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 Post subject: Re: pulsating lights on my liberty (moved from General)
PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 3:34 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:26 am
Posts: 844
Location: Hoedspruit , South Africa
GreenDieselEngineering wrote:
The service manual most likely was not updated properly.



I agree with this.....there are major contradictions between the Theory of Operations and the Circuit Diagrams throughout the Service manual. :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: pulsating lights on my liberty (moved from General)
PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:37 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 6:55 pm
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Location: vancouver b.c.
I have not checked on this post for a while and wow . thanks fellas for all the input . one thing I need to add is this . last time I came back home from the job (out in the bush) I had removed the tranny had it rebuilt and put it back in with the euro t.c. . long behold the problem seems to have gone away as reported by my better half . eager to find out after this tour once I get home . will report on it later . food for thought . :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: pulsating lights on my liberty
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:24 pm 
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Billwill wrote:
Looking at the circuit diagram for the 2006 CRD it looks like the alternator is the same as the previous models....it does not have a built-in regulator but gets its field coil pulses from the ECM as usual.

The Black wire on the small connector goes to ground at G111 via connector C108...there could be a bad connection in the C108 connector or the ground point itself at G111 might be bad. You could try splice in another ground from a good clean chassis point into the Black lead right near the small connector that plugs onto the alternator. You can never have too many grounds so it is worth trying this as a temporary measure.

The Brown/Dark Green wire from the small connector goes to the BCM Connector C1 pin 18 via connectors C114 and C120..you may have a bad connection here somewhere as well. The connector locations are shown in the Circuit Diagrams.

If you do not have the circuit diagrams they are part of the 2006 KJ Service Manuals...you can find the link in SAM's Noob Guide.

I personally would cut he Brown/Dark Green wire near the small connector and also cut this wire at the BCM connector C1 pin 18...in case this wire is fraying to chassis somewhere. The I would replace this disconnected wire with a temporary wire going straight from the small plug on the alternator straight to Pin 18 on connector C1 at the BCM...bypassing the connectors C114 and C120 altogether. This may sound a bit drastic but it is easy to solder the wires back in place and insulate the joins with shrink tubing. I had to do this several times to repair 6 faulty wires on my 2002 CRD!

I believe on the 2006 CRD the field coil on the alternator is activated via the BCM only when the RPM goes above 2,000 RPM at which stage the Pulsed Width Modulation pulses are applied to the field coil to increase/decrease the charging rate....this may be why there is a difference between low idle....no problem...and high idle...problem.

All of these controls and sensing of the status of the Headlight switch etc. are done inside the BCM...this is shown as a "Black Box" in the circuit diagrams so it is impossible to see what goes on in there. You can try re-plugging the connectors on the BCM or in the long run you may need to get the BCM re-programmed or replaced. :(

Do you hear the High Beam Relay...on front of internal fuse panel...chattering while the high beams are flickering?

Edit to add: I really do not trust the documentation too much as far as how the charging system works....there are so many contradictions between the Theory of Operation and what the circuit diagrams show. The Theory states that + 12 volts is supplied to the +side of the field coil from the ASD relay. The other side of the field coil is connected in series with the regulation circuitry inside the PCM to switch this other side to ground to regulate current....this is how it is done in my 2002 CRD. In actual fact the circuit diagram shows the other side of the field coil (Black wire) going straight to ground while the Brown/Dark Green wire goes via the BCM to... I presume a regulated +12 volts pulsed current supplied by the PCM.

So it is best to be very wary when following my advice of cutting the leads at the small plug and replacing them with a direct wire to ground on the one side and with a direct wire the pin 18 on C1 of the BCM...If I was there I could assertain which is correct...the circuit diagram or the Theory of Operation....I believe the Circuit Diagram is correct and that the Black wire goes direct to ground and the Brown/Dark Green wire goes to Pin 18 on connctor C1 of the BCM and that the BCM in this case is regulating the Positive side of the field coil :shock:

You need a meter capable of seeing a fluctuating voltage across both the battery and the headlights! :wink:

very in depth and informative - thank you - i must start with------ the pulsating lights issue has cleared itself as re ported by my roommate and confirmed by myself. so o o o o... the only thing that i have changed is a rebuilt transmission. could it be the solenoid block? shorting out perhaps? btw my alternator only has one field wire going to it so i tend to believe the bcm is in control of alternator output . my schematics show two wires going to it--- go figure


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 Post subject: Re: pulsating lights on my liberty
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:43 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:26 am
Posts: 844
Location: Hoedspruit , South Africa
crdvictim wrote:
Billwill wrote:
Looking at the circuit diagram for the 2006 CRD it looks like the alternator is the same as the previous models....it does not have a built-in regulator but gets its field coil pulses from the ECM as usual.

