transmission woes

farmall · **Posted:** Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:06 am

I have an 05 CRD (automatic) which I bought about 4 years ago. It had approx 90K miles and I have added another 60K. I guess 60K because my odometer is not working. Last week I was coming home from a job and had just driven 175 interstate miles without issues. Pulled into a parking lot and the liberty lurched a bit as I was parking. Came back from store, went to back up and the lib moved about 5' and lurched/stopped. Even in neutral it seemed like it was locked in gear. I had it towed home and put it on jackstands where it will turn the rear wheels but not without odd transmission sounds. Trans fluid looks good at correct level. What has happened and what are my repair options? What parts need to be upgraded? Thanks in advance guys.

LMWatBullRun · **Posted:** Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:49 pm

farmall wrote:

I have an 05 CRD (automatic) which I bought about 4 years ago. It had approx 90K miles and I have added another 60K. I guess 60K because my odometer is not working. Last week I was coming home from a job and had just driven 175 interstate miles without issues. Pulled into a parking lot and the liberty lurched a bit as I was parking. Came back from store, went to back up and the lib moved about 5' and lurched/stopped. Even in neutral it seemed like it was locked in gear. I had it towed home and put it on jackstands where it will turn the rear wheels but not without odd transmission sounds. Trans fluid looks good at correct level. What has happened and what are my repair options? What parts need to be upgraded? Thanks in advance guys.

Don't know, need more information.

Q- any codes? CEL on?

Q-have you checked the 4wd control handle to see whether there is any play?

Q-have you had any issues with the Jeep not moving when first started after an overnight shutdown?

Q- how long has it been since a fluid/filter change in the transmission? Are you certain beyobd any doubt that the right fluid was used?

farmall · **Posted:** Sat Mar 02, 2013 7:07 am

LMWatBullRun wrote:

farmall wrote:

I have an 05 CRD (automatic) which I bought about 4 years ago. It had approx 90K miles and I have added another 60K. I guess 60K because my odometer is not working. Last week I was coming home from a job and had just driven 175 interstate miles without issues. Pulled into a parking lot and the liberty lurched a bit as I was parking. Came back from store, went to back up and the lib moved about 5' and lurched/stopped. Even in neutral it seemed like it was locked in gear. I had it towed home and put it on jackstands where it will turn the rear wheels but not without odd transmission sounds. Trans fluid looks good at correct level. What has happened and what are my repair options? What parts need to be upgraded? Thanks in advance guys.

Don't know, need more information.

Q- any codes? CEL on?
"the CEL has been on since the ABS wires cracked and broke. have not checked CEL lately"

Q-have you checked the 4wd control handle to see whether there is any play?
"not sure what you mean here but it is not in 4WD"

Q-have you had any issues with the Jeep not moving when first started after an overnight shutdown?
"no but I usually warm it up somewhat first"

Q- how long has it been since a fluid/filter change in the transmission? Are you certain beyobd any doubt that the right fluid was used?
"have not changed fluid it a bit"
What are syptoms of fried automatic clutches?

Drewd · **Joined:** Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:24 pm **Posts:** 902

The 545rfe is a reliable tranny. The POS OEM torque converter isn't and is responsible for many failures include mine 3 months ago.

Suggest you replace torque converter and front pump, new filters, and you should be good to go.

farmall · **Posted:** Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:49 pm

As it turns out the TQ had given up. The trans cooler lines became blocked with little bits of innards and the planetary glued itself together. $1509 later the trans was rebuilt. Such is life but I got about 150K off of the lod transmission. Thanks for your help.

audiboy86 · **Posted:** Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:57 pm

Yah another SC CRD owner sucks about the transmission you could of gotten a reman one and new converter for that though.

Rixram · **Posted:** Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:43 pm

Hi fellas. Sorry to hijack, but I came across this, and am wary about my transmission right now.

On daily start-up, when I go to back out from my garage, I noticed that the transmission lacks a certain level of "oomph" that it recently had. When placed into reverse (again, this is in the AM when backing out of the garage), it barely registers the gear change (from momentum); once I press the throttle a little, then it reacts fine.

HOWEVER, twice (one this past weekend, again this AM) the Jeep shuddered when shifting from reverse to drive, once having backed out. The first time, the Jeep stalled. This am, I caught it in time and put the trans in neutral.

When it happened this past weekend, I added a quart of ATF4, having noted the level was low. I have not checked today (level), but just bought 2 qts of NAPA ATF4, so I can check when I leave work for the day.

-Original TC
-135,000 miles
-No CEL
-ECO Tune
-GDE TCM

Does this sound like the original TC dying, a symptom of low fluid or something extremely unpleasant?

