stranded due to key - Going back to dealer again

Big Montana · **Posted:** Mon Sep 16, 2013 4:02 pm

I drove my car to town, came out after 10 minutes and my key fob wouldn't work. I openned the door manually knowing that the alarm would go off, but I figured the key turned in the ignition would kill the alarm. I was wrong. The car started and then died. The horn kept going. I had to pull the battery. I put a new battery in the key and reconnected the battery. The horn picked up again and the key fob could not turn it off.

Should a key work even with a dead battery in the key unit? Could this be the key or the car? I'm waiting on my wife to bring me my other key fob. I would love advice while I wait.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Mon Sep 16, 2013 4:13 pm

You can only start the Liberty with a properly programmed key.
Sounds like your key lost its programming.

Big Montana · **Posted:** Mon Sep 16, 2013 4:17 pm

flash7210 wrote:

You can only start the Liberty with a properly programmed key.
Sounds like your key lost its programming.

I must have walked by a radio active rock then. I have no idea how I lost programing. I hope my other key works.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Mon Sep 16, 2013 4:23 pm

If the other key doesn't work you may need a new SKIM module.

Same thing happened to me back in 2009.
Quick stop at the dry cleaner. Get back in car and turn key.
Red dot lit on dash, engine cranks but won't start.
Had to have it towed to dealership.
To fix it, dealership had to replace SKIM module and program two new keys.

Big Montana · **Posted:** Mon Sep 16, 2013 4:27 pm

flash7210 wrote:

If the other key doesn't work you may need a new SKIM module.

Same thing happened to me back in 2009.
Quick stop at the dry cleaner. Get back in car and turn key.
Red dot lit on dash, engine cranks but won't start.
Had to have it towed to dealership.
To fix it, dealership had to replace SKIM module and program two new keys.

That all sounds very expensive. I had a new skim at mile 95 back in 2005. I didn't pay then obviously.

ebbnflow · **Posted:** Mon Sep 16, 2013 4:30 pm

One of my remote keys died a while back. My symptoms were red light on dash kept flashing. Car would start, run for a couple of seconds then stop. All remote functions worked fine. Turned out to be transponder in key died. Had to call locksmith to program new key since I only had 1 left. I still use remote portion of key to this day. I cut key part of remote off and put it on a key ring with new programmed key. Saved me a lot of $$ as remote keys are much more expensive than the keys themselves.

Big Montana · **Posted:** Mon Sep 16, 2013 4:36 pm

ebbnflow wrote:

One of my remote keys died a while back. My symptoms were red light on dash kept flashing. Car would start, run for a couple of seconds then stop. All remote functions worked fine. Turned out to be transponder in key died. Had to call locksmith to program new key since I only had 1 left. I still use remote portion of key to this day. I cut key part of remote off and put it on a letting with new programmed key. Saved me a lot of $$ as remote keys are much more expensive than the keys themselves.

I just got my second key. It doesn't work either. Must be the skim. The alarm just keeps sounding and I cand get the buttons to do anything.

Is it possible that the fact I left the ELM reader plugged in by accident could have caused the skim to die?

papaindigo · **Posted:** Mon Sep 16, 2013 4:45 pm

Might be the skim although IIRC:
a. that module is a replaceable part of the BCM so you don't have to do the whole thing. I seem to recall a post with pics on the topic from maybe Sir Sam but unfortunately it was far enough back to be before I was bright enough to start saving that sort of thing.
b. there is an "antenna" wire near where the ignition key goes in that if broken means the system won't pick up the signal from a valid key.

Could be wrong as I'm doing this from distant memory.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Mon Sep 16, 2013 4:46 pm

I don't think you ELM thingy had anything to do with it.
Sometimes these parts just quit working.

Big Montana · **Posted:** Mon Sep 16, 2013 4:52 pm

Well, I hope that the dealership is gentle. I'm waiting for a tow, and I'm going to the guys I hate the most. SWEET!

I can get the car to start and run for a few seconds as it checks the chip, but it stalls out each time.

Billwill · **Posted:** Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:33 am

papaindigo wrote:

Might be the skim although IIRC:
a. that module is a replaceable part of the BCM so you don't have to do the whole thing. I seem to recall a post with pics on the topic from maybe Sir Sam but unfortunately it was far enough back to be before I was bright enough to start saving that sort of thing.
b. there is an "antenna" wire near where the ignition key goes in that if broken means the system won't pick up the signal from a valid key.

Could be wrong as I'm doing this from distant memory.

The Remote Locking Module...to open/close doors with key fob......is a replaceable part of the BCM but this has nothing to do with this problem.

I know that the SKIM Module on my 2002 Export module is definitely a seperate module bolted onto the top of the steering column...includes the antennae loop bit that wraps around the key entry slot on the ignition tumbler...this loop picks up the signal from the chip in the key so I am pretty sure all year models will be the same...OP needs to check the Service Manual/Parts Fiche from SAMS' NOOB Guide.

