CRD Puzzle SOLVED

geordi · **Posted:** Wed Sep 05, 2012 12:18 pm

wifes05crd wrote:

As a fairly new owner of our '05, how much black smoke is normal when putting your foot in it? After hard acceleration from dead stop (great fun), I look back and can see there is some smoke but it doesn't seem excessive and it doesn't continue. Its more like a one time event. We have GDE Eco Tune. Thanks for any comments.

That sounds about right. "Moderate" smoke, meaning not clogging the road behind you to where you can't see the traffic, and it goes away after you are up into third gear or so. Heavy smoke and low power (while floored) is an indication of over fueling and / or a stuck turbo that isn't delivering what the computer is asking for (and fueling for - hence the smoke)

With the GDE tune, both tunes are the same at WOT, and the fuel map is slightly exceeding the available air, which is why you get smoke. Even more fuel would just be wasted as smoke.

Smacker · **Posted:** Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:31 pm

Randy B wrote:

Glad to hear you got her fixed

Thanks, I have still been getting a p0299 about every 2-3 days and have been thinking about an Easy-Off Oven cleaner treatment to the exhaust side of the turbo. It seems to still hang up a bit. I was afraid my short trip to work would be detrimental to the CRD. 10 miles is not enough of a trip to actually get the engine warmed up let alone decarbonize the turbo. The wife used to run about 150 miles on her daily commute and run WOT up several mountains to hagerstown and it really worked well for her. Has anybody tried to clean their Garrett Turbo this way? I have read the TDI theads and it seems to work pretty well. Just wouldn't want to trash a turbo if I can help it.

Hoosier CRD · **Posted:** Thu Sep 06, 2012 5:32 am

...I have still been getting a p0299 about every 2-3 days and have been thinking about an Easy-Off Oven cleaner treatment to the exhaust side of the turbo. It seems to still hang up a bit... Has anybody tried to clean their Garrett Turbo this way? I have read the TDI theads and it seems to work pretty well. Just wouldn't want to trash a turbo if I can help it.[/quote]

I have heard about shops cleaning the vain assembly on 6.0 Liter Ford turbos but not the VW; they aren't in my wheelhouse very often. It sounds like it would involve an amount of turbo disassembly. Are you ready for a turbo jigsaw puzzle? Only you can fully know your mechanical aptitude and patience level. I'm on the record as a "No" on this one.

Hoosier CRD

racertracer · **Posted:** Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:33 am

Oven cleaner administered into the turbo from the exhaust side and left to work overnight will do a good job to clean it. You will need to remove the exhaust down pipe attached to the rear of the turbo in order to get to the cavity.

Smacker · **Posted:** Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:43 am

racertracer wrote:

Oven cleaner administered into the turbo from the exhaust side and left to work overnight will do a good job to clean it. You will need to remove the exhaust down pipe attached to the rear in order to get to the cavity.

Thats the plan I am thinking about...

Here is the TDI link: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php? ... stcount=48

I read in a thread talking about this procedure there is a 95% success rate on cleaning up a fouled VGT. We'll see :banghead:

racertracer · **Posted:** Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:51 am

Or you could always give the turbo a good work out with an Italian turbo tune up.

Note: Don't be a girly man when giving the turbo a work out, hit the gas peddle hard while going up a steep hill on an already hot engine, try to reach 3700 RPMs on the tachometer.

Remember, the engine must already be HOT before the turbo tune up, the hotter the better, so drive it around for while and allow the temperature gauge to reach optimal operating temperature.

Turn off the engine light on the dash and redo it until the turbo fully responds.

Again, don't be a girly man when pushing the turbo in order to clean it. This procedure works.

ChooChooman74 · **Posted:** Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:16 am

racertracer wrote:

Or you could always give the turbo a good work out with an Italian turbo tune up.

Note: Don't be a girly man when giving the turbo a work out, hit the gas peddle hard while going up a steep hill on an already hot engine, try to reach 3700 RPMs on the tachometer.

Remember, the engine must already be HOT before the turbo tune up, the hotter the better, so drive it around for while and allow the temperature gauge to reach optimal operating temperature.

Turn off the engine light on the dash and redo it until the turbo fully responds.

Again, don't be a girly man when pushing the turbo in order to clean it. This procedure works.

Tried that on mine. Due to the overboost condition, once the ECU appears to cut the power so that the boost does not go over 22.4 PSI (pressure from TORQUE software). Seems to max out about 3000 RPM (limp mode).

geordi · **Posted:** Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:12 pm

You have to clear the limp mode by rebooting the engine, then you can do it again. You can also clear the code each time, but I don't know if that will clear the limp mode too - I always just reboot the computer when it does that to me.

ChooChooman74 · **Posted:** Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:36 pm

geordi wrote:

You have to clear the limp mode by rebooting the engine, then you can do it again. You can also clear the code each time, but I don't know if that will clear the limp mode too - I always just reboot the computer when it does that to me.

