Throwing Overboost P0234 code as accelerate through about 60

papaindigo · **Posted:** Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:05 pm

Being patient is probably a good thing in this case. Odd that some folks have plugs that just don't want to come out and others have no problem. When we messed with geordi's and lgoodbar's they came right out no problem. I have my fingers crossed as I just ordered a set for stoutdog so sometime in Nov we will be doing glow plugs on both CRDs plus timing belts based solely on age.

ChooChooman74 · **Posted:** Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:19 pm

papaindigo wrote:

Being patient is probably a good thing in this case. Odd that some folks have plugs that just don't want to come out and others have no problem. When we messed with geordi's and lgoodbar's they came right out no problem. I have my fingers crossed as I just ordered a set for stoutdog so sometime in Nov we will be doing glow plugs on both CRDs plus timing belts based solely on age.

I believe 100% what you say. 1, 2, and 3 came out without a problem. I soaked all of them well before removing. Got to #4, and SNAP.

WolverineFW · **Posted:** Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:43 pm

racertracer wrote:

papaindigo wrote:

For what it's worth I'm leaning toward proactive replacement of the ceramic glow plugs with the 7v Etecno1s although I'll also confess that a set has been sitting on the table here for about 1 year uninstalled.

Papa,

I tried to do the job yesterday and the puckering factor stopped me.
I sprayed the area with penetrant and waited, found out that they're in there tight

Number one didn't want to come out, it stopped turning so I tried a back and forth motion but it didn't help, so I buttoned everything back up and sprayed more penetrant hoping that it will free it up by next weekend.

Hurricane Sandi isn't making things easy either. I'll be patient and wait.

Was your engine warm when you tried to get them out?

pappyrsg · **Joined:** Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:35 pm **Posts:** 70

Yeah... I think I'll stay away from the glow plugs for now.

ChooChooman74 · **Posted:** Sun Oct 28, 2012 6:56 pm

pappyrsg wrote:

Yeah... I think I'll stay away from the glow plugs for now.

Not to scare you too much, but a broken glow plug can cause damage. Mine was a turbo. Others were the whole engine. Will your glow plugs break? No definite answer. Then, of course you can have the double whammy. Breaking a glow plug off in the head after you have 2 break and go through your engine.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

pappyrsg · **Joined:** Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:35 pm **Posts:** 70

I'm sure that's all true ChooChooman74... but with no definitive evidence of a broken glow plug, and no codes indicating a bad glow plug, this is obviously one of those things that's best left alone... if it ain't broke, don't fix it!

racertracer · **Posted:** Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:21 pm

WolverineFW wrote:

Was your engine warm when you tried to get them out?

No it wasn't...It was cold from sitting in 38 degree weather all night.

pappyrsg · **Joined:** Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:35 pm **Posts:** 70

Just wondering, did any of you have a code thrown or have a glow plug fail a resistance check, thus prompting you to decide to pull and replace your glow plugs?

ChooChooman74 · **Posted:** Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:58 pm

pappyrsg wrote:

Just wondering, did any of you have a code thrown or have a glow plug fail a resistance check, thus prompting you to decide to pull and replace your glow plugs?

I had a code for #1 and #2. When pulled, a good portion of the tip was missing.

pappyrsg · **Joined:** Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:35 pm **Posts:** 70

So, if any significant portion has broken off, would I expect to have a code, or at least see resistance greater than 0.8 ohms?

ChooChooman74 · **Posted:** Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:33 am

pappyrsg wrote:

So, if any significant portion has broken off, would I expect to have a code, or at least see resistance greater than 0.8 ohms?

I can only go by my experiences. #1 and #2 had codes. #3 didn't and looked fine. #4 snapped off, and that is where I sit now.

I have not heard of anyone who had a broken plug and not have a code.

WolverineFW · **Posted:** Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:02 am

racertracer wrote:

WolverineFW wrote:

Was your engine warm when you tried to get them out?

No it wasn't...It was cold from sitting in 38 degree weather all night.

You should have a warm engine when you try again. It will help due to the different expansion rates of the dissimilar metals and help suck the penetrating oil into the threads.

pappyrsg · **Joined:** Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:35 pm **Posts:** 70

Thanks for the info ChooChooman74 . Best of luck getting through your current situation.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:38 am

A CEL and code will indicate a bad glow plug which can be confirmed, probably not worth the bother IMHO, but plugs can fail with or without a broken tip. If you pull a ceramic plug and the tip is broken then you need to check the "age" of the break. Sooty broken surface = older break while shiney broken surface = new break. If an old break and the engine is running fine it's probably ok to just replace the broken plug (all 4 if going the OEM 5v route or your choice of all 4 or just 1 if going the 7v Etenoc1 route) as it's a good bet the broken piece passed thru the system without causing damage. If a new break you will need to decide whether to look for the piece (pull the head per the FSM or find a way to look inside the cylinder head) or install a new plug and hope the piece passes with no damage. Don't ask me which is best as I've not had to make that decision yet. FYI if you are not sure sooty vs shiney then just break the tip of the broken plug a bit further up or break the tip of another plug if you are replacing them all and then compare the known new break with the surface of the break on the plug you pulled from the engine.

