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 Post subject: 545RFE Transmission Fluid Change ATF+4
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 1:05 am 
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Decided to change my transmission fluid and filters. Our CRD is just short of 70K miles. Read in the 2006 service manual that it would take 5 quarts of ATF+4 fluid. The 1st pain I encountered was the lack of a drain-plug. As Warp might say....bean counters !! How stupid is that? In order to drain it you have to spill it ! So I'd already bought a B&M drain plug kit from O'Rielly's. Got the WIX filter kit from Amazon and went to work. The pan was glued on with sealant and the Wix kit came with a rubber seal. After I removed all the sealant glue and installed both new filters, I tightened down all the pan seal bolts.

Since I was able to catch most of the used fluid in my oil drain pan (and it seemed very full) I decided to measure it. 1st I filled up a used 1 gallon milk jug and there was still a lot in the pan. So I poured in 4 new quarts into the tranny dipstick tube. I now had some 1qt. bottles to pour the remaining fluid in my oil drain pan into. Filled the 1st, then the 2nd and still had some in the pan. I ended up with 6.5+ quarts !! Way over the service manual's volume of 5 quarts. So I poured in the 5th new quart & inserted the dip stick....Started the engine & the fluid didn't even show on the stick. Added the 6th quart (I had bought 1 extra qt. to have on hand), this brought it up to the "Minimum". Fluid level is to be checked, warm & tranny in park.

Since I live way out of town, I was in a pickle....fluid level too low to drive and I'd used my "extra" quart. Fortunately a neighbor was in town and was able to pick up a couple of quarts for me.

Conclusion, our 2006 Liberty CRD with the 545RFE transmission takes 6.5+ quarts of ATF+4 transmission fluid for a pan fluid & filters change.

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 Post subject: Re: 545RFE Transmission Fluid Change ATF+4
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 2:24 am 
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That is why I just normally buy a case since it is cheaper that way and I know I will end up using it all eventually.

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 Post subject: Re: 545RFE Transmission Fluid Change ATF+4
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 2:42 am 
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You will potentially end up with as much as 9 quarts for a change, check it again after a day or two of driving. You technically COULD have driven it with the 6 quarts added, and been OK, but the performance would have been interesting.

Check the transmission with the engine at full operating temperature and idling in neutral - AFTER putting the selector into each gear option for about 3-5 seconds. The flow in neutral is much higher than in park, so any air will be quickly deposited back in the pan where you will see the lower level. If you drained the entire transmission (or left it sitting overnight while dripping on an incline) you could approach the maximum of like 16 quarts that includes the torque converter. You wouldn't ever get *all* of it out with just a regular change, but people that have left it overnight (myself included) have gotten up to the 9 quart mark before the thing was properly filled.

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 Post subject: Re: 545RFE Transmission Fluid Change ATF+4
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:54 am 
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On mine, i had it on ramps and I let it sit for an hour while I cleaned the pan and stuff. IIRC, it took about 9 qts to fill. Glad I got a case.

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Last edited by ChooChooman74 on Sun Sep 16, 2012 9:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 545RFE Transmission Fluid Change ATF+4
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:20 am 
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I agree the filter service refill amount can vary depending on how long you let it sit, and whether or not your running a second transmission cooler. Mine took 7 litres, just over 7 quarts. I always have at least 8 litres on hand for this service - regardless of the Service Manual.


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 Post subject: Re: 545RFE Transmission Fluid Change ATF+4
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 2:46 pm 
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Drive for several miles and check the level with the engine running, add the amount needed.
Then drive some more and again check with the engine running. Good project for weekend shopping, bring extra fluid and a funnel along with shop towels and hand cleaner.
After doing my Suncoast/Transgo along with the Extra Deep PML pan, I added 17 1/2 Qts of ATF+4 before I was done adding fluid.
Toss the gasket, it was put there for those who won't use silicone sealant.
Unless you work for a US Honda factory who do not permit silicone on site, I see no reason to use the gasket. Check your steel pan for dimpling of the bolt holes and beat them flat with a small hammer, one thing I don't miss with my PML pan.

It would be a good idea to do a slow learn if you have let any fluid drain out of your valve body.
Especially if you are in the Ram or GC TCM training mode.

