Scanned some codes today. What to do next?

TennesseeCRD · **Joined:** Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:01 am **Posts:** 181

Hey guys. I had my crd scanned today and it turned up 3 codes. I know that 1 is probably the maf because I've had it unhooked for a year. The other 2 I'm not sure of. Here they are. Please tell me what they are and what I should do about it.

P0102
P0101
P0610

Thanks,
Steve

racertracer · **Posted:** Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:45 am

P0102 = Mass Air Flow (MAF) Circuit Low Input
P0101 = Mass Air Flow (MAF) Circuit Range/Performance Problem
P0610 = Go here: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f28/06-c ... 10-664875/

Hexus · **Posted:** Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:06 am

TennesseeCRD wrote:

Hey guys. I had my crd scanned today and it turned up 3 codes. I know that 1 is probably the maf because I've had it unhooked for a year. The other 2 I'm not sure of. Here they are. Please tell me what they are and what I should do about it.

P0102
P0101
P0610

Thanks,
Steve

You can probably clear the P0102 and P0101 by simply cleaning the MAF and MAP sensors, look at the NOOB Guide for this.

The P0610 might be crappy. Your first option would be to take it to the dealer and try to let them flash the ECU to see if that fixes the problem, if not, you might be well off getting a hold of the folks at Sun Coast. P0610 means the ECU not properly communicating with the Torque Converter in your transmission.

TennesseeCRD · **Joined:** Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:01 am **Posts:** 181

Would both of the maf codes be due to it being unplugged? If so I'm ok with them. I plan on keeping it unhooked untill I get the GDE eco tune. I've been putting it off for a couple of years now. Can a GDE tune take care of the other code as well? This thing gets CRAPPY fuel milage and always has. I clean the map sensor on a regular basis and the viscus clutch is disconected so those things can be ruled out for the high fuel consumption problem.

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

The GDE tunes can eliminate P0610 and P0102. The P0101 code usually trips when the air flow is reduced beyond a certain point. It is an early signal that your rocker arms are worn.

TennesseeCRD · **Joined:** Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:01 am **Posts:** 181

GreenDieselEngineering wrote:

The GDE tunes can eliminate P0610 and P0102. The P0101 code usually trips when the air flow is reduced beyond a certain point. It is an early signal that your rocker arms are worn.

I've noticed a reduction in power over the last year. Also, under load (going up a steep hill) I can hear what sounds like intake air backing up through the turbo. Is this a symptom of the worn rocker arms? Is there a test for this?
Thanks

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

Yes those are symtoms of bad rocker arms. The best test I have found is measuring the air mass at idle. You need a decent tool to measure the MAF. The units of measure vary based on the tool used. A drbIII uses mg/stroke. A good engine is in the range of 640-720 mg/str and an engine with bad rockers (less valve lift thus less flow) is in the range of 500-550 mg/stroke. You must wait at least 60 seconds at idle for the EGR to shut off and make the test valid.

TennesseeCRD · **Joined:** Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:01 am **Posts:** 181

I'm wondering if this could be causing my bad mpg's. I've had the rig for 3 years and it was bad when I got it. I got only 19mpg on everyday mountain driving. I'm at 17mpg now and noticably less powerful. Also, I blew an upper cac hose last year. I bought a new hose and it blew off 3 seperate times in the first month till I doubled the clamps. Would this have caused added pressure from the turbo to the intake? Seems so since the motor wasn't utilizing the intake air, right? This is going to be an expensive venture because I'm due for the timing belt swap also.

LMWatBullRun · **Posted:** Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:41 am

Once you have the CRD disassembled to the point of being able to do the belt and the WP, then you have only a little more to do to get to the rockers. The biggest thing is the removal of the injection system. Take your time and keep everything clean and all should be well.

flman · **Posted:** Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:58 pm

GreenDieselEngineering wrote:

The GDE tunes can eliminate P0610 and P0102. The P0101 code usually trips when the air flow is reduced beyond a certain point. It is an early signal that your rocker arms are worn.

X2, GDE cleared my codes and it passed inspection with no problem.

TennesseeCRD · **Joined:** Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:01 am **Posts:** 181

What exactly happens to the rocker arms? Does someone have a picture of a healthy rocker arm compared to a worn rocker arm?

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:36 pm

if you want good pictures of bad things - you need to check for Sir Sam

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=688969#p688969

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=763945#p763945

(you do have to sort through them though because he also has really good pictures of good things - Yellowstone, Alaska ect. ect.)

