Almost bought a crd but have a lot of questions.

Jwlochal · **Joined:** Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:42 pm **Posts:** 11

So I really want one of these!
I looked at one today, it was 11,000 for a 2005 with 93k on it. The color was khaki and it was clean, ran great, this was the first time I have driven a diesel since driving a tractor 25 years ago. It was great. The big turn off was the truck is so plain, the interior was very drab and the test drive led me to a lot of questions.

1) Did they not make a renegade diesel liberty?
2) are all Diesel liberty's auto tranny?
3) The one I drove was the 2005 with an the manual tcase, did this change in 2006? I am seeing a lot of people split on this, It seems the 05 gets better mileage, anyone have experience between the 2? I am looking at a 06 in the morning, Anything to watch for? Should I stick to the 05?
4) Diesel are known for towing, I want to tow 2 motorcycles on a small trailer, 3000 lbs tops. How does this affect the mileage?
5) Best mild lift for a crd? Would like to make it look a bit tougher and perform a little better off road. Not a lot of off road for now, want some bigger tires and to toughen it up a bit.
6) How much weight can a roof rack hold? I wont use it often but I love the look and like the option of putting my snowboard equipment up there for a colorado trip.
7) If I was to find a renegade in the salvage yard, are the fenders attached the same way? I like the renegade fenders and would like to swap them on.

thanks for any help you can all give. I am hoping to be a member of this elite club soon!
Jeremy
:JEEPIN:

Hoosier CRD · **Posted:** Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:47 am

I may be of some help here:

Q1) Did they not make a renegade diesel liberty?
A1) No.

Q2) are all Diesel liberty's auto tranny?
A2) Yes, here in the U.S. anyway. Don't even THINK of trying to convert one.

Q3a) The one I drove was the 2005 with an the manual tcase, did this change in 2006?
A3a) No.

Q3b) I am seeing a lot of people split on this, It seems the 05 gets better mileage, anyone have experience between the 2?
A3b) Should be about the same. They are built/geared identically.

Q3c) I am looking at a 06 in the morning, Anything to watch for? Should I stick to the 05?
A3c) Window Regulators on '06s were changed. I'd stick with an '05 myself, but there are fixes from Steiger's (Google it)

Q4) Diesel are known for towing, I want to tow 2 motorcycles on a small trailer, 3000 lbs tops. How does this affect the mileage?
A4) Will affect it some, too many factors to give a definitive answer. Strongly suggest a Green Diesel Engineering tune.

Q5) Best mild lift for a crd? Would like to make it look a bit tougher and perform a little better off road. Not a lot of off road for now, want some bigger tires and to toughen it up a bit.
A5) Check with OME and Jeepin by Al.

Q6) How much weight can a roof rack hold? I wont use it often but I love the look and like the option of putting my snowboard equipment up there for a colorado trip.
A6) Uncertain but the rack itself will likely have a label of some sort giving weight holding specs. Should be at least a few in the aftermarket if the OE unit doesn't work for you.

Q7) If I was to find a renegade in the salvage yard, are the fenders attached the same way? I like the renegade fenders and would like to swap them on.
A7) The front flares themselves changed in (I believe) '05. Whenever the fog lights went from under the bumper to just under the headlights in the grill area is what to look for. I think that the rears are the same for the body run.

Unless you are willing to work on the thing yourself, or at the very least you have a LOCAL shop that is familiar with these mongrels, I would strongly suggest you soul search before diving in. These "Italian Mistresses" are not for those without a modicum of patience. Read the NOOB guide for more insight. Make sure you know what you are getting yourself into, otherwise you will grow to hate the thing and end up selling it (or worse) before all is said and done. Hope this helps.

thermorex · **Posted:** Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:15 am

Pls read below for my answers (after each question.

Jwlochal wrote:

So I really want one of these!
I looked at one today, it was 11,000 for a 2005 with 93k on it. The color was khaki and it was clean, ran great, this was the first time I have driven a diesel since driving a tractor 25 years ago. It was great. The big turn off was the truck is so plain, the interior was very drab and the test drive led me to a lot of questions.

I find this valid for all American cars. The materials used for interior feels cheap. But at least in my case, I didn't get a jeep for the interiors, lol.

1) Did they not make a renegade diesel liberty?