Cheers

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 Post subject: Re: 545RFE Transmission Fluid Change ATF+4
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:59 pm 
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I just changed my fluid and filters as well. I pulled right at 9 quarts out. Am I correct in saying that the fluid is good as long as it is mid way between the middle dots on the dipstick? When I check it, the fluid doesn't reach all the way up to the "hot" indicator with the 2 small dots around the word "hot". It is half way between the "cold" and "hot" indicators. Can anyone shed any light on the drain back issue with this transmission? I believe I am suffering from it. When I check my fluid cold.....it is waaaaay past the hot mark on the dipstick. As soon as I get it warmed up and check it proper....it is right in the middle between cold and hot. Also.....whenever I start it up for the first time of the day (or after sitting for several hours) and put it in gear without letting it idle for 10 seconds or so it doesn't want to go when I hit the gas pedal. It feels really sluggish for the first few seconds trying to drive it. If I start it, let it idle for about 10 seconds, and then put it in gear all is well. What causes this drain back issue and is it harmful to the transmission if it is not fixed quickly?

Thanks, Jim

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 Post subject: Re: 545RFE Transmission Fluid Change ATF+4
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:07 pm 
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warp2diesel wrote:

Unless you work for a US Honda factory who do not permit silicone on site, Cheers

Find that funny as honda does not use gaskets on the trans pans or engine oil pans.I know I change honda 2.4 oil pans left and right at work.It's such a bad issue with the oil plug threads to pull out that the local honda dealership stocks like 25 or so at all times.

As far as checking the trans fluid to start get it about in-between the hot/cold marks then take and drive for 30mins min then check again.It can take well over 20mins of driving in moderate weather before the trans is actually at operating temps,alot longer when it's below freezing.


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 Post subject: Re: 545RFE Transmission Fluid Change ATF+4
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:15 pm 
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tjkj2002 wrote:
warp2diesel wrote:

Unless you work for a US Honda factory who do not permit silicone on site, Cheers

Find that funny as honda does not use gaskets on the trans pans or engine oil pans.I know I change honda 2.4 oil pans left and right at work.It's such a bad issue with the oil plug threads to pull out that the local honda dealership stocks like 25 or so at all times.

As far as checking the trans fluid to start get it about in-between the hot/cold marks then take and drive for 30mins min then check again.It can take well over 20mins of driving in moderate weather before the trans is actually at operating temps,alot longer when it's below freezing.


To reprogram a VFD in a Honda Plant waste water pretreatment. My Employer had to prove they have $1 million insurance policy, I had to pass a drug test on site, and sign documents stating I did not have silicone in my tool box. Because it might make the paint streak.
All the engines and transmissions are assembled miles away from the paint line.

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 Post subject: Re: 545RFE Transmission Fluid Change ATF+4
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:21 pm 
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warp2diesel wrote:
tjkj2002 wrote:
warp2diesel wrote:

Unless you work for a US Honda factory who do not permit silicone on site, Cheers

Find that funny as honda does not use gaskets on the trans pans or engine oil pans.I know I change honda 2.4 oil pans left and right at work.It's such a bad issue with the oil plug threads to pull out that the local honda dealership stocks like 25 or so at all times.

As far as checking the trans fluid to start get it about in-between the hot/cold marks then take and drive for 30mins min then check again.It can take well over 20mins of driving in moderate weather before the trans is actually at operating temps,alot longer when it's below freezing.


To reprogram a VFD in a Honda Plant waste water pretreatment. My Employer had to prove they have $1 million insurance policy, I had to pass a drug test on site, and sign documents stating I did not have silicone in my tool box. Because it might make the paint streak.
All the engines and transmissions are assembled miles away from the paint line.

For painting I can understand,don't want fish-eyes.When I worked at the bodyshop stuff like hand lotion,fast food,any type of tire shine,and any type of protectant like armorall was strictly forbidden in the bodyshop.Should have seen when the head painter went off on one of the saleman(a woman) came back into the bodyshop and smelled like she poured about 2 gallons of purfume on herself,I was rolling on the floor for about a hour.She quit that day.


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 Post subject: Re: 545RFE Transmission Fluid Change ATF+4
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:22 am 
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kissfan79 - re drain back issue. It's a not uncommon issue with automatic transmisions or DCJ, I experienced it as far back as a generation 1 Plymouth minivan. In general the cause is over a period of time, usually about 8 hrs, fluid drains out of the transmission body passages and partially out of the torque convertor into the transmission pan so when the vehicle is started and the transmission placed in gear it takes a noticable period of time for the tranny system to pump enough fluid for the tranny to function properly. Most systems have some sort of check valve to prevent this from happening. In the 5-45RFE transmission that check valve is apparently in 1, don't ask me which, of the 2 internal transmission filters. Early in KJ production there was apparently a bad batch of OEM filters, hence lots of drain back problems, and some of those filters are still out there for cheap on eBay.

