Any Interest in a Timing Belt Get Together?

fatweasel · **Posted:** Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:54 pm

It seems there are several of us with pending timing belt replacement looming before us. I for one have not found a local mechanic willing or able to take the job. Not 100% confident that I can complete the job myself without supervision.

Was wondering what folks thought about organizing a timing belt party where we could show up in a centralized location with our own parts and maybe convince/bribe some more knowledgeable forum members to join us and supervise (and maybe bring their Miller tools).

That is about as much thought as I have put into it at this point.

MRausch82 · **Posted:** Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:39 pm

fatweasel wrote:

It seems there are several of us with pending timing belt replacement looming before us. I for one have not found a local mechanic willing or able to take the job. Not 100% confident that I can complete the job myself without supervision.

Was wondering what folks thought about organizing a timing belt party where we could show up in a centralized location with our own parts and maybe convince/bribe some more knowledgeable forum members to join us and supervise (and maybe bring their Miller tools).

That is about as much thought as I have put into it at this point.

Do it out here in PA. I have all of the tools coming as I just purchased them. I can also get great deals on the OE Mopar parts if need be.

mark2m · **Posted:** Fri Oct 19, 2012 6:41 pm

My timing belt is coming due soon also. It does sound like a few of us maybe too. I'm looking at getting the parts together for the timing belt change. Any group buys possible to get everyone going?

Mark

SLS · **Posted:** Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:12 pm

MRausch82 wrote:

fatweasel wrote:

It seems there are several of us with pending timing belt replacement looming before us. I for one have not found a local mechanic willing or able to take the job. Not 100% confident that I can complete the job myself without supervision.

Was wondering what folks thought about organizing a timing belt party where we could show up in a centralized location with our own parts and maybe convince/bribe some more knowledgeable forum members to join us and supervise (and maybe bring their Miller tools).

That is about as much thought as I have put into it at this point.

Do it out here in PA. I have all of the tools coming as I just purchased them. I can also get great deals on the OE Mopar parts if need be.

I'm about 4.5 to 5 hrs from Westport, PA and I have all my parts. But don't have a good garage to do the work in here in upstate NY.

MRausch82 · **Posted:** Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:45 pm

SLS wrote:

MRausch82 wrote:

fatweasel wrote:

It seems there are several of us with pending timing belt replacement looming before us. I for one have not found a local mechanic willing or able to take the job. Not 100% confident that I can complete the job myself without supervision.

Was wondering what folks thought about organizing a timing belt party where we could show up in a centralized location with our own parts and maybe convince/bribe some more knowledgeable forum members to join us and supervise (and maybe bring their Miller tools).

That is about as much thought as I have put into it at this point.

Do it out here in PA. I have all of the tools coming as I just purchased them. I can also get great deals on the OE Mopar parts if need be.

I'm about 4.5 to 5 hrs from Westport, PA and I have all my parts. But don't have a good garage to do the work in here in upstate NY.

I have a one car garage, however, I have done motor swaps, engine rebuilds, timing belts (on non CRD's) in there, so I would think a CRD timing belt could be done in there...

painemann · **Joined:** Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:02 pm **Posts:** 607

I'm no pro at this but I did do mine!
I would be willing to help out if it wasn't too fast and time premited, I have been working a lot!

MRausch82 · **Posted:** Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:41 pm

A group buy may be an idea. If I get a list of what parts who wants, that is, if we are going to meet here or somewhere, I can see about pricing and ordering from one of my Mopar suppliers.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:10 pm

For what it's worth stoutdog and I will be doing just a TB replacement on both our CRDs, based on age not miles, in the next month or so. No date set yet but if anyone wants to drop by to watch or get advice and borrow tools on-site just drop me a PM or email and we will figure out timing.

geordi · **Posted:** Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:24 pm

Don't forget - anywhere on the East Coast, I'm happy to help / instruct / do the whole job if you want. Doing the timing belt (and now the water pump too) has sadly become far too easy compared to the amount of tearing down I had to do on my own CRD motor.

