Turbo Lost Whistle

Mak-1 · **Posted:** Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:15 pm

Hello everyone. First I am a new member but have been reading and watching this forum for a few years since I purchased my Jeep. I thank all of you for your shared experience and insight with the Jeep CRD's. Now to my question I can't seem to trouble shoot.

I have an 05 Jeep Liberty, about 98,000 miles that has recently had some turbo noise changes. I have had this vehicle for 2 years and have been driving it as a commuter. The beautiful whistle we all enjoy has stopped and I now get I more of a wind/whrrr sound. When driving on the flats there is no loss of power and a pronounced wind/whrrr sound but on a hill there is a bit of a loss and very loud wind/whrrr sound. I recently changed the inlet CAC line w/ OEM about 8mo ago when it blew and I limped home. The outlet CAC line looked fine and still does but likely needs changeing so I have ordered that part in in the event it is contributing to this problem. There is no indication of the CAC lines are leaking from what I can tell so I am worried the Turbo may be going or is gone to cause this noise change and loss of spool whistle... How can I tell and if it is going why would that happen. Or is this really something to do with the CAC hoses and system that I have not found yet....?

I have not done the fuel filter head yet but bleed the fuel line regular and change the fuel filter as needed, I run the 0W40 Mobil 1, I do run the ORM and have the MAF unplugged and I have cleaned the MAP sensor and check it periodically with oil changes and I have the Timing Belt Change on my radar and budgeted but have not found an experienced CRD mechanic in my area yet to get it done.

I know noises and sounds are hard to trouble shoot via text but I am hoping some of you more experienced folks can help as the CAC hoses don't seem to be contributing from my limited experience. I love this jeep and she is under the weather.... If this is the wrong place to post I appologize and will post where required if directed to do so. Thanks for any insight and trouble shooting assistance you can offer.

Myles
Vancouver BC

camo · **Posted:** Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:16 am

I have a used turbo in good condition. If you are interested let me know. PM me.

Mak-1 · **Posted:** Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:33 pm

Hello again,

Just an update on my findings. My whrr sound is now more of a low pitch whine and the following has recently happend as I have been troubleshooting:

1) All CAC hoses have been checked and one replaced. Not the problem.
2) I checked the turbo shaft it wiggles but I could not tell if its good or bad. Spins no problem with no effort
3) White smoke was experienced on one of my drives with some blue color and a bit of smell
4) Today I was warming it up for a drive lots of smoke on startup then it stopped as it heated up but there was a puddle of oil under the muffler at the little drain hole and lots of white/blue smoke on the drive when it sees a load or I am guessing when the Turbo is loaded.
5) Turbo noise feels/sounds like it is getting worse with all this.

I am fairly sure this is the turbo and the oil is bearing or seal on the exhaust side that has failed or is failing hence the oil in the exhaust and smoke likely from the Catalyst burning it off as it heats up.

Can these turbo's be re-built with this type of failure or are they replacement only... Is the oil from the seal failure or the oil return line being plugged...? Any comments or further isight into my problem is appreciated.

Thanks
Myles

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:20 pm

no real experience with the turbo

the factory won't rebuild them and doesn't recommend it - some aftermarket folks have tried - no data on those.
Geordi said side to side was the key on turbo movement - should be minimal.
be very cautious on the turbo return oil line - that looks like it killed an engine or two - the oil returns to main bearings in the lower end - restricted flow - kills piston rods.

ChooChooman74 · **Posted:** Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:30 pm

Oil out the exhaust is NOT good. Ask Giordi. I would, IMHO, park it and take the turbo off and replace it.

LMWatBullRun · **Posted:** Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:57 pm

ChooChooman74 wrote:

Oil out the exhaust is NOT good. Ask Giordi. I would, IMHO, park it and take the turbo off and replace it.

What he said. Squared and cubed. Check out R2.0's thread on this topic.

Mak-1 · **Posted:** Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:19 am

Hello again... Thanks for the feedback and info and a happy new year to everyone!

I have parked the CRD since my last post as suggested and have been reviewing the threads and my options among life's other challenges. I don't have the time or space to replace it myself so I plan to get the dealer to remove it for me. They just did a replacement for a customer (very spendy) but the cost is in turbo. Its a 3hr re & re job plus parts and they are comfortable to get it out and back in for me based on the one they just did. I found a local supplier (ADP Distributors) that has no issues with re-building my turbo and they will replace all parts, machine to new tolerances & test and balance for install or they will sell me a new OEM turbo if the turbo is too gone. They are a Garrett supplier and turbos are their business http://www.adpdistributors.com. Re-build approx $500-$600, new Garrett OEM (ADP) $1300 (about the same as id Parts w/ shipping & duty into Canada) and Local Vancouver Dealer MOPAR $3400..... :dizzy:

but...... for the extra $2k I could get 1yr parts and labour warranty.... :?:

Anyhow dealer will re & re the re-built turbo or a new one owner supplied but no warranty. I will get them to do my timing belt while I am waiting for the turbo re-build as I am at my 100K mileage and may as well get it done. Hoping to get this done in the next couple of weeks and will post a follow-up.