No

2) are all Diesel liberty's auto tranny?

Yes, at least the ones in us. Auto tranny is better for towing, it can pull more weight. You can change it with a 6 speed manual, but you also need to replace the drive shaft from what I remember.

3) The one I drove was the 2005 with an the manual tcase, did this change in 2006? I am seeing a lot of people split on this, It seems the 05 gets better mileage, anyone have experience between the 2? I am looking at a 06 in the morning, Anything to watch for? Should I stick to the 05?

I would get the 06, but since both are used, I would just get what it seems in better shape. I think that 06 has a better torque converter, but I'm sure someone else can confirm this. I would also look first to get the one with less mileage. If you get a crd with 90k+ miles, I'd recommend doing a timing belt change ASAP, to avoid damaging your engine if it fails. Normally at 100k timing belt must be replaced. Transfer case it's manual for all if them, which I think it's a good thing.

4) Diesel are known for towing, I want to tow 2 motorcycles on a small trailer, 3000 lbs tops. How does this affect the mileage?

People here were doing way more than that. With a good torque converter and (recommended) an additional tranny cooler, you won't have issues. Mileage for 3k lbs should drop with maybe 2-3, depending on road conditions.

5) Best mild lift for a crd? Would like to make it look a bit tougher and perform a little better off road. Not a lot of off road for now, want some bigger tires and to toughen it up a bit.

There are several kits available, I personally don't have any (I use my xj for offroading

), but keep in mind that your front diff is not very strong, the casing is aluminum ant too much stress can break it. Also this transfer case (select trac) is known to be weak compared to command trac (this doesn't have 4h full time). You can do "camping" style off roading but don't go too crazy, lol.

6) How much weight can a roof rack hold? I wont use it often but I love the look and like the option of putting my snowboard equipment up there for a colorado trip.

I don't know this... Maybe the owner manual has some info. Regardless, a roof rack that distributes the weight better(more clamps to fix it on the roof) will give you few pounds more.

7) If I was to find a renegade in the salvage yard, are the fenders attached the same way? I like the renegade fenders and would like to swap them on.

At some point, I wanted to do the same. But after a wile I dropped it. From what I know, the fenders are the same.

thanks for any help you can all give. I am hoping to be a member of this elite club soon!
Jeremy
:JEEPIN:

Very important: plan on getting a gde tune. That help with gaining some power and torque, but most important is that the engine runs cleaner and better, you will definitely lengthen its life. And. Read the noob guide by sir Sam in the sticky area. That will answer lots of questions you may have.

Hexus · **Posted:** Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:36 am

2006 only came in a Limited whereas the 2005 was available in a Limited and Sport models.

The 2006 will be leather seats, etc. and much nicer on the inside overall.

Any Liberty CRD you buy close to 100k (IIRC you said it had 93k) will REQUIRE a timing belt change and I would VERY STRONGLY recommend doing Rockers/Lifters at 100k unless you have had an EGR Delete/GDE ECO tune prior to 75k.

Make sure the TB has been done, verify it with the original bill from a Chrylser Dealer or shop, make sure they have warranteed their work.

It will tow 3k lbs. no problem, you might consider a Sun Coast Torque Converter in your future if your plans are towing though not required immediately.

Look at my post on Rocker/Lifter in this same section, and go look at the video for the damage to my rockers/lifters. I didn't get my GDE ECO tune until 103k and was getting ready to do my Timing belt when it happened.

As far as roof racks go, I have used a BELL (The motorcycle Helmet co.) on mine with a Sears Roof Container (luggage container, very large) and filled it with 500+ lbs. of crap and never had a problem with the roof racks, the roof, etc. It just creates some road noise because these jeeps are about as aerodynamic as a brick to begin with.

Good luck, hope you find what you're looking for!

dirtmover · **Posted:** Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:43 am

+1 on the timing belt. Since this is an 05 I'd be concerned about the age of the belt as well as the mileage. I'm sure you're aware that this is an expensive job if you have to pay someone else to do it so you may wish to factor this ~$1K into your offer.

One other thing. Make sure the CEL illuminates when you first turn the ignition on or even better take a scanner to read any codes. It has been known for the previous owner to "disable" it prior to selling.

