Got hot while towing

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

GTS,

Here is a link for the coolant gauge temp readings. Some of the 2005 models had a bad calibration that was fixed with a TSB software update, maybe yours did not get it.

http://www.greendieselengineering.com/f ... st/19.page

The engine has built in overheat protection and you can run with the gauge pegged if needed, it will automatically cut fuel and turn off the AC if the coolant temp reaches about 240 F. Once the mechanical fan engages (requires the gauge to be up above 3/4 slightly for most CRDs).

Your situation sounds normal for a short term pull.

GTS · **Posted:** Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:20 pm

Based on that link I'm guessing it was in the 230° range. I've heard the fan kick on on my F-250 once or twice before but it was always slower stop and go situations and as soon as I got moving it kicked right back off. Can anyone confirm that the fan will move more air than 60mph? I may be a newbie to this CRD but not even close to a newbie on cars or working on them. And from my past experience a fan isn't ever going to flow as much air as moving 50-60mph.

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

An engaged mechanical fan pulls much more air through cooling stack at 60mph than the effects of vehicle speed airflow.

thermorex · **Posted:** Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:30 am

GreenDieselEngineering wrote:

An engaged mechanical fan pulls much more air through cooling stack at 60mph than the effects of vehicle speed airflow.

This actually makes sense since on the top of vehicle speed (where air gets through the radiator due to vehicle's speed) there is an extra air flow caused by the fan. Per an earlier post from Keith, the mechanical stock fan fully engaged can pull about 5200-ish cfm. The only problem that could limit the mechanical fan performance at high speeds would be the air speed that gets through the radiator and would tend to slow it down, which I think isn't that great but never measured it, so I can't make a certain statement.

GTS · **Posted:** Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:49 pm

If the frontal area of the radiator is one foot by one foot and you're traveling at 60mph that'd be 5,280 cfm. Yeah the grill is in the way etc but the air still has to go around it so it's not really diverting much air away from the radiator, also the radiator is more than 12" X 12". Seems if you were doing maybe 40mph the fan clutch would possibly flow more. You also have the inefficiencies of the fan not pulling the air through the entire radiator and more through the middle, yes the shroud helps this but still isn't as good as the full frontal area of the radiator getting hit by oncoming air.

In any which case from what was said earlier it sounds like it wasn't hot enough for the fan to kick on if it doesn't come on until over 3/4 of the gauge and I was just at it. We have another trip planned next weekend so I'll see how it does for it.

Is there any way to tell if it got the updated flash for the gauge? As in do they put a sticker under the hood or in the door jamb or something?

papaindigo · **Posted:** Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:02 pm

No sticker, no nothing and I have the updated flash simply because I took the TSB in to the dealer and demanded they put the DRB or whatever tool on the system and check given that my gauge went to 3/4 on a dead flat N. FL road at 60mph towing 2,000 lbs of boat. The deal being I would pay for 15 minutes of shop time if the tool said my gauge did not need the flash (which the tool will do) and they would eat the work under the TSB if the flash took. Did not make the ticket writer happy but the flash took so I did not pay.

If your gauge does go to 3/4 and you have an IR temp gun you can check the actual temp at the tstat housing and compare it to the 2 gauge calibrations to make a determination. See posts at viewtopic.php?f=5&t=75603 for more info.

I'm not going to get into a debate about how much air is or is not forced thru the front stack (AC condenser/tranny cooler, intercooler, and radiator) at any particular forward speed or the + or - of having a fan shroud, etc. But I will comment that any sort of obstruction of flow thru that stack (bugs, dust, dirt, etc) INCLUDING a dead and/or stationary fan can cause problems. I know some folks run with no mechanical fan (I won't go that far and would put money on that not working at 118F ambient in AZ) and that may be successful because enough air moves thru the stack with no mechanical fan blades behind it.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:44 pm

papaindigo wrote:

... and that may be successful because enough air moves thru the stack with no mechanical fan blades behind it.

And because the electric fan comes on at 205 deg F.
With the A/C on, the electric fan is always on.

zoomcamper · **Joined:** Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:53 pm **Posts:** 9

Installed the FT GD ECO TUNE.

Towing on the Ohio Turnpike eastbound with a loaded trailer of 4354 lbs; driving 63 MPH with crusie control on (sometime it could do before, due to a trannmission down shift, if a semi passed) and we got 15.8 MPG. There were no downshifts when going over an overpass, speed dropped 4 MPH but the FT tunes extra torque made a huge difference. The return trip with no water, but against the west wind , used 8.4 gallons of fuel - 20.2 MPG .