Trying to solve that tapping debacle, I tore it down and built it back to running (with open timing cover) about 5 times. The belt gig itself is about a 2.5-3hr job for me, possibly even faster now.

kjjet · **Posted:** Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:05 pm

I have talked with Mike about the subject. I have a aircraft hangar full of tools, if the timing was correct i could do. Or help. The job is easy. Just takes a little time. I dont like to rush things. Removing the fan is worst part. Do you guys want to replace the water pumps also. That doubles the time. If your before 100k, I dont think its needed yet. Just my thoughts. I plan on doing mine at my 2nd belt change.

geordi · **Posted:** Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:33 am

Doing the water pump doesn't double the time at all. Maybe another 45 minutes to an hour, nothing more. Just pull the cams, the front cover, and the front of the water pump. Forget the back, it is a solid housing with no moving parts, so it doesn't need to be replaced.

Also, the timing procedure in the book has you draining the AC system and removing the radiator. Neither is actually required.

kjjet · **Posted:** Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:53 am

Like i said i dont like to rush things. I also do not remove or drain the air-conditioning or radiator. I do loosen the radiator to create room to get the fan and shroud out. Now... if the water pump is to be changed all the radiator coolant will need drained. Yes... the water pump is two piece constructed you could replace the outer 1/2 only and save time??? (your choice) I have heard bad things about the aftermarket crown, so i would go with OEM. But...if your only at or prior to 100k i would not touch it. At least thats my thoughts on the water pump. Anyone have a original water pump falure prior to 200k? Most engines the water pump starts to leak prior to failure, giving time to replace. My friends Cummons has 275k with the original pump. Ok.. but this is a Jeep CRD.

taroo · **Joined:** Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:14 pm **Posts:** 292

Whoo...did I hear someone say they were going to change the TB based on age and not mieage? I have a 2005 (purchased June 2005) with 65k miles. Should I give a TB change based on the age serious consideration?

Goglio704 · **Posted:** Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:20 pm

taroo wrote:

Whoo...did I hear someone say they were going to change the TB based on age and not mieage? I have a 2005 (purchased June 2005) with 65k miles. Should I give a TB change based on the age serious consideration?

My opinion, and that is all it is, I wouldn't change it until 80 or 90k regardless of age. If your mileage is low due to a lot of short trips, then it might be worthwhile to do it early. If you live up north and are starting the thing in extreme cold, then it might be worthwhile to do it early.

Here in Tennessee, I pushed mine to 109k during warm weather, but if I hit 100k heading into Fall and Winter, I wouldn't take the chance. My rationale is that anything rubber or plastic is more brittle when cold. Also, everything driven by the belt would require more effort in the cold.

Like I said, this is opinion only. I don't remember reading about any failures prior to 95k or so. Anybody know of any?

Later edit:

The 6 year replacement regardless of mileage is what Gates recommends. I honestly thought that was a little OCD, but apparently not. Time will tell if somebody shows up on here in a year or two with a broken belt at low miles.

docwylie · **Joined:** Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:52 pm **Posts:** 7

Just had mine off today. Removed the cover after removing everything in front to get to the harmonic balancer. How many miles do most of you have on your timing belts? Our CRD now has 129,000 when the balancer went out. While investigating the noise generated by the toasted harmonic balancer, we bought the new belt since we were in the area and it would be foolish to not replace the belt after putting all the labor into just getting in the vicinity. Soooooo when we found the harmonic balance rubber innards gone, dealer only item and at least 5 day shipment time, and 300.00 plus smackeroos, we knocked rest of balancer out of crankshaft pulley, put it back on and I just got in from 100 mile round trip. The engine ran and idled smoother with the balancer off than when it was on engine. I know it was engineered with a harmonic balancer on the crank for a reason, just don't know what reason. The old belt is pristeen so we put timing cover back on and closed her up. Marking belt on timing gears and counting gear notches is imperative to confirm timing marks on those gears involved. Rest is idler pulleys and tension pulley.

docwylie

racertracer · **Posted:** Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:45 am

docwylie wrote:

The old belt is pristeen so we put timing cover back on and closed her up.

Oh boy, this is going to be trouble.

MRausch82 · **Posted:** Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:11 am

docwylie wrote:

Just had mine off today. Removed the cover after removing everything in front to get to the harmonic balancer. How many miles do most of you have on your timing belts? Our CRD now has 129,000 when the balancer went out. While investigating the noise generated by the toasted harmonic balancer, we bought the new belt since we were in the area and it would be foolish to not replace the belt after putting all the labor into just getting in the vicinity. Soooooo when we found the harmonic balance rubber innards gone, dealer only item and at least 5 day shipment time, and 300.00 plus smackeroos, we knocked rest of balancer out of crankshaft pulley, put it back on and I just got in from 100 mile round trip. The engine ran and idled smoother with the balancer off than when it was on engine. I know it was engineered with a harmonic balancer on the crank for a reason, just don't know what reason. The old belt is pristeen so we put timing cover back on and closed her up. Marking belt on timing gears and counting gear notches is imperative to confirm timing marks on those gears involved. Rest is idler pulleys and tension pulley.