MRausch82 · **Posted:** Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:31 am

Hexus wrote:

2006 only came in a Limited whereas the 2005 was available in a Limited and Sport models.

The 2006 will be leather seats, etc. and much nicer on the inside overall.

The 2006's came in Sports also... my 2006 is a Sport. I have seen(and looked into buying in the past) a few others that were '06 Sports. I personally like the Sport, but that is me. The less stuff the better to me as it is less to go wrong. I have always liked fairly basic vehicles to the loaded vehicles. Again, this is just me...

thermorex · **Posted:** Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:48 am

IMO, it all depends on what you expect from a car. If you're into jeeps, like I am, then get a crd. It's fun, even thought its a high maintenance engine (mainly due to bad oils (you can get euro diesel oils here too, but harder) and bad diesel in us. If you just want a car that has good mileage, good reliability, then get a Honda or Toyota. Not trying to be funny, but you need to be aware on how the facts are. Expect much higher maintenance in a crd vs regular liberty. All these considered, will I trade my crd for another similar car? Hell no, I love it! Even though its the "Italian mistress". Lol

kjjet · **Posted:** Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:41 pm

MRausch82 wrote:

Hexus wrote:

2006 only came in a Limited whereas the 2005 was available in a Limited and Sport models.

The 2006 will be leather seats, etc. and much nicer on the inside overall.

The 2006's came in Sports also... my 2006 is a Sport. I have seen(and looked into buying in the past) a few others that were '06 Sports. I personally like the Sport, but that is me. The less stuff the better to me as it is less to go wrong. I have always liked fairly basic vehicles to the loaded vehicles. Again, this is just me...

Mike i agree. I like the sport also, but the sport seats are terrible. So i found some 06 Limited leather seats to install. The leather is a little slick but they are way better than the sport seats.

TJ2 · **Posted:** Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:29 pm

Yes, manual transfer case that includes full-time (much like all-wheel) four wheel drive. Of course front and rear lock together 4 hi. . . and 4 lo.

I didn't care for the "Liberty" package at all. I bought mine for the 2.8 CRD turbdiesel and the "manual" transfer case.

Up to 2009, I lived in Moab and drove a '97 TJ Wrangler with a few mods suitable to an old man. The Liberty. . . in any form. . . (excepting those with a front axle) could never perform the way my old Wrangler did.

If you don't need the torque (it's addicting) and don't mind crappy fuel economy, I'd suggest a Cherokee. It can be made to behave like a real Jeep.

That said, my Liberty has been on 'Hell's Revenge' many times. I do some of the trails I used to do with the '97.

Approach angle on Liberty sucks. . . break-over even worse. It would take major lift and major rubber to climb 'Wipeout,' which was nothing to the old '97.

It seems the major use here is towing and a mid-sized family vehicle.

PS Service history is everything when buying a used CRD. Also, if the EGR hasn't been neutered before 60-75k miles, you should expect trouble with rockers and possibly the bottom end.

My 2.5 cents

kjjet · **Posted:** Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:46 pm

DIDO...TJ2

flman · **Posted:** Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:40 pm

Looks like the OP was fed a lot of myths? :dizzy:

Big Montana · **Posted:** Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:13 am

MRausch82 wrote:

Hexus wrote:

2006 only came in a Limited whereas the 2005 was available in a Limited and Sport models.

The 2006 will be leather seats, etc. and much nicer on the inside overall.

The 2006's came in Sports also... my 2006 is a Sport. I have seen(and looked into buying in the past) a few others that were '06 Sports. I personally like the Sport, but that is me. The less stuff the better to me as it is less to go wrong. I have always liked fairly basic vehicles to the loaded vehicles. Again, this is just me...

Heck yeah! I have an 05 Sport, and other than my premium speakers, it all works... I just knocked on wood.

To the OP, I've owned mine since new in 2005. It's a great Jeep, but it does cause constant thought. My wife has said it's like our third child. It has performed well, but I think the GDE tune has helped prevent a lot of damage. If you want a simple tow vehicle, look elsewhere. If you want a rare U.S. Diesel with a lot of power then go for the CRD.