I have been involved with a few similar problems posted either on Lost or some other KJ forums whereby the problem of the alarm going off was because of a fault with the "Hood Open Switch" being faulty so the BCM thinks someone is trying to hot wire your Jeep......for this problem though I would suspect the ECM has lost its mirrror image of the SKIM code, the SKIM module has lost the key code or the SKIM Module is faulty.

Big Montana · **Posted:** Wed Sep 18, 2013 5:27 am

Though I've not gotten the Jeep back yet, they say that they have identified the problem. There were several voltage issues in between a few of the modules, and they located several breaks in the wiring harness. This makes sense to some degree because I lost my AC over the summer due to a frayed wire near the block on the driver's side. Since that was fixed, I've had the ABS light pop on a few times and the brakes would activate the "anti-lock" feature even under normal braking conditions. We'll see if this is the issue.

jrsavoie · **Posted:** Wed Sep 18, 2013 7:29 am

IS there any way to disable / eliminate the programmed key. I'd just as soon have a push button starter switch. I always swore I would never have a key that had to be programmed. I've seen to many related problems on all brands of vehicles

Definitely do not need a programmed key, and definitely do not want one.

Just what purpose do these programmed keys serve?

Is there a way to swap them out?

I do not want any

Big Montana · **Posted:** Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:08 am

jrsavoie wrote:

IS there any way to disable / eliminate the programmed key. I'd just as soon have a push button starter switch. I always swore I would never have a key that had to be programmed. I've seen to many related problems on all brands of vehicles

Definitely do not need a programmed key, and definitely do not want one.

Just what purpose do these programmed keys serve?

Is there a way to swap them out?

I do not want any

Based on how the computers are linked to the security system, I'm sure it would be impossible to eliminate the key. The programmable key keeps the car from being stolen. I live near Detroit. I'm happy to have it.

jrsavoie · **Posted:** Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:28 am

Big Montana wrote:

jrsavoie wrote:

IS there any way to disable / eliminate the programmed key. I'd just as soon have a push button starter switch. I always swore I would never have a key that had to be programmed. I've seen to many related problems on all brands of vehicles

Definitely do not need a programmed key, and definitely do not want one.

Just what purpose do these programmed keys serve?

Is there a way to swap them out?

I do not want any

Based on how the computers are linked to the security system, I'm sure it would be impossible to eliminate the key. The programmable key keeps the car from being stolen. I live near Detroit. I'm happy to have it.

If anybody knows how to eliminate the necessity of a programmed key, I would be all over that mod.

I'm not at all worried about somebody stealing my vehicle.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Wed Sep 18, 2013 11:06 am

With the little bit of research I have done, there seems to be no way to bypass or disable the SKIM. However, there are some technologically advanced car thrives that are able to steal cars equipped with an immobilizer/SKIM.
The way these keys work is there is an RFID tag inside the key. That tag is programmed to work with the SKIM. In order for the car theif to be successful he has to scan the SKIM frequencies and decrypt the RFID code. This can be done with a laptop and a RF analyzer. The laptop would be needed every time the theif wants to start the car or until a legitimate key can be programmed.
There is no way around it. The RFID code is required for starting the car.

Probably the only way for the vehicle owner to by pass this is to disassemble and remove the RFID tag from inside the ignition key. Then glue that tag somewhere near the SKIM antenna on the steering column. As long as the SKIM sees the proper RFID signal, any key that is properly cut can be used to start the car.

jrsavoie · **Posted:** Wed Sep 18, 2013 11:34 am

flash7210 wrote:

With the little bit of research I have done, there seems to be no way to bypass or disable the SKIM. However, there are some technologically advanced car thrives that are able to steal cars equipped with an immobilizer/SKIM.
The way these keys work is there is an RFID tag inside the key. That tag is programmed to work with the SKIM. In order for the car theif to be successful he has to scan the SKIM frequencies and decrypt the RFID code. This can be done with a laptop and a RF analyzer. The laptop would be needed every time the theif wants to start the car or until a legitimate key can be programmed.
There is no way around it. The RFID code is required for starting the car.

Probably the only way for the vehicle owner to by pass this is to disassemble and remove the RFID tag from inside the ignition key. Then glue that tag somewhere near the SKIM antenna on the steering column. As long as the SKIM sees the proper RFID signal, any key that is properly cut can be used to start the car.

Sure seems to me that if something is programmed that there ought to be somebody out there that create a work around

flash7210 · **Posted:** Wed Sep 18, 2013 11:50 am

I suppose its not impossible...

It would seem to me that for aftermarket alarm systems that provide remote start features, a
SKIM bypass would be necessary. But I don't know anything about aftermarket alarm systems.

Big Montana · **Posted:** Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:32 am

My wife just picked up the Jeep. It ran fine but she drove across the street and the dash lost all power. The engine ran, but the gauges shut off and the chimes started going. Then the ABS light came on along with the CEL and Brake. everything cMe back on and then it went off again. It did this until she got back to the dealer. She said it still ran fine though.

I have a feeling my Jeep is going to be a torn open all over the dealership floor as they try to trace this little gremlin.

I also suspect my GDE tune is going bye bye. At least I live close to GDE.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:51 am

What's the age and condition of the vehicle battery?

stranded due to key - Going back to dealer again

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