I've had a bit more than oil changes on my TDI... But then again, I bought it with 244k miles on it, and now 2 years later (next month) it has 312k miles.

It has been coast-to-coast on the biggest timing belt trip so far, over 8000 miles total in 6 weeks, and been to NYC pulling a trailer twice. It has been to NYC without the trailer three more times, two of those trips included Boston, one to Montreal.
Is that the starting strains of Johnny Cash's "I've Been Everywhere" I can hear?

I wouldn't have trusted the CRD to do all of that, certainly without some massive maintenance in there somewhere.

_________________
Proud supporting vendor of LOST Jeeps
TRAVELING CRD TECH. I come to you!
Need help? Just ask! I've taken it apart more than most.
Email jeep [at] maincomputer [dot] com - BOARD MESSAGING IS BROKEN
Over 225 CRDs currently driving with my valves, timing belt, rockers, or ARP Studs.
Bad noises = REALLY bad things.

I have an '05 Passat TDI that has had to have major engine work (timing gears when chain failed) and transmission work done. I have a friend with a Jetta TDI who I helped clean the intake manifold...pencil-thin air inlets from so much carbon buildup.

So in my experience, TDI's aren't exactly bulletproof, either. YMMV.

_________________
George Reiswig
2005 Jeep Liberty CRD
Suncoast, SEGR, lift, InMotion tune, homebrew B100
At 138k, new head & gasket, timing belt, rockers and swearing vocabulary

My 2005 crd is my second diesel jeep, My first was a 2003 crd 150bhp loved the car owned it for 3years, Towed a trailer with a weight of over 2 tons across Spain in the heat several times. The car was faultless with 105000 miles. What the hell has happened with the 2005+ crd. I know it has a bit more power but what the hell have they done to that engine? I have just spent today removing the turbo to fit a replacement and wile im at it got rid of the egr and the plumbing. Soot and cr-p just about every were. Lets hope that this is the end of problems I have found with this car and concentrate doing the mods I hand planned. That's when I have some cash back in my pockets lol

_________________
2005 KJ RENAGADE 2.8 CRD 6 SPEED NP242 FULLTIME 4X4

True.. there are issues with all cars. But if maintained correctly the good ones stand out. VW is one of those. Jeep is not.

All Diesels in the us are having soot issues due to EPA EGR & DPF mandates. That's the biggest issue with the CRD. With my VW TDI i have a new Rawtek exhaust and Malone tune. No soot is going to eat up my engine.

_________________
05 Liberty CRD Sport with Leather 115k
GDE ECO, No EGR, no FCV, (system gone)
Oil Drain plug P/N 090-039
K&N Air Filter, 2nd gen Fuel filter head
NEW Rockers & lifters
Mobil 1 0w-40
Stant 13519 195 deg inline Thermostat.
0 281 002 845 MAP
Etecno GX3123 7v Glow Plugs
Advance Gold 800CCA Battery
Traded it for a Quality VW TDI

The correct way is the only way!

_________________
05 Liberty CRD Sport with Leather 115k
GDE ECO, No EGR, no FCV, (system gone)
Oil Drain plug P/N 090-039
K&N Air Filter, 2nd gen Fuel filter head
NEW Rockers & lifters
Mobil 1 0w-40
Stant 13519 195 deg inline Thermostat.
0 281 002 845 MAP
Etecno GX3123 7v Glow Plugs
Advance Gold 800CCA Battery
Traded it for a Quality VW TDI

Kjjet, I'm happy you like your jetta, it's a car with very good fuel economy, especially the 1.9 tdi. But for somebody that wants the peace of mind when driving in the winter, when 1 ft of snow is not uncommon, or when you drive on unpaved roads, high incline steep roads, the crd is just in a different league. Many people in the tdi forum complain about the tdi, especially the new ones. Plus I asked some mechanics that work with imports, they consider vw's suspension as garbage and weak. I one had 3 WV I got new, and I had no issues with either, but I haven't owned one past 30k. With proper maintenance and some minor mods to fix Chrysler's screw-ups, the crd is a very reliable vehicle. Keep in mind your jetta is still new, I'd be interested to find out how it behaves at 100k plus, especially if you still use the egr and particulate filter.

Oh, I think jeep name came from GP (general purpose), but since Chrysler bought it, it became a sinonim to just empty every pocket.