If a plug does not come out easily penetrating oil will probably help as will some modest engine warmup/cool down cycles to encourage the oil to penetrate.

pappyrsg · **Joined:** Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:35 pm **Posts:** 70

I'm thinking taking a look at my glow plugs would be a good thing to do, though not enough evidence to justify the effort and exposure in pulling them. Probing down through the injector openings with a camera could provide enough visibility, and seems much easier, but I can't find any specs on how large the injector bore is. Anyone out there tried this, or know the opening size? Cameras are available relatively cheap in the 7 to 9mm size.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Mon Oct 29, 2012 11:55 am

While it might be good to know the bore size and if a camera probe would fit in there for the purpose of looking for missing glow plug pieces and/or associated damage I'm not sure that would be of any benefit in assessing glow plug condition. Others may know more than I but it's my understanding that 1) the glow plug tip sits sort of off to the side in a recess in the cylinder head which may not be visible via a camera probe thru a fuel injector hole; 2) I'm pretty sure any broken glow plug will trigger a code hence no code = no break so why look?; and 3) pulling injectors can range from easy to no fun at all and in any case requires new "O" rings and crush washers so wouldn't it be just as easy to pull the glow plugs. Of course if you pull the glow plugs and they are ceramic in my personal opinion you might as well just replace them with the Etenco1s for the ca. $173 cost delivered and the forget about future inspections.

pappyrsg · **Joined:** Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:35 pm **Posts:** 70

Thanks papaindigo . You reinforced my gut feeling to not worry about the glow plugs. But... 1) I would think you could see the glow plug end pretty well... these cameras are quite amazing in their picture quality, and the one I bought (quite returnable) includes a mirror tip that lets you see at a right angle, with incorporated led illumination. 2) your seconding ChooChooman74's feedback... no code, unlikely there's a broken glow plug tip. 3) Seriously? With the described procedures for both tasks, not to mention the horror stories I've seen in past posts and currently being playing out (see ChooChooman74) with glow plug removal, you actually think pulling the injectors right there on top of the engine in plain sight would be a task comparable to pulling the glow plugs? I admit I haven't done either task but from the descriptions, and the comments I've seen in this forum, and my own prep observations, I'll go with injector pull any day. The injector seals cost is under $20 total. Then there's the fact that pulling the glow plugs means replacing the glow plugs ($173), per your post... likely a recognition that just the act of pulling the glow plugs greatly increases the probability that they'll wind up damaged / cracked. Regardless of our difference of opinion on the advisability of task A vs B, I put a lot of value in your experience and opinion that my glow plugs are most likely fine, added to ChooChooman74's experience, I think I'll just install my new turbo and ,'move forward!'.
Two more questions though for anyone who's done a turbo R&R, regarding installing the replacement turbo:
1. Should I try to prime the bearings by attempting to work some oil into the turbo oil feed line port?
2. At the bottom of the oil feed line port, is there supposed to be a steel ball (i.e. ball bearing)? There's none sitting in the turbo I received but I did find one on the floor next to my workbench, after tearing down the old turbo (could have been there from previous activities), and there is a nice little nest for one in the bottom of that oil feed line port... just wondering.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:35 am

Followup
1. would be great to know if tip can be seen and with what equipment. Given what I recall about tip location I'm just not sure it's possible. There has been chat about doing this but I don't recall any post on actually doing it.
2. yep
3. yes seriously. I've assisted in 2 glow plug pulls that were no problem at all and the ceramic tip is not so fragile that a light tap will cause it to break and yes ceramic glow plugs can be pulled and reinstalled. The point I was trying to make was in my personal opinion if you pulled ceramic glow plugs for whatever reason then it would be a good idea to spend the $s to replace them with metal plugs and never worry about them again. As to pulling injectors - they are easier to get to and sometimes come out easily but I know of some cases (one using my Miller tool) where 1 or more were a real bear to pull although breaking during pulling is probably not going to happen. That said there have been several cases of breaking a part off the associated fuel rail, modestly expensive, during the injector removal process. Pick your poison there are pros and cons of either approach.

As to your questions:
1. geordi and I did not do so when we installed my GDE Stage II turbo and had no problems but we did take care after the install to allow some idle time to lube the system before applying enough throttle to actually use the turbo. That said if you can get a bit of oil in there it wouldn't hurt. Just speculating though given that the OEM turbo shaft rides on an oil film in a sleeve type bearing I'd think some degree of oil pressure would be required to provide that oil film.
2. I'm not quite sure what you mean regarding the oil feed line (hard metal tube about 1/4" in diameter). I just checked my old spare OEM one and the engine block end has a round/ball shaped head and captive nut that bolts to a fitting in the main upper oil gallery of the engine while the other end is 1/2 of a banjo bolt assembly that's secured to the turbo by the banjo bolt with crush washer on each side. If you can post a picture I might could provide a better answer. If you cannot post a picture on the forum you are welcome to send me one via email. As soon as I post this I'll shoot you a PM with my direct email address.

pappyrsg · **Joined:** Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:35 pm **Posts:** 70

RE question #2: I'm referring to the banjo bolt (#1 on the parts fiche Figure 14-620) end of the oil feed line at the turbo. I found what is likely a stray ball bearing next to my workbench and then noticed the hollowed-out end of the banjo bolt and an equivalent size seat area within the turbo where that bolt attaches... just wanted to be sure I wasn't leaving out a part at re-assembly time. It certainly seems putting the ball bearing in that seat under the banjo bolt would block oil flow, but I thought possibly some odd flow regulator setup...? Anyway, if you don't recall any ball of steel sitting in that seat area, and the parts fiche diagram doesn't show one (not a sure bet it would... Chrysler docs known for errors), the bearing I found is apparently just a stray part from something else long gone.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:53 am

I hate stray things like that. My used OEM turbo is packed up so I cannot look and my banjo bolt was used in the GDE turbo install. I sure don't recal anything and like you say all it would do is block flow which you sure don't want to do. I know no such ball came with the GDE turbo.

Chalk it up to random part from something. I have several of these in a dish that I've never identified.

Throwing Overboost P0234 code as accelerate through about 60

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