Looking for somebody to work on a 2006 DIESEL Jeep Liberty.

jrsavoie · **Posted:** Sat Jun 01, 2013 1:03 pm

Looking for somebody to work on a 2006 DIESEL Jeep Liberty. It has a stuck exhaust valve. The head is off.

Near Clifton, Illinois.

The vehicle was taken to a mechanic. He pulled the head and diagnosed the problem. I was told the lower end is good.

I am looking for advice on how to proceed from here.

What does it take to re-install a head?

What parts and special tools will I need?

I would actually just as soon have somebody familiar with these vehicles work on it for me. I have 4 6.5 diesel GM's that need work. I have to farm something out. It just as well be something I've never looked at before.

The Liberty does include a new timing belt.

Looking to get the head repaired and put back together. A new head or a complete engine.

I am also looking for a repair manual for this vehicle/engine. If anybody has a link, I would appreciate it immensely.

What collateral damage should I look for?

Any links to info on DIESEL Jeep Libertys would be appreciated

I have not actually seen the vehicle and it will be a day or 3 before I actually have possession.

Hexus · **Posted:** Sat Jun 01, 2013 1:21 pm

Welcome, first and foremost.

Answers to just about all of your questions, including the link to the service manual and parts fiche, can be found here: http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=54207

Read that first.

Insofar as putting the head back on, I as well as many here would recommend using ARP studs, but be careful not to overtorque them as you'll oval the glow plug recesses.

Talk to or PM LMWATBULLRUN for torque values with the ARP studs, he can assist you there more than most.

The only tools you're going to need outside of a torque wrench and typical hand tools are VM.1052, VM.1053 and VM.1089, which should already be installed in your vehicle if the guy taking it apart had any clue what they were doing.

VM.1052 and VM.1053 are the intake/exhaust pins that lock your cams in place while the head is off or the cam sprockets are off, and VM.1089 is the pin that goes into your flywheel to keep the crank in time with the cams. THIS IS THE ONLY WAY TO TIME THIS VEHICLE!!!!

Having not taken a valve out personally, I will leave that to others that have, I've only been deep enough for the rockers/lifters.

You should replace them while you're in there by the way, and seek a GDE tune immediately after.

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Sat Jun 01, 2013 9:28 pm

^^ what he said ^^

although I will add - no one's mentioned a stuck valve - you would be the first - however

many folks have had problems with the valve rocker arms - if someone wasn't looking for that - they wouldn't suspect it - it's not a normal engine fail - but they are the designed weak point for this engine and the EGR system seems to kill the rollers in the rocker so on a stock EGR engine - they probably should be changed with the timing belt.

jrsavoie · **Posted:** Sun Jun 02, 2013 2:09 pm

I am going to assume the mechanic did not put the pins in. Where does that leave me now for a start point?

papaindigo · **Posted:** Sun Jun 02, 2013 2:52 pm

jrsavoie - I'd suggest checking with Sir Sam but...
1. the cams are in the valve cover, not the head, so are the cams still in place in the cover? If so are the pins in place? If yes to both then pins were used. However, I'll bet either the cams are no longer in the cover and/or the pins are not in place. If yes to either then it really doesn't matter if he used pins as you will need to have the valve/cam/crank mechanical timing reset and even if he did use pins who ever puts this back together would be nuts not to recheck timing. It shouldn't be that big a deal. I suspect the easiest approach would be to manually rotate the engine until the flywheel pin or a 6mm allen key (see 05 FSM how to) can be used to pin the flywheel. Leave that in place while doing the rest of the work to keep the crank locked in the proper position. Going out on a limb here I'd think you could insert the cam pins before putting the cover back on which would have them in the right position relative to the crank. Then of course double check by pulling all 3 pins and rotating/repining the engine to be sure. ANYONE CAN CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG. ZERO PRIDE OF AUTHORSHIP.
2. if the cams are not in the cover don't ask me how to tell intake cam from exhaust cam; at least I guess they are different.
3. I don't suppose whomever took this apart was smart enough to witness mark the CP3 pump position. There is a "timing" mark for it but it doesn't line up on every rotation and I don't know how to retime it or if doing so is important.