Edit: Once warm, the transmission behaves normally. This issue (weak/stall) occurs only on startup.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:13 pm

Rixram - could be low fluid or could be the tranny fluid drain back problem given that it sounds like this only happens after the vehicle sits over night. The drain back problem typically occurs after the vehicle has been parked for over night or a full 8 hr workday and is often sporadic and it's not uncommon for the vehicle to stall if you try to drive off before fluid is pumped up. If you crank up and bring the idle up to like 1500 rpm for 10-15 seconds in park that's usually long enough to pump tranny fluid back up and you won't have the problem.

Early on there was a batch of bad Mopar tranny filters that contributed to this problem and some have found the cure to be a tranny fluid service with new filters (be sure to seat them properly or you will have other problems). Others have had issues until they put in a Transgo kit or a new tranny pump, the latter involves dropping the tranny.

Try the tranny service route. FYI you can live with the problem with no harm essentially forever if you do the high idle before driving off trick. By the way tranny fluid drain back has been a DCJ issue for decades.

PS at 135K miles I assume you have already had the timing belt service done.

Rixram · **Posted:** Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:41 pm

papaindigo wrote:

Rixram - could be low fluid or could be the tranny fluid drain back problem given that it sounds like this only happens after the vehicle sits over night. The drain back problem typically occurs after the vehicle has been parked for over night or a full 8 hr workday and is often sporadic and it's not uncommon for the vehicle to stall if you try to drive off before fluid is pumped up. If you crank up and bring the idle up to like 1500 rpm for 10-15 seconds in park that's usually long enough to pump tranny fluid back up and you won't have the problem.

Early on there was a batch of bad Mopar tranny filters that contributed to this problem and some have found the cure to be a tranny fluid service with new filters (be sure to seat them properly or you will have other problems). Others have had issues until they put in a Transgo kit or a new tranny pump, the latter involves dropping the tranny.

Try the tranny service route. FYI you can live with the problem with no harm essentially forever if you do the high idle before driving off trick. By the way tranny fluid drain back has been a DCJ issue for decades.

PS at 135K miles I assume you have already had the timing belt service done.

I'd seriously like to have the suncoast TC put in, but I'm not willing to do the work, nor am I "rich" enough to pay for it to be done.

I went ahead and added another quart of fluid when I left work, as the trans was, this time, slow to engage for forward.

It looks like I'd better sked some service on this puppy. Get a flush and filter change.

And I changed the timing belt last summer. Yes, I was waaay over (to a startling amount, to some), but I was gentle on it, and it endured. Three Lost Jeeps members were there for the change as well (Striperman, Doc444 and RacerTracer).

ChooChooman74 · **Posted:** Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:04 pm

Rix, too bad my tranny guy in Framingham is at ChooChoo U. I would refer you to him. He works the rails and owns a tranny shop. We were actually surprised he went to become an engineer.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

Rixram · **Posted:** Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:05 pm

ChooChooman74 wrote:

Rix, too bad my tranny guy in Framingham is at ChooChoo U. I would refer you to him. He works the rails and owns a tranny shop. We were actually surprised he went to become an engineer.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

Best of luck to him!

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:28 am

Rix,

Just want to make sure you are checking the fluid level on level ground, HOT, with the engine running, in PARK, just after having shifted back and forth from D to R a few times.

(Normal level COLD, having sat overnight with engine OFF, is about 1 1/2 to 2 inches ABOVE FULL.)

Also, got to find why the fluid is leaving.

Hope you are well...

DOC

ChooChooman74 · **Posted:** Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:44 pm

Rixram wrote:

ChooChooman74 wrote:

Rix, too bad my tranny guy in Framingham is at ChooChoo U. I would refer you to him. He works the rails and owns a tranny shop. We were actually surprised he went to become an engineer.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

Best of luck to him!

He should be back in a 2 weeks or so. He should still have time to look at it.

Rixram · **Posted:** Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:30 pm

DOC4444 wrote:

Rix,

Just want to make sure you are checking the fluid level on level ground, HOT, with the engine running, in PARK, just after having shifted back and forth from D to R a few times.

(Normal level COLD, having sat overnight with engine OFF, is about 1 1/2 to 2 inches ABOVE FULL.)

Also, got to find why the fluid is leaving.

Hope you are well...

DOC

I did see that my trans oil dipstick was not seated correctly in the fill/indicator tube. I think it'd been out like that for a while. Since I have no drip marks under the vehicle, I suspect that is the culprit, if there is a fluid loss. At this point, I suspect a thorough flush with a filter change is most definitely in order.

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:49 pm

Do you see signs of fluid on the dipstick/filler tube?

DOC

Rixram · **Posted:** Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:12 am

DOC4444 wrote:

Do you see signs of fluid on the dipstick/filler tube?

DOC

No, I didn't, but I had also not checked the level in ages (bad, I know).

It is at the local stealership now getting a flush and filter change.

Rixram · **Posted:** Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:02 am

Rixram wrote:

DOC4444 wrote:

Do you see signs of fluid on the dipstick/filler tube?