Tried it again. No codes. Once boost got to 20, CEL. Then the engine will cut power to not go over 22.4. The Jeep will do 80. BUT not at a fast pace. It will go over 3000 rpms, but at light throttle. Just seems that the ECU will cut fuel to not overboost.

Turbo is coming off tomorrow. I will have more details by Saturday.

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racertracer · **Posted:** Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:13 pm

I think you have a hole in your boost hoses, check them over real good.

ChooChooman74 · **Posted:** Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:51 pm

racertracer wrote:

I think you have a hole in your boost hoses, check them over real good.

Wouldn't I have an underboost condition if I had a hole? Right now, facts are overboost and my linkage doesn't move for my vanes. As soon as my boost is over 20psi, i start losing power. I have thoroughly inspected the turbo side hose. This weekend, I will also inspect the intake side hose. I will know more Friday evening. Striperman may stop by after work, but either way, I will know more at that time.

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geordi · **Posted:** Thu Sep 06, 2012 6:34 pm

Classic signs of overboost, which you suspect. I'm surprised the computer isn't throwing a code with the limp mode, but that is one of my KEY complaints about the Mopar computer system - It has multiple scenarios where it will limp mode you... And not bother to tell you why.

You could also be having a dying MAF sensor (if it is plugged in) because that can also cause a no-code limp. Most likely however is the turbo is not adjusting the vanes to release the boost. You might need to actually remove it entirely and bench clean it if it won't release the VNT arm for you with an Italian tune up.

The carbon forms coal-like deposits that can be VERY hard (Dude - diamonds are carbon, yo) and if it builds up sufficiently... It will take more physical abuse than the vacuum arm can deliver to crack it loose.

Have you tried pulling the vacuum hose from the turbo while the engine is idling? At idle, the vanes should be fully closed to keep the turbo spinning. Pulling the vac hose, the vanes will default to the fully open position as the vacuum motor relaxes. If it doesn't move about 1/2" or so and you hear the exhaust note change... They are definitely stuck.

To get an overboost, you have to have an abundance of vacuum that doesn't release, OR the vanes had to seize in the closed position. You might also check that little paper filter on the vacuum modulator, it could be clogged up, or the vacuum modulator itself might not be releasing the vac when commanded to - Look at these if the pull-the-vac-line test shows the arm move a lot.

ChooChooman74 · **Posted:** Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:31 pm

Turbo removed. Vanes frozen in the full vacuum position. More to come.

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ChooChooman74 · **Posted:** Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:37 pm

Found the problem. A vane bypassed another vane.

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geordi · **Posted:** Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:17 pm

You sure that didn't happen while you were disassembling it? That seems awfully strange and rare... And something that could potentially happen again if you put this back with all the same parts.

Unfortunately, I've already sold the VNT section of my bad turbo (that was the bad center cartridge that the rebuild failed on)
or I would be happy to send it your way. Maybe send a message to Hammy and ask him about selling the scrap turbo he will have soon? His turbo failure is also the center cartridge, so the VNT should be perfectly OK to reuse.

Smacker · **Posted:** Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:45 pm

Follow up on original p0299 under boost condition..

Pulled the down pipe off the turbo and sprayed with Easy Off heavy duty oven cleaner.
Let set while I had lunch. Sprayed again and spun turbo with gloved finger and put back together. An hour later I drove to a convention 270 miles of WOT anytime I could get away with it. So far I have not seen the CEL in 3 weeks and she runs great! :pepper:

Randy B · **Posted:** Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:55 am

Smacker wrote:

Follow up on original p0299 under boost condition..

Pulled the down pipe off the turbo and sprayed with Easy Off heavy duty oven cleaner.
Let set while I had lunch. Sprayed again and spun turbo with gloved finger and put back together. An hour later I drove to a convention 270 miles of WOT anytime I could get away with it. So far I have not seen the CEL in 3 weeks and she runs great! :pepper:

Sound like you need to keep up on the hot wide open throttle runs. When ever I have mine out, after she is up to operating temp I will do several wide open throttle runs. I like what you used, oven cleaner. Since I do heating and a/c work, if I had to do that I would use soot cleaner that I use on oil fired boilers at work. Glad to hear you got her fixed.

Smacker · **Posted:** Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:17 am

Randy B wrote:

Smacker wrote:

Follow up on original p0299 under boost condition..

Pulled the down pipe off the turbo and sprayed with Easy Off heavy duty oven cleaner.
Let set while I had lunch. Sprayed again and spun turbo with gloved finger and put back together. An hour later I drove to a convention 270 miles of WOT anytime I could get away with it. So far I have not seen the CEL in 3 weeks and she runs great! :pepper:

Sound like you need to keep up on the hot wide open throttle runs. When ever I have mine out, after she is up to operating temp I will do several wide open throttle runs. I like what you used, oven cleaner. Since I do heating and a/c work, if I had to do that I would use soot cleaner that I use on oil fired boilers at work. Glad to hear you got her fixed.

I Concurr, Thanks....

CRD Puzzle SOLVED

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