_________________
2005 kj CRD, samco, suncoast tc, provent, Kennedy lift pump, GDE ECO full torque, 2nd gen filter head, 245/70/16 a/t tires, mopar light bar, fumoto oil valve, OEM Skid Plates, ARB Front bumper and HD OME, tru cool LPD47391 40k GVW tranny cooler (stock cooler delete), FF Dynamics e-fan and shroud, rocker arms replaced, HDS2 190F thermostat.

thermorex, The newer TDI's are 2.0 all cars can have issues. All aside the CRD was great in the winter. But my Ford Sportrac will run circles around the CRD in all conditions. So for me having another 4 wheel drive with the issues it had?

I am glad there are lots of people who love their CRD's. I would still have mine without the problems I and lots of people have had. I wish you all good luck and with my experiences I will still help the ones who what it. Several PM's have come to me and I do my best to help. This is clearly the best place out there. Great people.

Good luck!
KJJET

_________________
05 Liberty CRD Sport with Leather 115k
GDE ECO, No EGR, no FCV, (system gone)
Oil Drain plug P/N 090-039
K&N Air Filter, 2nd gen Fuel filter head
NEW Rockers & lifters
Mobil 1 0w-40
Stant 13519 195 deg inline Thermostat.
0 281 002 845 MAP
Etecno GX3123 7v Glow Plugs
Advance Gold 800CCA Battery
Traded it for a Quality VW TDI

This Forum is amazing .. I have read and read and read .
I posted in the newb forum a while ago . I have done many VW TDI timing belts and have been wrenching since high school.

I am just on the tail end of a rocker ( they where a mess ) replacement on my 2006 Liberty and I've run into a bit of a wall on the assembly on the TB stage .

I've pm'd with Hexus a bunch of times about the process.


I have everything back together , rockers in place and intake went on no problem . Injectors with new o rings and crush washers . Intake elbow , fcv with new gaskets etc ..

Did the timing belt as to the walk throughs .. moved the crank ccw a little bit to line up the belt as explained .. All my marks are lined up , pins are in place .. etc etc etc

Did the tension , torqued the cam sprockets . took all the pins out , and flywheel allen key .

I am turning the crank clockwise for the test turns , I can here the compression as I am turning and then it locks at 1/4 turn . I don't want to put too much force on it , but it seems to be bound up.

I can turn it back the 1/4 turn and everything lines up again and the pins go in and all my marks are lined back up again .

Thoughts?

Thanks
M

_________________
Mike__________________
Black 2006 KJ 2.8L CRD Sport
E-Tecno GX3123 7v Glow Plugs/Rockers/Lifters/Head Gasket/TB @ 277KM - Oct 2014
Transgo 45RFE-HD2 / Tranny Filters / Fresh Fluid - 284KM - Jan 2015

Pull glow plugs out so you can eliminate compression as the source for the lockup?

If all three pins lined up when it was tensioned and timed right, it's not good if there is a mechanical stop. 90 degrees past that inital set of timing marks would, IIRC, have the center two cylinders coming up to TDC.

It does seem to me to be pretty tricky to get the intake on without screwing up the rockers, since they just kind of perch on the valve stems. Did you use some guides to help make sure you were lowering the intake on very straight?

_________________
George Reiswig
2005 Jeep Liberty CRD
Suncoast, SEGR, lift, InMotion tune, homebrew B100
At 138k, new head & gasket, timing belt, rockers and swearing vocabulary

Thanks for the quick reply .
Ya seems weird .
I used 2 guide bolts. ( cut off longer old intake bolts ) followed the FSM for setting the intake and then the torque pattern .
I used assembly lube on each valve tip for the rocker to stick it in place .

I also replaced the glow plugs with ETECNO's so will be easy to get them out .

Cheers ,
M

_________________
Mike__________________
Black 2006 KJ 2.8L CRD Sport
E-Tecno GX3123 7v Glow Plugs/Rockers/Lifters/Head Gasket/TB @ 277KM - Oct 2014
Transgo 45RFE-HD2 / Tranny Filters / Fresh Fluid - 284KM - Jan 2015

One thing doesn't fit for me from your explanation:

You seem to say that you moved the crank back one tooth, as is shown on one of the videos about getting the timing belt tensioning right? But then you say you later torqued the cam gears into place?