docwylie

First of all, why would you run the engine at all without a balancer?! It is there for a good reason. Continued use without it may ruin your crankshaft, and your engine. Second, why not just put a new timing belt on???! You are past 100k and the belt is due at 100k. There have been several reports of failed belts that otherwise looked fine. Even of it looks pristine, it is cheap insurance on an expensive engine. You are playing with fire here. This sounds very foolish to me, but it is you jeep and your dime. Godspeed!

papaindigo · **Posted:** Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:58 am

Excuse me but 129,000 miles and you did not change the TB because it looks ok??? Unless you have proof positive that belt was changed at ca. 100,000 miles you are playing with expensive fire.

taroo and others. Yes I've expressed the opinion that time should factor into the TB change also. At least in part that's due to my personal driving so I've said "I've pretty much settled on the opinion that the TB interval really should be 6yrs or 100,000 miles whichever comes first with the 6yr interval being just the belt (serp belt too) and a visual check of the idler/tensioner bearings. I'm just not comfortable with an aged timing belt. In my case my 05 only has ca. 46,000 miles on it and at my rate of driving, now that I'm retired, if I went by 100,000 miles I wouldn't change the belt until the car was like 15-20 years old which is way too long IMHO". For a crummy $75 belt and a few hrs of my time in labor I'm simply not willing to risk a timing belt change interval based on mileage if that is going to push the change interval out to 15-20 years based on time. Now if we were dealing with a timing chain my opinion would be entirely different.

kjjet · **Posted:** Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:18 am

Totally agree! FYI... its not just the belt. My Tensioner went bad at 94k causing lots of damage. Nearly $2000. in parts. The belt looked great. I will be changing my belt, tensioner, pullys & accy belt every 80k or 5 years.

geordi · **Posted:** Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:07 pm

docwylie wrote:

Just had mine off today. Removed the cover after removing everything in front to get to the harmonic balancer. How many miles do most of you have on your timing belts? Our CRD now has 129,000 when the balancer went out. While investigating the noise generated by the toasted harmonic balancer, we bought the new belt since we were in the area and it would be foolish to not replace the belt after putting all the labor into just getting in the vicinity. Soooooo when we found the harmonic balance rubber innards gone, dealer only item and at least 5 day shipment time, and 300.00 plus smackeroos, we knocked rest of balancer out of crankshaft pulley, put it back on and I just got in from 100 mile round trip. The engine ran and idled smoother with the balancer off than when it was on engine. I know it was engineered with a harmonic balancer on the crank for a reason, just don't know what reason. The old belt is pristeen so we put timing cover back on and closed her up. Marking belt on timing gears and counting gear notches is imperative to confirm timing marks on those gears involved. Rest is idler pulleys and tension pulley.

docwylie

This is only my opinion, but read up on my posts and you will learn where my knowledge comes from.

You are a moron. You are ASKING for trouble, and you WILL experience a catastrophic engine failure when that belt lets go. You CANNOT INSPECT THE BELT and know anything about its integrity. It is a kevlar-and-rubber construct, and ALL the strength is in the kevlar which is hidden from view. When the kevlar weakens, IT DOES NOT STRETCH, it SNAPS. Instantly. There will be no warning.

As for running the engine without the harmonic balancer - I don't see this as bad a problem as ignoring the belt. The engine itself has a balance shaft system in the oil pan, this is counter-acting the force of the pistons. The harmonic balancer may be there to dampen the flex imparted to the belt when the AC cycles or the viscous heater cycles... I don't know. Industrial versions of this engine don't have the external accessories that ours do, and I don't believe they have the same external balancer either. Is it stupid to drive without power steering and the alternator? Sure. Would I do it in an emergency? Yes, but only if I absolutely had to. By continuing to drive around with half your engine apart... You are inviting problems that cannot be predicted.

These problems WILL NOT BE CHEAP, just the same as the problems you are inviting by driving around on a belt that is 30% BEYOND THE SERVICE LIFE. I'm glad it isn't my engine, because I know exactly what is coming.

Any Interest in a Timing Belt Get Together?

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