TennesseeCRD · **Joined:** Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:01 am **Posts:** 181

ATXKJ wrote:

if you want good pictures of bad things - you need to check for Sir Sam

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=688969#p688969

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=763945#p763945

(you do have to sort through them though because he also has really good pictures of good things - Yellowstone, Alaska ect. ect.)

Thanks, That helped alot.

TennesseeCRD · **Joined:** Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:01 am **Posts:** 181

Is there any reason to suspect bad cam lobes? Is that an issue with the CRD's as well?

CATCRD · **Posted:** Sat Feb 02, 2013 4:13 pm

GreenDieselEngineering wrote:

Yes those are symtoms of bad rocker arms. The best test I have found is measuring the air mass at idle. You need a decent tool to measure the MAF. The units of measure vary based on the tool used. A drbIII uses mg/stroke. A good engine is in the range of 640-720 mg/str and an engine with bad rockers (less valve lift thus less flow) is in the range of 500-550 mg/stroke. You must wait at least 60 seconds at idle for the EGR to shut off and make the test valid.

I used the Torque app on my droid to measure the MAF rate on my CRDs at idle. Both are 15.1 g/s, which if you do the math to convert to mg/stroke is about 700 (including an adjustment for the less dense air here at 5000 ft elevation).

So that's pretty encouraging. One has had EGR disabled since 19k with 60k on the odo now. The other was disabled at 25k, with 80k now.

For anyone else with this app, the default units are g/s or grams per second.
The conversion is g/s * 1000 * 60 / 760 / 2 * D

where 760 was my idle speed with a fully warm engine, and D is the air density adjustment from sea level. I used 1.17 to approximate what my engine would be pulling in terms of mass flow at sea level.

It would be interesting if a couple other people here on the board would check this and post results, since I know a couple people have the capability.

tech57 · **Posted:** Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:14 pm

17.4 g/s per the Torque app for my CRD here in Atlanta, GA.
Calculated mg/stroke is around 700 so I'm a happy guy :SOMBRERO:

dirtmover · **Posted:** Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:36 pm

CATCRD wrote:

I used the Torque app on my droid to measure the MAF rate on my CRDs at idle. Both are 15.1 g/s, which if you do the math to convert to mg/stroke is about 700 (including an adjustment for the less dense air here at 5000 ft elevation).

Why are you adjusting for elevation? One of the major advantages of hot wire/film MAF sensors is that they're insensitive to ambient temperature or altitude so don't require any compensation.

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:15 pm

GDE,

If you are running one of your tunes, do you NOT have to wait 60 seconds for the EGR to shut off when doing the MAF test?

Thanks!

DOC

CATCRD · **Posted:** Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:14 pm

dirtmover wrote:

CATCRD wrote:

I used the Torque app on my droid to measure the MAF rate on my CRDs at idle. Both are 15.1 g/s, which if you do the math to convert to mg/stroke is about 700 (including an adjustment for the less dense air here at 5000 ft elevation).

Why are you adjusting for elevation? One of the major advantages of hot wire/film MAF sensors is that they're insensitive to ambient temperature or altitude so don't require any compensation.

I'm not adjusting for the sensor, I'm adjusting for the air density. At constant speed (idle speed), the engine is just an air pump moving a constant volume of air per minute, regardless of altitude. At high altitude that same volume of air will have less mass, so it will register less mass flow per minute. You are right that hot wire maf sensors are very accurate at all altitudes, that's why they can pick up the difference I'm seeing.

Think about it another way: If you had a gas engine with a hot wire maf that pulled (random number) 10 g/s at sea level and you drove up to 10,000 ft, if it didn't register less mass flow at high altitude, it would make the engine run way too rich. That's the advantage over carbs that I'm sure you're aware of.

dirtmover · **Posted:** Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:19 am

Ok, thanks catrcd, I think what threw me was the MAF reading is accurate regardless of altitude and GDE had also given a mass based target. Same units so no conversion required.

I think what you're saying is that the target should really be a volumetric flow i.e. litres/sec (or stroke) rather than a mass flow which is where the altitude conversion comes from.

If we want to stick with a mass based comparison, and since the MAF reading is independent of P&T, we should really be adjusting the target range to account for altitude and temperature rather than adjusting the reading.

....but yeah, I know, it all amounts to the same thing.

DOC4444 wrote:

If you are running one of your tunes, do you NOT have to wait 60 seconds for the EGR to shut off when doing the MAF test?

I've got the FT ECO and idling for a few minutes reveals no discernible change at 60 seconds. There is some low frequency "breathing" but we're talking about 0.2 g/s

Scanned some codes today. What to do next?

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