Jwlochal · **Joined:** Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:42 pm **Posts:** 11

To the OP, I've owned mine since new in 2005. It's a great Jeep, but it does cause constant thought. My wife has said it's like our third child. It has performed well, but I think the GDE tune has helped prevent a lot of damage. If you want a simple tow vehicle, look elsewhere. If you want a rare U.S. Diesel with a lot of power then go for the CRD.[/quote]

I am looking for a good daily driver that I can do light towing with a couple times a year that gets decent mileage. Something I can take on back roads, into the mountains and deserts and not have to worry if there is a rough or muddy road. A vehicle that I can get around with in the snow that will be fun to drive. I examined all my options and the liberty diesel came up on my radar.

arengant · **Posted:** Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:41 am

Mine is great offroad! I don't tow a lot, I just wanted good mpg and torque for offroad. Love my 05!

Jwlochal · **Joined:** Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:42 pm **Posts:** 11

arengant wrote:

Mine is great offroad! I don't tow a lot, I just wanted good mpg and torque for offroad. Love my 05!

I really like the way yours looks too! very cool Jeep!

Big Montana · **Posted:** Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:00 am

Mine is a daily driver and it has been for 114k. I have felt very safe in this Jeep in Michigan winters. I like the AWD option our Jeeps come with in the transfer case. I have had my Jeep in full time 4wd for months now, and I can get through pretty rough snow and ice. I've towed a pop-up a few times with it, and the rear tire mount is a pain because the tire gets in the way. It isn't short on power though for a 3500 lbs. trailer.

The real issue for you is the maintenance history of the Jeep. These engines have some issues if the EGR is still on. Timing belt is a must at 100k if not sooner. I'm not sure I would go into one of these Jeeps without having a good understanding of what the previous owner did to the engine.

Jwlochal · **Joined:** Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:42 pm **Posts:** 11

Big Montana wrote:

The real issue for you is the maintenance history of the Jeep. These engines have some issues if the EGR is still on. Timing belt is a must at 100k if not sooner. I'm not sure I would go into one of these Jeeps without having a good understanding of what the previous owner did to the engine.

It has a carfax report but other than that there is no way to know what has been done. Its bone stock from what I can tell. I do like to work on my vehicles and am good with keeping up with the maintenance. The timing belt will get done by a mechanic though, not that daring. Is that a every 100k thing? I hear a lot of people telling me that they need lots of attention but others are saying its a million mile engine. Is it that finicky that I will be spending every weekend in my garage trying to keep it running? Is it that much less reliable than the 3.7?

Big Montana · **Posted:** Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:10 pm

Every weekend in the garage? I don't think so. I think a lot of us spend a lot of time on these because we've become obsessed. Mine has never broken down other than a dead battery and SKIM (spelling?) module during my first two weeks of ownership in 2005.

I have spent money on the GDE tunes, because it saves the engine from the EGR valve. If this Jeep is bone stock then your oil has been exposed to nasty soot for its entire life. That means the intake is packed with soot and oil paste, and there are new opinions forming that this soot paste is grinding down our lifters and the little bearings inside the valve cover.

The timing belt is a big issue because of cost and the lack of understanding by mechanics even at dealerships. My dealership broke the belt while taking it off and stripped the threads on the intake camshaft bolt hole. It seems to be okay, but my next belt job may be tough without the ability to hold my camshaft in place.

The third issue is air in the fuel system. I've never had a problem with stock equipment, but others have had air leaks that mess with the fuel injectors.

Those are not the only three issues with this Jeep, but those are the three maintenance areas I've paid attention to, and I seem to be fine.

Read the NOOB guide and you'll see a lot more. If you buy, you'll have a great resource here. As long as the engine doesn't blow up (bad timing belt), everything else can be repaired and fixed.

My Jeep is stock except for the GDE tunes. Any other changes are meant for longevity and not performance. An example would be my SAMCO CAC hoses rather than the Mopar brand.

kjjet · **Posted:** Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:12 pm

If you do not know the history? I would plan on Spending $$ on a GDE tune, do a timing belt along with removing the intake for inspection. Don't forget to install new glow plugs.

Build in a few thousand $ for this prior to purchase and do it prior to start driving.

Big Montana · **Posted:** Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:23 pm

I've not had problems with my glow plugs, but that isn't a bad idea to be prepared for. There will be a check engine light on if they are bad though.

Almost bought a crd but have a lot of questions.

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