I'm really curious how the "stuck" valve determination was made. Not that a stuck valve is impossible but I'd think it much more likely that the valve was not "stuck" rather it was not opening/closing because of a failed lifter. In any case since you are in this far all your lifters need very careful inspection and in any are questionable replace them all. In fact if I was in this far I'd probably just forget the inspection and replace them.

jrsavoie · **Posted:** Sun Jun 02, 2013 3:38 pm

Replacing the lifters is just something I do when I'm there, for the most part. Same with glow plugs, injectors and timing components.

All of my other vehicles are GM 6.5 diesels 94 - 98. Except one International.

I have some health issues that often limit my clarity and make me tired. Sometimes extremely so. Consequently I do not get as much done as I need to.

papaindigo wrote:

jrsavoie - I'd suggest checking with Sir Sam but...
1. the cams are in the valve cover, not the head, so are the cams still in place in the cover? If so are the pins in place? If yes to both then pins were used. However, I'll bet either the cams are no longer in the cover and/or the pins are not in place. If yes to either then it really doesn't matter if he used pins as you will need to have the valve/cam/crank mechanical timing reset and even if he did use pins who ever puts this back together would be nuts not to recheck timing. It shouldn't be that big a deal. I suspect the easiest approach would be to manually rotate the engine until the flywheel pin or a 6mm allen key (see 05 FSM how to) can be used to pin the flywheel. Leave that in place while doing the rest of the work to keep the crank locked in the proper position. Going out on a limb here I'd think you could insert the cam pins before putting the cover back on which would have them in the right position relative to the crank. Then of course double check by pulling all 3 pins and rotating/repining the engine to be sure. ANYONE CAN CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG. ZERO PRIDE OF AUTHORSHIP.
2. if the cams are not in the cover don't ask me how to tell intake cam from exhaust cam; at least I guess they are different.
3. I don't suppose whomever took this apart was smart enough to witness mark the CP3 pump position. There is a "timing" mark for it but it doesn't line up on every rotation and I don't know how to retime it or if doing so is important.

I'm really curious how the "stuck" valve determination was made. Not that a stuck valve is impossible but I'd think it much more likely that the valve was not "stuck" rather it was not opening/closing because of a failed lifter. In any case since you are in this far all your lifters need very careful inspection and in any are questionable replace them all. In fact if I was in this far I'd probably just forget the inspection and replace them.

jrsavoie · **Posted:** Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:03 pm

The vehicle was taken to a dealership. The guy that worked on it didn't have a clue.

They charged over $1000 for a non-diagnosis and dismantled the engine down to the block. I am going to find the name of the dealership and make sure I never do business with them.

All the parts above the block are in the back of the Liberty.

What a mess to start with.

The guy had it that far tore down and still didn't have a clue what was wrong.

jrsavoie · **Posted:** Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:18 pm

The Liberty has 142,000 miles on it

Things to do.

The timing belt was changed not to long ago. Is there a brand of timing belt that is better than others?

The differentials and transmission have never been serviced to my knowledge.

M1-301 Mobile 1 oil filter

Amsoil European engine oil spec'd by Amsoil tech services

Are there any air filters better than others?

Clean MAP

ARP head studs

EGR delete

Elephant hose fix

injectors - Are there recommended injectors or pressure settings for these engines?

Glow plugs - are there recommended glow plugs? For the old GM 6.5 diesels you only want to use Duraterms or AC Delco 60 G glow plugs All the others are junk. Is there a similar situation on parts for these Jeeps?

Head gasket recommendations?

From my experiences with the GM 6.5 diesels, There are usually brands of parts you want to stay away from and others that you want to use. Some aftermarket upgrades are a huge improvement over OEM.

geordi · **Posted:** Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:35 am

Good god, what a mess of a place to be in.

Did you pay the dealership with a credit card? For your sake, I certainly hope so. You can get your money back!
Call your card issuer, and begin the process of a chargeback once the charge is finalized through the bank / credit card (not still showing as pending) and explain that you contracted for services of repairing your vehicle... And they failed mightily in this, leaving you worse off than at the start AND demanding money to get your property (vehicle) back, even in pieces.

PM me for my phone number if you are interested, I can step you through most of that process (I did it successfully for about $600 in "diagnostics" and got every penny back) as well as talk to you about the actual repairs and your options.