The Black wire on the small connector goes to ground at G111 via connector C108...there could be a bad connection in the C108 connector or the ground point itself at G111 might be bad. You could try splice in another ground from a good clean chassis point into the Black lead right near the small connector that plugs onto the alternator. You can never have too many grounds so it is worth trying this as a temporary measure.

The Brown/Dark Green wire from the small connector goes to the BCM Connector C1 pin 18 via connectors C114 and C120..you may have a bad connection here somewhere as well. The connector locations are shown in the Circuit Diagrams.

If you do not have the circuit diagrams they are part of the 2006 KJ Service Manuals...you can find the link in SAM's Noob Guide.

I personally would cut he Brown/Dark Green wire near the small connector and also cut this wire at the BCM connector C1 pin 18...in case this wire is fraying to chassis somewhere. The I would replace this disconnected wire with a temporary wire going straight from the small plug on the alternator straight to Pin 18 on connector C1 at the BCM...bypassing the connectors C114 and C120 altogether. This may sound a bit drastic but it is easy to solder the wires back in place and insulate the joins with shrink tubing. I had to do this several times to repair 6 faulty wires on my 2002 CRD!

I believe on the 2006 CRD the field coil on the alternator is activated via the BCM only when the RPM goes above 2,000 RPM at which stage the Pulsed Width Modulation pulses are applied to the field coil to increase/decrease the charging rate....this may be why there is a difference between low idle....no problem...and high idle...problem.

All of these controls and sensing of the status of the Headlight switch etc. are done inside the BCM...this is shown as a "Black Box" in the circuit diagrams so it is impossible to see what goes on in there. You can try re-plugging the connectors on the BCM or in the long run you may need to get the BCM re-programmed or replaced. :(

Do you hear the High Beam Relay...on front of internal fuse panel...chattering while the high beams are flickering?

Edit to add: I really do not trust the documentation too much as far as how the charging system works....there are so many contradictions between the Theory of Operation and what the circuit diagrams show. The Theory states that + 12 volts is supplied to the +side of the field coil from the ASD relay. The other side of the field coil is connected in series with the regulation circuitry inside the PCM to switch this other side to ground to regulate current....this is how it is done in my 2002 CRD. In actual fact the circuit diagram shows the other side of the field coil (Black wire) going straight to ground while the Brown/Dark Green wire goes via the BCM to... I presume a regulated +12 volts pulsed current supplied by the PCM.

So it is best to be very wary when following my advice of cutting the leads at the small plug and replacing them with a direct wire to ground on the one side and with a direct wire the pin 18 on C1 of the BCM...If I was there I could assertain which is correct...the circuit diagram or the Theory of Operation....I believe the Circuit Diagram is correct and that the Black wire goes direct to ground and the Brown/Dark Green wire goes to Pin 18 on connctor C1 of the BCM and that the BCM in this case is regulating the Positive side of the field coil :shock:

You need a meter capable of seeing a fluctuating voltage across both the battery and the headlights! :wink:

very in depth and informative - thank you - i must start with------ the pulsating lights issue has cleared itself as re ported by my roommate and confirmed by myself. so o o o o... the only thing that i have changed is a rebuilt transmission. could it be the solenoid block? shorting out perhaps? btw my alternator only has one field wire going to it so i tend to believe the bcm is in control of alternator output . my schematics show two wires going to it--- go figure


I have had a long discussion on this Regulator issue over on Jeepforums and I am still confused as to whether or not the regulation for the Alternator is still done by the ECM/PCM or is inside the alternator as Keith states... do not have a new KJ to check this all out.

You must have two wires going to the alternator field coil...unless they are using an internal ground on the alternator casing....there is a thick wire (Red or Green) going from the alternator to the positive terminal of the battery to carry the charging current from the alternator to the battery...are you not refering to this single wire?