Engine temp never when passed 1/2 gauge with A/C running.

The extra 65 ft-lbs of torque is a big difference, now it tows like it did when I bought it, but with 108,000 miles it useful life is just about done. Many other parts will need to be replaced and then there is the weak tranmission. Why could we (CRD owners) have optioned for a NV4500 manual?

My speedometer reads high by 1 mph so 63 is really 62, the odometer is also off bythe same amount. Used stopwatch and mile markers on the Ohio Turnpike eastbound, used 30 timings.

GTS · **Posted:** Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:43 am

OK so the next trip with the T@B last weekend pulling some of the hills the temp gauge got a little past 3/4 of the gauge. I never did hear the fan kick on so I'm guessing that may be an issue. Still you'd think they would put a large enough radiator in these things to keep them from getting so hot. My F-250 with a partial fill in the block and making 400+hp to the wheels pulling 10K behind me doesn't even get to the middle of the gauge. Wish they would have overbuilt the cooling system on these things like that. Does anyone know of any better aftermarket radiators for these? Does the V6 happen to have a larger radiator? And if so will it work on the CRD with the IC piping and all up front?

ChooChooman74 · **Posted:** Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:32 am

GTS wrote:

OK so the next trip with the T@B last weekend pulling some of the hills the temp gauge got a little past 3/4 of the gauge. I never did hear the fan kick on so I'm guessing that may be an issue. Still you'd think they would put a large enough radiator in these things to keep them from getting so hot. My F-250 with a partial fill in the block and making 400+hp to the wheels pulling 10K behind me doesn't even get to the middle of the gauge. Wish they would have overbuilt the cooling system on these things like that. Does anyone know of any better aftermarket radiators for these? Does the V6 happen to have a larger radiator? And if so will it work on the CRD with the IC piping and all up front?

What were you turning for RPMs when it was getting hot???

Infinite_Karma · **Posted:** Sat Apr 19, 2014 2:03 am

I know this reply is a bit late, but I figured I'd add the TSB details just in case it wasn't fixed:

As papaindigo already stated, the TSB details almost all of these CRD's overheating symptoms, and this thread (viewtopic.php?f=5&t=22370&hilit=TSB+dealership) echos the TSB issues as well.

"NUMBER: 08-043-05
GROUP: Electrical
DATE: August 11, 2005

THIS BULLETIN IS BEING PROVIDED IN ADVANCE. DO NOT PERFORM ANY ACTIONS RELATED TO THIS BULLETIN UNTIL AUGUST 26, 2005. THE DRB III SOFTWARE VERSION MUST BE AT LEVEL 62.2 TO PERFORM THIS BULLETIN. THE DRB III SOFTWARE WILL BE AVAILABLE ON TechCONNECT BY AUGUST 26, 2005. FOR MARKETS OUTSIDE OF THE UNITED STATES AND CANADA, THE DRB III VERSION 62.2 SOFTWARE WILL BE AVAILABLE ON CINONConnect AND TechCONNECT BY AUGUST 26, 2005. THE DRB III VERSION 62.2 SOFTWARE WILL ALSO BE AVAILABLE ON THE ITIS DVD SEPTEMBER 2005 RELEASE.

SUBJECT: Engine Temperature Gauge - Indicator Reads A Higher Temperature Than Actual
OVERVIEW: This bulletin involves reprogramming the instrument cluster control (CCN) module.
MODELS: 2005 (KJ) Liberty / Cherokee
NOTE: This bulletin applies to vehicles equipped with a 2.8L turbo diesel engine (sales code ENR).
SYMPTOM/CONDITION: The customer may notice that the engine temperature gauge may indicate that the engine temperature is high. In hot ambient temperatures, and under certain driving
conditions of extended uphill driving while towing a trailer, the engine temperature indicator may indicate slightly above the 3/4 normal operating temperature mark on the temperature gauge (but below the engine hot temperature markings). This condition may be caused by an incorrect calibration of the of the engine temperature gauge. New CCN module software corrects the old engine temperature gauge calibration.

