Gunk or gel in coolant reservoir, tranny shudder

jwildman16 · **Posted:** Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:35 pm

I just acquired a 2005 Liberty CRD and it has a couple possible issues:

See the image below of my coolant reservoir. There is some sort of gel-looking gunk inside it that I have never seen on other vehicles. Can anyone here identify it and, more importantly, identify whether it is an issue that needs to be addressed?

Secondly, my transmission will sometimes shudder just a little bit as it gets into or out of gear. It happens only in two instances: just after reaching a full stop and just after letting up on the brakes from a full stop. There is a sticker in the engine compartment indicating the torque converter recall service has been completed.

Thanks for the help!

grywlfbg · **Posted:** Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:09 am

How many miles on your rig? Has the coolant ever been changed? It's listed as being 5 years 100k miles but after that point I had gelled coolant in my heater core - had to replace it. I'll be doing it every 3 years now. If there's anything besides liquid coolant in that tank I would replace the coolant ASAP.

For the transmission, this is a common problem. Replace the fluid and filters (there are 2) and have a dealer initiate a "quick learn" which causes the TCM (Transmission computer) to relearn all the solenoids and valve pressures. I had to change the fluid twice to get the symptoms to go away completely.

Billwill · **Posted:** Tue Jun 05, 2012 3:16 am

You should drain the coolant and replace....make sure you use only HOAT coolant....you do not know what the previous owner used. It is quite a complex procedure to flush and re-fill the cooling system correctly on the CRD.....there are several posts on this Forum on how to do it properly....use the Search function.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Tue Jun 05, 2012 8:26 am

I'd pull that tank and clean the gunk out. See my post at viewtopic.php?f=5&t=66774&p=735880&hilit=+coolant#p735880 for hose routing. To remove the tank on cold engine, remove cap, open radiator drain on lower left of radiator (2cm off a 10mm allen wrench fits inside the drain fitting and makes undoing it easy) and drain enough to empty tank; undo the 2 firewall bolts; slide the tank slightly forward off the metal base (when putting back on the tank can just sit on top of this base); remove the low coolant sensor wire on the bottom; remove hoses during this process as convenient; clean tank and reinstall.

Looks to me like someone did not use HOAT (Mopar, Xerex G-05, Ford equivalent) antifreeze or if they did it's way out of date so I'd completely drain/flush the system. NOTE just draining will not remove all the old antifeeze, you either need to have the system flushed or do multiple drains and refillls to get ALL the old antifreeze out. See my posts (including the embedded link) at viewtopic.php?f=5&t=64339&p=711030&hilit=zerex#p711030 on how to do this. A 50/50 antifreeze/water mix requires about 1.6 gallons of HOAT (add undiluted to system then complete fill with water, it will mix as you drive)

2 added thoughts:
1. demineralized water is good to use and cheap by the gallon at any grocery store
2. probably would be a good idea to pull both heater hoses and GENTLY use a hose to flush the heater core to remove any gelled coolant from it. FYI our heater system has no valve in the coolant lines so there is not real need to set the heat to hot.

jwildman16 · **Posted:** Tue Jun 05, 2012 10:56 am

Thanks for the responses; it's a huge help. I searched for about an hour last night, but couldn't find any posts related to gelled coolant in the reservoir.

@grywlfbg: I have 80k miles on it (just bought it at 78k in Chicago and drove home to Denver area). I'll look into the transmission drain and fill procedure when I have more time tomorrow night, but do you know offhand what kind of time and money commitment that takes to do it myself? I've changed oil and diff fluids before, but never the tranny. For the "quick learn", I am assuming that's something only a Jeep dealer can perform. How much can I expect to pay for that?

@papaindigo: Thanks for all the info. For the coolant system, same question as above - What's the time/money commitment for several drains/refills to flush the system vs. having a shop flush it for me? This morning, I could have sworn there was a comment about flushing a solvent through the system... Any thoughts on that? Otherwise, I'll just go with distilled water until it comes out clear. Your linked post says this may take about 6 cycles - How much distilled water will I need for that?

Thanks again!

papaindigo · **Posted:** Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:59 pm

jwildman16 - my son, stoutdog, did the repeated drain and refill cycle to get rid of incorrect coolant and his recollection is it took about an afternoon and on the order of 12-15 gallons of demineralized water (ca. 2 gallons per cycle and IIRC the cost per gallon was like $0.50). A cooling system flushing compound won't hurt although how much cleaning of that stuff it will do I have no opinion but go ahead and give it a shot. So bottom line I'd say, including removal and cleaning of the coolant tank and a light flush of the heater core, you are looking at something on the order of $40 including water, HOAT antifreeze, and flush chemical plus 4-5 hrs of your time. I have no clue what a shop would charge of how good a job they would do all I can say is the FSM system flush process looks challenging.

As an aside, as I've not yet tried this, I'm reasonably sure the Prestone flush and fill kit (http://www.prestone.com/products/print/461?popup=1) can be used if you treat the coolant tank cap as the radiator cap. If so you are looking at under $10 for the kit, a few minutes flushing with a hose, and maybe 2 drain and refill cycles to get most of the tap water out of the system. Total cost somewhat less than above and time cut by 50%.