Any form of overload/short could have caused your problem so yes the problem may well have been inside your transmission...lets hope it is fixed now!

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 Post subject: Re: pulsating lights on my liberty (moved from General)
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:50 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 3:14 pm
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Location: Sumter, SC
Keith is right about the alternator. Diesels only need one wire to excite the alternator to produce electricity. Gasser have another one for the coil. I had the same issue with my advance auto alternator (pulsating lights), which went away by replacing with old alternator with a new clutch.

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2005 kj CRD, samco, suncoast tc, provent, Kennedy lift pump, GDE ECO full torque, 2nd gen filter head, 245/70/16 a/t tires, mopar light bar, fumoto oil valve, OEM Skid Plates, ARB Front bumper and HD OME, tru cool LPD47391 40k GVW tranny cooler (stock cooler delete), FF Dynamics e-fan and shroud, rocker arms replaced, HDS2 190F thermostat.


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 Post subject: Re: pulsating lights on my liberty (moved from General)
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:11 am 
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Location: Hoedspruit , South Africa
thermorex wrote:
Keith is right about the alternator. Diesels only need one wire to excite the alternator to produce electricity. Gasser have another one for the coil. I had the same issue with my advance auto alternator (pulsating lights), which went away by replacing with old alternator with a new clutch.


I can believe that the CRD only needs one wire to "wake up" the regulator inside the alternator as Keith puts it.

It would seem then that 2005/6 gasser KJs still have the regulation done inside the PCM! :?

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 Post subject: Re: pulsating lights on my liberty (moved from General)
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:54 pm 
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Billwill wrote:
thermorex wrote:
Keith is right about the alternator. Diesels only need one wire to excite the alternator to produce electricity. Gasser have another one for the coil. I had the same issue with my advance auto alternator (pulsating lights), which went away by replacing with old alternator with a new clutch.


I can believe that the CRD only needs one wire to "wake up" the regulator inside the alternator as Keith puts it.

It would seem then that 2005/6 gasser KJs still have the regulation done inside the PCM! :?


I'm anything but an expert in electricity, but from what I know, the plus wire that goes into alternator (small gauge) is to energize the electromagnets so the alternator will start producing electricity when engine is running. I know you know this, I'm just adding some more info :). That wire should not have anything to do with regulator, which is used to stabilize the output so it won't fluctuate between low and high rpm.

In my particular case, the lights were pulsating, which can be one of the "classic" diodes in the regulator are getting bad. I swapped it and it fixed the issue. If the regulator wouldn't be in the alternator, I don't know what in the alternator could have caused the pulsating lights...

I also think I answered one of my own question now, was wondering what's the purpose of the clutch (or decoupler how it's also called). I was wondering why would somebody need a clutch in the alternator. I believe the pcm knows when there is enough power and commands the alternator to stop charging by cutting the power to the small gauge 1 wire. No plus going to that wire means alternator is not going to charge and will be spinning doing nothing. When pcm determines that charge is required, will power up the small gauge wire, so the alt will start charging. Since it can be possible that at higher rpm the sudden "start charging" is very rough on belt and bearings, they added that clutch/decoupler to smoothen this up.

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2005 kj CRD, samco, suncoast tc, provent, Kennedy lift pump, GDE ECO full torque, 2nd gen filter head, 245/70/16 a/t tires, mopar light bar, fumoto oil valve, OEM Skid Plates, ARB Front bumper and HD OME, tru cool LPD47391 40k GVW tranny cooler (stock cooler delete), FF Dynamics e-fan and shroud, rocker arms replaced, HDS2 190F thermostat.


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 Post subject: Re: pulsating lights on my liberty (moved from General)
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:08 pm 
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The alternator clutch a) smooths out the pulsing caused by the engines "firing" cycle which is more pronounced with a diesel vs. gasser and a 4 cylinder vs. more cylinders (I suspect this is why the serpentine belt tensioner "bounces when the clutch is bad - pulses are not dampened by clutch so they transfer to the tensioner) and b) to get rid of overrun on engine shut down (if you have ever been around or driven like a 1993 Dodge Cummins the overrun is what causes the characteristic "chirp" at shut down)

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