It is too late at night here to get into it tonight, but this is not a lost cause, and resetting the timing is a simple matter right now. Pins are irrelevant at the moment, and you don't need to worry about the flywheel pin at all. Just get your Jeep FAR away from those incompetent idiots at the dealer.

jrsavoie · **Posted:** Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:00 am

Thanks,
i WILL BE GETTING IN TOUCH WITH YOU.

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Tue Jun 18, 2013 6:24 pm

you might want some suitable for framing photos of the engine as received from the dealership

and the name of a local lawyer as a backup

thermorex · **Posted:** Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:13 pm

jrsavoie, I'd say the best mechanic is you, if you have the time and patience. If you don't, this could cost you some and there is always the risk to run into an idiot.

Taking out the head is really the easy part, once you get to remove the engine accessories to be able to remove the head. All the torque values are in the FSM that you can download thanks to Sir Sam (the links are in the noob guide). You can set the engine timing yourself from 0, there is only one way to set the cams so the cam pins fit in, the cp3 fuel pump has it's own marks and you can also set it correctly when the timing belt will be installed. As ATXKJ said, make sure you really have a bad valve first, it may not even be necessary to take the head out (not sure if it is in the trunk or still on the engine block). If you want to make sure, it will only cost you a head gasket from what I know (assuming the head is good and also the valves are ok). Replacing the injectors may also not be necessary, and if it is, you may replace them any time after you put your engine together (if they are indeed bad), I think Keith from GDE has some, but I also think the computer needs to be reflashed for new injectors. I hope that whoever took them apart numbered them since the position matters. There is a rocker arm walkthrough in the tech subforum if you want an idea of what you should expect. Getting a GDE tune won't require an egr delete, especially since keith said it is not recommended to totally delete it (some pressure considerations that I do not remember unfortunately). That rocker arm walkthrough has Hexus' etechno metallic glow plugs in, or at least a link to his original post where he has more details about them and where to buy them from. Head gasket has some holes on the side (don't remember left or right, I think is the driver side though but not sure) there is a tab with no holes, 1 or 2, depending on what you had, you should get the same.

Too bad you don't live in Cleveland area, I could help you every now and then...

jrsavoie · **Posted:** Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:29 am

Still trying to educate myself and make a parts list. I come up with more questions as I go.

Got deeper into the Jeep. I am condemning the engine. Found out the cam was scored and bent.

I'm looking for a replacement. Any options would be appreciated.

Found out today that the dealer also pulled all of the injectors and never did a compression test before he pulled the head and lost the head gasket.

He never labeled the injectors. Do these injectors need to go back in the same holes they came out of?

Is there someplace I can send these injectors to have them tested?

jrsavoie · **Posted:** Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:14 pm

Now the dealership says they did do a compression test and that there was no compression on cylinder 2. Now I will have to pull the plate covering the block and look at the piston.

Is there a possibility that one of the valves was not closed when they did the test - since the rockers were broken, I would think it's a distinct possibility

geordi · **Posted:** Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:36 pm

Hoo boy.

The injectors do have to go back in a certain order, but that is an easy thing at this point. There is a big barcode sticker on the front of the outer timing cover, and the code under that barcode corresponds to the numbers on the injectors - reading from left to right, match the 6-digit code on each injector (sorry, not sure of exact location on the injector) to 6 digits of the barcode. Cylinder one will be the first 6 characters, 2 will be the next 6, etc.

Now... About the compression test. If the cam was bent, then it is certainly possible that a valve was jammed open. What you need to do with the head is to take it to a head shop and ask them to do a vacuum test on each valve, and inspect the valves and guides for proper function. Should be about $100, maybe less.

If / when you pull the plate on the top of the block - what plate? Is this just a protective cover? That would have been the first thing I removed, and had a good look at the engine proper. Anything looking chewed or impacted... That piston would be highly suspect, and the bottom end needs an inspection too.

Before attempting to rotate the engine with the pistons exposed, install at least 2 short bolts and washers that overlap the cylinder liner, to hold the liner in place while you mess around. You don't need any extra problems, right?