Like I said, I've not tried the Prestone kit but I have one and will do so and post the results when I get around to doing it.

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

Anyone with a dealer scan tool (DRB or Starscan) could run the trans quicklearn for you. Most will charge about $100 for this service and it takes roughly 2 minutes to complete. That works out to a very nice hourly rate for a dealership. Hope you can get the CRD in good form soon.

jwildman16 · **Posted:** Tue Jun 05, 2012 4:40 pm

While I think I could handle a transmission drain and fill with no problems, I'm not very knowledgable in this area. If the shudder is caused by the infamous torque converter problem, how does the tranny flush affect that? Do the TC and transmission share fluid? Would I be wasting my time with the tranny flush if the problem is stemming from the TC?

The shudder I experience only happens as I described (from a dead stop), not while applying the throttle at higher speeds as I've read others reporting, but I have not towed anything yet, so it hasn't been under load. I did, however, go to the mountains this weekend and had no issues accelerating up a steep grade in top gear at anywhere from 55-70 MPH.

On a related note, if I did decide to replace the TC with a Sun Coast unit, what supplier would you recommend? The last related post I've read so far listed the price at about $350 (it was from several years ago), but the Sun Coast website shows $695...

CATCRD · **Posted:** Tue Jun 05, 2012 4:54 pm

jwildman16 wrote:

The shudder I experience only happens as I described (from a dead stop), not while applying the throttle at higher speeds as I've read others reporting, but I have not towed anything yet, so it hasn't been under load. I did, however, go to the mountains this weekend and had no issues accelerating up a steep grade in top gear at anywhere from 55-70 MPH.
.

TC shudder doesn't usually happen at a dead stop, because the TC is not locked at this point. Does it feel like something is bogging down the engine and trying to stall it, or does it just feel like something in the drivetrain is clunking from slop or binding? If it's the second thing, see this thread for ideas viewtopic.php?f=5&t=69032

jwildman16 · **Posted:** Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:31 pm

CATCRD wrote:

TC shudder doesn't usually happen at a dead stop, because the TC is not locked at this point. Does it feel like something is bogging down the engine and trying to stall it, or does it just feel like something in the drivetrain is clunking from slop or binding? If it's the second thing, see this thread for ideas viewtopic.php?f=5&t=69032

To clarify, it's not at a dead stop; it happens just as I release the brakes.

Thanks. I'll keep an eye on that thread. I'm leaning heavily towards it being TC or tranny related as opposed to a U-joint issue due to the way it feels. It's hard to explain, but it feels like the issue is with first gear engaging/disengaging. So the TC could definitely be it; I wish putting the drive selector in "2" would force a second gear start so I could get a better idea. It does not feel like something is bogging down the engine, but it's also more of a shudder or hesitation than a clunking. The best way I can think to explain it is that it is like a couple quick slips of a clutch (softened feeling) rather than the less softened, harsher clunking of something like the U-joint.

Knowing that, would you guys still recommend the tranny flush?

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Tue Jun 05, 2012 6:52 pm

jwildman16 wrote:

To clarify, it's not at a dead stop; it happens just as I release the brakes.
Knowing that, would you guys still recommend the tranny flush?

AH HA your problem is a simple and cheap fix too :ROTFL:

What you just discribed is the slip joint on the front of the drive shaft binding

Drop the drive shaft and lube the splines coming out of the transfer case. While the shaft is out check or just replace the "U" joints :JEEPIN:

According to the schedule the transmission fluid is replaced at 62k so keep it on the list. As far as the quick learn you can just drive it normally and it will learn by it's self. There are other methodes too. One that Warp came up with is to drive in each gear selection for 20 seconds including reverse :CAMPING:

ibHenry · **Posted:** Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:52 am

Some where down the line someone used the wrong coolant, trans sounds like TC shudder.

grywlfbg · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:22 pm

If the TC was replaced with the updated "Euro spec" one then the TC is fine (Hopefully your dealer can look up the service history and determine that). You don't need a Suncoast. But yes, everything in the tranny shares the same fluid.

As for the tranny I had this EXACT same symptom. After a fluid change, drove about 100 miles, changed fluid and filters again and initiated quick learn, the problem went away. I'm not sure the extra fluid change was required - I just tried that first. When that didn't fix it I swapped the filters and used new fluid along w/ the quick learn. You could just try a fluid and filter change and quick learn.

Changing the fluid and filters is pretty easy but messy. There's no drain in the pan so you take a nice bath in red fluid as you're draining it. As GDE said you need someone w/ a scan tool to initiate the quick learn. If you're friendly w/ your dealer hopefully they'll just do it for you. I paid them to do the fluid and filter change so the quick learn was "free". I can't recall what they charged me for this - I'll try to remember to dig out my receipt when I get home.

jwildman16 · **Posted:** Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:22 pm

papaindigo wrote:

open radiator drain on lower left of radiator (2cm off a 10mm allen wrench fits inside the drain fitting and makes undoing it easy)

What does that drain opening look like? Is it rearward facing? I'm gonna pick up a 10mm Allen to cut as your other post suggested.

Gunk or gel in coolant reservoir, tranny shudder

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