Solutions, assuming you have drain back and not just low fluid:
1. live with it - I did for like 20K miles before having my SunCoast TC and Transgo kit installed. It's harmless but you do have to remember after the vehicle sits a while to crank it up; shift into neutral; hold idle at about 1500 for 10-15 seconds before driving off. 99%+ of the time that works but if when driving off the tranny doesn't immediately engage (NOTE I never really had the problem in reverse only drive) be sure to pop it into neutral and idle a bit longer. If you don't do this cycle you may drive about 100' get a horribly rough engine stall which may or may not throw a CEL. The CEL goes away after about 5-10 good starts.
2. replace the filters being sure they are seated properly.
3. maybe install a tranny cooler return line check valve per viewtopic.php?f=98&t=55110

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 Post subject: Re: 545RFE Transmission Fluid Change ATF+4
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:26 pm 
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Papaindigo,
Thanks for the reply. I am fine with living with it for the time being. I realize that at some point I'll have to replace the torque converter and I'll address it then as long as it causes no harm now. I just changed the filters the other day (that little seal ring for the larger filter was a pain in the butt to get out and put in). Even with new filters it does it. As long as I idle for a few seconds on the first start up of the say or after several hours of sitting.....it seems to be fine. What causes that harsh stall that you were referring to? I have had an instance or 2 of backing up out of the driveway in the past without idling for long enough that when I got to the end of the driveway I heard a nasty sound and the idle dropped of a second but it never stalled.

Jim

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 Post subject: Re: 545RFE Transmission Fluid Change ATF+4
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 1:46 pm 
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Finally got around to changing my transmission fluid and filters. I guess I'm confused about all the huge numbers listed here. I pulled out 5 Liters and I put 5 Liters back in (exactly one 5 liter jug of ATF+4 from the IDParts.com site). I ordered plenty extra after reading this thread, but didn't have to use any of it (for this... still using it for the other Jeep and for the t-case). And I even let mine drain over night (snapped the heads off a couple of the pan bolts and had to run to Harbor Freight in the morning for reverse thread bits to extract the old bolts).

Before putting things back together, I installed a drain plug ($5 at Advance) in the side of the pan at the lowest point so I can drain the fluid properly next time (not by "hoping for the best" when you loosen the pan). I also plan on changing the fluid at more frequent intervals (though not always the filters, so no need to remove the pan). The threaded interior part of the plug could also be used to easily screw in a temperature probe, so I may use it for that as well.

I was kind of surprised by how clean the old fluid was, and I was happy to see no metal in the pan, other than a very minimal powder/sludge stuck to the magnet. I also added a second magnet (neodymium) in the pan.

It was pretty comical just how far the dipstick was sticking down into the pan area (much, much deeper than the pan allows for), and I now understand why my transmission dipstick is always dislodged and sticking out under the hood. As suggested by others, I had trimmed a bit off the end a couple months ago, but after seeing just how far it sticks down, I got a little more aggressive with the trimming.

So this takes me to the far end of changing fluids on the CRD. I've now done oil, t-case, front/rear diffs, and transmission. Thanks to all who post here and make it possible for me to do this stuff.

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 Post subject: Re: 545RFE Transmission Fluid Change ATF+4
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 1:56 pm 
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If you remove all the bolts but the four corners, loosen the four corners, whack the pan a couple times with a rubber or plastic mallet to break the RTV, slice the remaining with a sharp knife, and then *almost* fully remove two bolts on one side you can do a pretty clean drain every time. It's a little easier on pans that haven't been RTV'ed (so, everything not Chrysler ;) ) but the rubber mallet generally does the job. Sometimes running a plastic prybar ( like you use for interior panels) around works better than the knife. Just not a screwdriver or something beefy where you might bend the pan or scar the transmission flange.