Good luck with it. Like was said above, YOU are probably the best mechanic for your CRD at this point, and we are the best resource in the world for them to help you.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

jrsavoie · **Posted:** Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:06 pm

The plate is a protective plate that my brother installed.
I've been battling other issues while trying to get through this.
I've been waiting on getting my shop somewhat workable again before pushing the Jeep in and pulling the plate.

A big reason why I would like to farm this job out to somebody familiar with these vehicles.

It's bad enough to go in ignorant and blindsided, to try and work in a shop who's walls don't hit the ground is all but impossible.

A guy on facebook told me that his was diagnosed the same way. He had a small piece of carbon keeping one of the valves from closing.
I took the head in, they cleaned it and said it was good to go. $375

The exhaust cam does not look bent, only scarred a little. At this point there is no telling what it looked like before they tore it apart.

I was told at the git-go that the block looked good from the top, But I have never seen it. It's high on my list, but I have to work my way to the point that I can get it in the shed.

geordi wrote:

Hoo boy.

The injectors do have to go back in a certain order, but that is an easy thing at this point. There is a big barcode sticker on the front of the outer timing cover, and the code under that barcode corresponds to the numbers on the injectors - reading from left to right, match the 6-digit code on each injector (sorry, not sure of exact location on the injector) to 6 digits of the barcode. Cylinder one will be the first 6 characters, 2 will be the next 6, etc.

Now... About the compression test. If the cam was bent, then it is certainly possible that a valve was jammed open. What you need to do with the head is to take it to a head shop and ask them to do a vacuum test on each valve, and inspect the valves and guides for proper function. Should be about $100, maybe less.

If / when you pull the plate on the top of the block - what plate? Is this just a protective cover? That would have been the first thing I removed, and had a good look at the engine proper. Anything looking chewed or impacted... That piston would be highly suspect, and the bottom end needs an inspection too.

Before attempting to rotate the engine with the pistons exposed, install at least 2 short bolts and washers that overlap the cylinder liner, to hold the liner in place while you mess around. You don't need any extra problems, right?

Good luck with it. Like was said above, YOU are probably the best mechanic for your CRD at this point, and we are the best resource in the world for them to help you.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

jrsavoie · **Posted:** Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:44 am

Several people have recommended getting a lawyer.

Can anybody recommend a lawyer in North eastern Illinois? Or any that might handle the case?

Chrysler customer service told me to stuff it.

Anybody?

I talked to the dealership in Kankakee, They said I got ripped but there was nothing they could do for me.

At first they said they could put the Jeep back together, til I told them the condition everything was in. Then they said sorry, they didn't want to get involved in this basket case. I'd be best off to go with a new engine.

JeepCoMj · **Joined:** Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:54 pm **Posts:** 161

Well, I'm excited to see this thing arrive tomorrow so we can get the motor replaced!

naturist · **Posted:** Sat Oct 26, 2013 3:11 pm

I gather that you've gotten a whole new motor for it? Regardless, I do hope your last post means you'll have it running soon.

Your tale of woe and intrigue reminds me of a bud in college back in the 60s who bought for essentially nothing a disassembled Sunbeam Tiger. Some rich kid was given a new one, and for reasons nobody could figure out, decided to take it apart to see what made it tick. It had like 2,000 miles on it. The kid took absolutely every bolt on it out, threw all the pieces in boxes, and of course couldn't put it back together again, so he sold it to my bud, who spent his off hours for the next couple years putting it back together. It was like a giant puzzle, and of course, a whole lot simpler than cars today. Perhaps that kid grew up to become the mechanic who took yours apart?

Anyway, it sounds like you now have a suitable puzzle for some mechanically inclined guy to while away the next few years figuring out.

jrsavoie · **Posted:** Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:20 am

Pat has found more damage done by the dealership. pearlchryslerjeepdodge as he started looking at the Jeep. A missing boost hose. Several bent lines and other damage done during dis-assembly. Missing hardware - which was expected.

Idiots.

I will never deal with that dealership and will probably never buy another Chrysler or Jeep product again.

I'll be looking for good dependable 6.5 diesel powered vehicles.

Wish I could stuff the engine out of my International box truck in something and make use of it. Any ideas on that?

Looking for somebody to work on a 2006 DIESEL Jeep Liberty.

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