DOC

No, I didn't, but I had also not checked the level in ages (bad, I know).

It is at the local stealership now getting a flush and filter change.

Okay; we are now two months later, since the trans service, filter change & flush. There wasn't any abnormal debris in the system when they did the work, so nothing appears to be disintegrating.

The trans still needs about 10 seconds at idle (about 3-4 at 1K rpms if I'm pressed for time) to build up the requisite pressure. Once the pressure is up, the trans acts fine (note: only an issue from a cold-start).

My only concern is that I am about to get a boat and do limited towing. My initial haul, to deliver the boat, will be about 50 miles. Following that, it'll be a 4-5 mile jaunt to the launch ramp and back each time. The towed weight will be 4500-5000 lbs. I have towed more than that in the past (albeit for short distances), and I always use low range while on the launch ramp, which should help keep stress off of the TC by having the low range do all the heavy lifting.

Someone above had mentioned something about a pump before. Can you elaborate more, please? thanks.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:34 am

Generally the failure to engage when first started after sitting for 6-8hrs + is the tranny drain back problem and most times that's a filter problem. Apparently one of the 2 filters has some sort of internal check valve or it can be a split filter or an incompletely seated filter (IIRC one is press on and requires some degree of force to seat) Use only OEM filters or brand name filters like WIX never a "deal" off ebay and of course use only ATF+4.

If that's not it the cause can be:
1. low fluid - several folks have said the tranny is happier is the dipstick shows a bit over filled. FYI you can crimp the tranny dipstick tube to hold the dip stick in place of worm clamp a bit of 2 sided velcro to the tube to tie down the loop at the top of the dipstick like I did.
2. I'm not completely sure but the tranny valve body can also contribute to the problem. Installation of the transgo kit (excluding the resister if it comes in the kit) valve body parts is supposed to help.
3. the original OEM front pump (have to pull the tranny and the torque convertor to get too it) apparently has a "soft" valve seat that can wear. Fix is to replace with the new style pump (PN 68009879AB plus gasket if my notes are correct) or if the seat is ok I think the transgo kit has a replacement part that makes the original pump ok.

IMHO if you are in that far do yourself a long term favor and toss on a Euro torque convertor.

Of course if all you have is drain back with fluid level ok, no TC shudder, and if the problem does not occur if you crank up/put in park/hold a high idle say 1000-1500 for like 15 seconds before shifting into gear you can just drive it with no problems. I did for like 20k miles before adding SunCoast TC and transgo kit.

naturist · **Posted:** Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:53 pm

I just got back from the transmission shop where they replaced the pump and TC because I have had the lack of fluid where it needs to go, slow to engage the gears problem for a long time, and had in the last 20,000 miles developed the shudder at 60 mph under certain loads/throttle conditions. I noted the slow to engage issues 100,000 miles ago, and it came and went, seemed least common with fresh fluid and filter, but has slowly gotten worse and worse, and now happens at least once a week, and not always overnight. It sometimes happens after only an hour or so of drain time. And it can take 30-40 seconds in park with the engine revved up to 2,000 rpm to get the fluid pumped up so things work properly.

I believe it was time for both the original 2005 early F37 recall TC and pump to be replaced.

So the lesson here for the OP is that this is not an immediately fatal, fix it now or else, kind of problem. It may or may not be fixed with a fluid and filter change. But even if fixed with that fairly inexpensive treatment, may reoccur some day down the line. But you can go a long time with that particular issue.

For what it is worth, it cost me $550 for the pump kit and TC and $625 for the labor and new fluid/filter. My Jeep has 168,000 miles on it, btw.

Rixram · **Posted:** Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:14 pm

naturist wrote:

I just got back from the transmission shop where they replaced the pump and TC because I have had the lack of fluid where it needs to go, slow to engage the gears problem for a long time, and had in the last 20,000 miles developed the shudder at 60 mph under certain loads/throttle conditions. I noted the slow to engage issues 100,000 miles ago, and it came and went, seemed least common with fresh fluid and filter, but has slowly gotten worse and worse, and now happens at least once a week, and not always overnight. It sometimes happens after only an hour or so of drain time. And it can take 30-40 seconds in park with the engine revved up to 2,000 rpm to get the fluid pumped up so things work properly.

I believe it was time for both the original 2005 early F37 recall TC and pump to be replaced.

So the lesson here for the OP is that this is not an immediately fatal, fix it now or else, kind of problem. It may or may not be fixed with a fluid and filter change. But even if fixed with that fairly inexpensive treatment, may reoccur some day down the line. But you can go a long time with that particular issue.

For what it is worth, it cost me $550 for the pump kit and TC and $625 for the labor and new fluid/filter. My Jeep has 168,000 miles on it, btw.

This is very reassuring. Thanks so much!

transmission woes

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