Image

Usually it works best on a narrow dimension of the pan, but in this case I had the passenger side of the Jeep on a jack so the whole thing was tilted to the driver's side. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: 545RFE Transmission Fluid Change ATF+4
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 1:40 pm 
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thesameguy wrote:
If you remove all the bolts but the four corners, loosen the four corners, whack the pan a couple times with a rubber or plastic mallet to break the RTV, slice the remaining with a sharp knife, and then *almost* fully remove two bolts on one side you can do a pretty clean drain every time. It's a little easier on pans that haven't been RTV'ed (so, everything not Chrysler ;) ) but the rubber mallet generally does the job. Sometimes running a plastic prybar ( like you use for interior panels) around works better than the knife. Just not a screwdriver or something beefy where you might bend the pan or scar the transmission flange.

Usually it works best on a narrow dimension of the pan, but in this case I had the passenger side of the Jeep on a jack so the whole thing was tilted to the driver's side. ;)


Yeah, but having a quarter inch drain hole with a plug is waaaaay easier; you can drain it, then just take the pan off. :wink: I had mine on ramps when I did it, and just made sure to "crack it open" toward the low point at the back and it wasn't horrible, but you still have to have a huge pan "just in case." With the drain plug I can now go to a modest size bucket for draining (though you do still need something to catch drips from the whole pan area once the pan is off).

Even being super careful, when the fluid had stopped running and it was time to actually drop the pan (obviously there will still be fluid in it), it slipped out of my hand and the large quantity of fluid in the deep part of the pan sloshed all over the driveway. :x Grrrr.

I just received my 3-in-1 temp gauge and I'm hoping to get some time this week to see if the transmission temp probe will simply thread into the plug I installed the pan (fingers crossed).

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 Post subject: Re: 545RFE Transmission Fluid Change ATF+4
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:13 pm 
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Totally agreed, drain plug is always superior - but not having one ain't so bad. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: 545RFE Transmission Fluid Change ATF+4
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:32 pm 
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Underbed storage containers are good for catching tranny fluid. You can get them bigger than the pan so no problems with spillage. Hey, you need to get into that virgin pan at least once to install the plug.

They're also good for catching coolant if you want to drain it by pulling the lower hose.


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 Post subject: Re: 545RFE Transmission Fluid Change ATF+4
PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:58 am 
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Hi all,

Just adding my 2 cents, sorry for bumping an old thread. Bought my CRD Limited with 130K miles a year ago and couldn't make any sense of the transmission oil dipstick readings. No matter what and how I tried, this ridiculously long (3ft?) thing came out with transmission fluid smeared all over its length. Being a noob that I am, I concluded that the previous owner had overfilled the transmission while changing fluid before the sale (the fluid got healthy reddish tint to it). Recently since time came to change the fluid and filters per maintenance schedule, I decided to bite the bullet and change everything to get out of the unknown. I dropped the pan into the big under-the-bed plastic storage box from Walmart (thanks for the hint Ceearedeedriver!). It so happened that I got busy at work and the transmission was left draining slowly for almost a week with front of the vehicle raised on jackstands. When I got back to working on the vehicle, I measured full 8 quarts (!) of drained old fluid (as compared to what? 5 quarts per service manual?). This further convinced me that the transmission was hugely overfilled (boy, was I wrong!). Installed two new filters and pan and started adding fresh fluid quart by quart. Pretty quickly I realized that the fluid smeared all over the dipstick got collected from the walls of the dipstick insertion tube and had nothing to do with oil level in the pan. Discarding my previous overfill theory, I got adventurous and continued to add fluid. Finally three trips to local Advance Auto for extra quart bottles later, I started seeing actual fluid level (warmed up transmission, engine running, etc.). In the end it took 10 quarts to bring the level to norm! Me getting adventurous with adding fluid was helped by the fact that during the draining week I ordered this weld-in drain plug from Amazon

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B019X ... UTF8&psc=1

and got friendly local mechanic to TIG-weld it into my pan for 20 bucks. I agree with thesameguy above, that drain plug is not an absolute must have for safely dropping the pan. However having the plug installed makes it possible to drain the excess of the fluid with minimal drama in case of an accidental overfill. And what would be an alternative without the drain plug? Prying off the just-reinstalled oil pan :furious: ? In my previous life I once spent several hours sucking the excessive oil out of an overfilled engine through the dipstick tube using a thin hose and an enema, but trust me, that was no fun at all!

Message to myself: while servicing the transmission, measure the drained fluid volume and add at least the same amount of fresh stuff.

Cheers,
Alex

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