Thanks,
Myles

Hammy713 · **Posted:** Wed Jan 02, 2013 7:06 am

Hi Mak-1,

That sounds very similar to what I just went through. My turbo was on its way out. I would check your oil level too! Mine was very low due too the bad turbo.

Also, I have a Gaarrett turbo dealer here in Spokane, WA that rebuilds turbos and injectors. He thought the CRD turbo could be rebuilt but after checking further, he found out otherwise. You will need to purchase a new OEM turbo or one from Keith at Green Diesel Engineering. I paid $1,025 if I remember correctly plus shipping and tax. I'll find the post and link it here.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=70726 (you might have already read through it but all the information is here).

Anyway, yeah, I would not drive it and bite the bullet on the turbo. Everything I've read is stay away from the Ebay junk.

Good luck

This is where I got mine (although you mentioned idparts has them too). My local dealer was about the same price as yours with the same part number!

Advanced Diesel Supply
509-535-0336

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

Mak-1,

I have a few new OEM turbos and can part with one for $800 plus shipping, which would be about $60 to Canada. I think you will not be satisified with a rebuilt unit long term, even if they are cheaper.

Thanks,
Keith
GDE Calibrator

Hammy713 · **Posted:** Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:48 pm

GreenDieselEngineering wrote:

Mak-1,

I have a few new OEM turbos and can part with one for $800 plus shipping, which would be about $60 to Canada. I think you will not be satisified with a rebuilt unit long term, even if they are cheaper.

Thanks,
Keith
GDE Calibrator

What an offer by Keith! GDE is a huge asset to these rigs and everyone on this site.

jaym540 · **Joined:** Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:53 pm **Posts:** 59

i bought rebuilt and it failed in 50 miles. i am very leary of them especially since the factory does other models but not these. they are at the top of there mechanical threashold.

geordi · **Posted:** Fri Jan 04, 2013 3:42 pm

Couple thoughts, sorry I didn't stumble into this thread sooner. Holiday Cheer and all that.

Oil in the exhaust, your turbo is toast, but if you aren't fogging the road behind you (Batmobile smoke screen) then you got lucky and caught it before it --REALLY-- got bad. Downside, is that you still are losing oil, so loss of oil level could still be a problem for the main bearings, but only if you let it run out / really low. Sounds like you might be ok on that one... But check and top your oil up before you drive it again.

The oil return dumps to the pan, what dooms the main bearings is sudden and large loss of oil pressure from a large turbo bearing failure. There isn't a turbo "seal" as such on these due to the extreme heat, but a thrust bearing. Basically, a very finely machined washer and tight tolerances that keep the oil in on both ends. That is also why the return is non-pressured, so the oil isn't "pushed" past the washers, it has an easier path.

Now: rebuilds. No. No. No. Get what I'm saying? Garrett DOES NOT rebuild these. Ever. Period. Full stop. I rebuilt my own as an experiment, and it was not successful. Lasted less than 100 miles, I pulled it from service because it made unhappy noises when stopping. Others have had similar experiences. It just is not worth the risk, you are betting with an $8000 engine over a few dollars, and the results have been a conservative 80% failure rate.

Replacing the turbo... I wouldn't trust a dealer to do this and not screw it up. You can buy Keith's turbo (GDE), and I can virtually guarantee that the dealer will refuse to install it because you didn't buy it from them. You can replace the turbo yourself in about 5 hours if you haven't ever seen it before, less time with help from us. I personally can do it in as little as 2 hours flat... But that was on my jeep where the turbo had been swapped out 3 times in the space of a month. I got pretty good at it.

It doesn't require anything special to do it, just a basic set of wrenches. and sockets, and you save a LOT of money.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

LMWatBullRun · **Posted:** Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:15 pm

What Geordi said. Times 2.

Srytrucker · **Posted:** Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:21 pm

From the sound if it is a simple bolt off and bolt on job can some one be generous so as to post pictorial walk through with what to do. Thanks for sharing info as I am increasingly getting frustrated to pay 125 bucks on hour labour in stealer ship puck ups.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:02 pm

Not too complicated if the turbo to engine nut/studs cooperate. See viewtopic.php?f=5&t=73032&p=767454&hilit=turbo#p767454 for comments, helpful links, etc.

Mak-1 · **Posted:** Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:05 am

Folks I just wanted to say Thank You to everyone for the comments and advice.

To all.... Point Taken on the Re-build..... Thanks :!:

. I have taken Keith up on his offer and funds have been sent to GDE.... Thanks Keith. I have started to read the info posted by others on doing the replacement myself. While Keith gets the new turbo on its way to me it will take a week or so to ship and I can get my head wrapped around maybe doing this myself.

As for Geordi's comments... I did have a few batman smoke shows for short periods on initial driving after startup but but they would go away after a short drive or heat up. However, upon reviewing the first few posts on this topic I took the advice of the forum comments to stop driving so I am fairly sure I stopped driving before things got too bad. The turbo still spins and makes a not so good noise just before I parked it. Engine Oil is good but will be topped up if I have to move it for the repair. I will keep everyone posted. Thanks again to all of you for all your great feedback and experience.

Cheers,
Myles

Turbo Lost Whistle

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