DIAGNOSIS: If the engine and the cooling system are operating correctly, and the above condition is present, then perform the Repair Procedure.
SPECIAL TOOLS/EQUIPMENT REQUIRED: CH6000A Scan Tool (DRBIII®)

NUMBER: 08-043-05
GROUP: Electrical
DATE: August 11, 2005
CH7000A/7001A J1962 Cable with red DRBIII® connector
REPAIR PROCEDURE:
NOTE: Before proceeding verify that the DRBIII® software version is at level
62.2.
1. Connect the DRBIII® to the vehicle Data Link Connector (DLC)
2. Turn the ignition switch to the "ON" position.
3. Using the DRBIII® scan tool recalibrate the instrument temperature gauge.
a. Select "DRBIII® Standalone"
b. Select "1998 - 2006 Diagnostics"
c. Select "All (Except Below)"
d. Select "Body Interior"
e. Select "Electro/Mech Cluster (MIC)"
f. Select "Miscellaneous"
g. Select "Recalibrate Temp Gauge" option.
4. If the recalibration of the instrument cluster was successful, the DRBIII® will display the following message: "Recalibration Successful".
5. If the version level of the original instrument cluster software allows recalibration, but the recalibration of the instrument cluster was NOT successful, then the DRBIII® will display one of the following messages: "Recalibration Failed" or "Write To Memory Address Failed". If one of these messages occurs repeat the above steps.
6. If the instrument cluster has already been recalibrated to the correct software version level, then the DRBIII® will display the following message: "Gauge Already Recalibrated - Press Any Key to Exit".
7. The DRBIII® will display the following message if the original instrument cluster software version level is not the correct version level for recalibration: "MIC Software Version Incorrect - Press Any Key to Exit".
8. Verify that the instrument cluster engine temperature gauge has been recalibrated by selecting the "Recalibrate Temp Gauge" option again. The DRBIII® should display the following message: "Gauge Already Recalibrated - Press Any Key to Exit".
9. Turn the vehicle ignition switch to the "OFF" position
10. Disconnect the DRBIII® from the vehicle DLC.

POLICY:
Reimbursable within the provisions of the warranty.
TIME ALLOWANCE:
Labor Operation
No:
Description Amount
08-45-10-94 Reprogram Instrument Cluster Control (CCN) Module - 2.8L Turbo Diesel Engine Only 0.2 Hrs.
FAILURE CODE:
AM Authorized Modification"

CATCRD · **Posted:** Tue Jun 30, 2015 11:27 pm

GreenDieselEngineering wrote:

GTS,

Here is a link for the coolant gauge temp readings. Some of the 2005 models had a bad calibration that was fixed with a TSB software update, maybe yours did not get it.

http://www.greendieselengineering.com/f ... st/19.page

The engine has built in overheat protection and you can run with the gauge pegged if needed, it will automatically cut fuel and turn off the AC if the coolant temp reaches about 240 F. Once the mechanical fan engages (requires the gauge to be up above 3/4 slightly for most CRDs).

Your situation sounds normal for a short term pull.

I'm looking for the cluster pictures with the temperatures marked on them. Above link is dead. Anyone got them? I thought I had saved them to my hard drive but I can't find them now.

LibertyFever · **Posted:** Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:48 am

Is this what you're looking for? I don't know if it applies to a CRD or a gasser.

I have a device plunged into my OBDII port that displays a digital value for my water temp. Much more informative than the gauge on the dash.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

CATCRD · **Posted:** Thu Jul 02, 2015 11:47 pm

Thanks. That's one of them. Looks like the updated calibration. The earlier 2005s had slightly more resolution and a lower top end. That's the one I'm looking for since I am still at that revision. Are you using a Bluetooth adapter in your obd? Mine freezes after 20 minutes, as do most CRDs.

LibertyFever · **Posted:** Fri Jul 03, 2015 7:51 am

No, my device isn't Bluetooth.
I believe it's similar to this;
https://www.google.ca/aclk?sa=L&ai=CEMk ... canada.com
I have it sitting on to of my centre console.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

CATCRD · **Posted:** Sat Jul 04, 2015 12:22 am

OK I also have a scangauge II. Works great on my other vehicles but also freezes on the CRD.

Can anyone else point me to the other coolant gauge diagram?

LibertyFever · **Posted:** Sat Jul 04, 2015 6:24 am

Can you tell me CATCRD if your scangauge displays the trans temp?
Mine doesn't. I've had a lot of trans overheating problems and would like to see the trans temp before the Overtemp light comes on.
I guess I'll have to add one.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

CATCRD · **Posted:** Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:14 am

It does not. I found an xgauge that shows it on my Ford but not on the jeep.

I have a custom trans temp gauge and I can tell you the highest I have seen is 215F and the trans temp light was not on.

Found the pictures:
http://www.greendieselengineering.com/j ... st/19.page

Got hot while towing

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