If you had the cam gears loose, there should have been no need for that "move the crank back one tooth" step. You just get it set up right at #1 cylinder 90 degrees ATDC, make sure the allen wrench finds the hole in the crank indexer, make sure the cams have their index pins in place, put the belt on, tension it up, and then torque the cam gears to fix them to the cams. That should be perfect timing.

So did you try to do a hybrid of two different processes? That video is to get marks to line up when you have not removed/loosened the cam gears.

_________________
George Reiswig
2005 Jeep Liberty CRD
Suncoast, SEGR, lift, InMotion tune, homebrew B100
At 138k, new head & gasket, timing belt, rockers and swearing vocabulary

I did the same when I changed the belt. Just turn the crank backwards to the starting point, 90 degrees past TDC. Put in the crank pin and look at the cam locking pin holes. If they don't line up, mark the gear and the plate behind. Take off the belt and the cam will most likely move from the rocker pressure. Use a wrench to get the cam back in place and insert the cam pin. Remove cam gear any try again.
Always rotate the engine 720 degrees once or twice and check cam timing position. There is a reason for that. I know I have only done one of these, but by reading the manuals, thanks Sam!, and talking to GDE Keith? I was able to get through this only to be removed from commission 59k miles later.
Take your time, grab a breath and try again, always rotate.

_________________
'05 CRD Limited
Lt. Khaki
235's 75R16 -
InMotion Stage 2
SEGR - runnin' good
Cummings Lift pump
Fia - Winter / Summer Cover
Turbo Timer

Cam gears where finger tight , with no play in the belt between them , IP lined up . I had slack between the IP and the crank 1/2 tooth maybe. so I followed the instructions of slightly turning the crank ccw , belt slipped in the tooth and I turned it back taking up the slack and marks lined back up on the crank.

Belt took some finesse to get on the tensioner but it went . Tensioned fine

If a rocker can off would it bind after 1/4 or 90% turn ? Or bind from the get go .


M

_________________
Mike__________________
Black 2006 KJ 2.8L CRD Sport
E-Tecno GX3123 7v Glow Plugs/Rockers/Lifters/Head Gasket/TB @ 277KM - Oct 2014
Transgo 45RFE-HD2 / Tranny Filters / Fresh Fluid - 284KM - Jan 2015

'For the procedure where you are slipping the crank gear back one tooth, the cam gears should already be torqued. The only way those index marks on the cam gears mean anything at all is if the gear can't move against the cam. And, I should add, if those marks were made with the cam pins in place or with the engine working under a good timing belt.

For the procedure where the pins are all indexed, belt installed and tensioned, and THEN the cam pulleys torqued down, every pulley except the crank needs to be free to spin easily, including the gears on the cams. THEN you make indexing marks with all pins in place and the belt properly tensioned. I don't think you have to worry about indexing the pump, since it is just supplying pressure to the rail. Electrical impulses should be what control injection timing, IMHO.

As for whether a rocker being mismounted could cause interference, I don't know. If it were off the cam lobe altogether, I'd expect no interference (valve is seated permanently), but lousy performance and rattling as the thing flailed around under the intake. If it were partway off the valve, I don't know what might happen.

If it were me, and it felt for sure like a mechanical interference thing and not just compression, I'd be looking to take it back to where you could pull the intake and double check rockers, and at the same time really make sure you pick one procedure or the other to do the timing really right. I'd pick the second one, personally. Then, before I buttoned it up, I'd make sure I spun the motor several times before putting the timing cover and injectors back in, making sure all marks still line up , and that all pins go back in when they do line up. If they don't, put the pins back in, make new marks if needed with those in place, and start again.

If you had slack on the right side of the belt, that tells me that at least one cam gear was bound to the cam. But if the other one were free to slip...

EDIT: just thought of something. If one cam slipped but the other one didn't, I wonder if the intake and exhaust valves can interfere with one another? IOW if the two cams are timed just so, the valves might hit? I don't know if that is possible, but if so you REALLY wouldn't want to force anything for fear of bending valves or guides.

_________________
George Reiswig
2005 Jeep Liberty CRD
Suncoast, SEGR, lift, InMotion tune, homebrew B100
At 138k, new head & gasket, timing belt, rockers and swearing vocabulary

Took a break from it last night , but my first step will be to do the TB again with the method you have in your post with my current marks and see how it goes as suggested.

If this doesn't work I will take the intake back off to check if a rocker slipped off.
While the intake is off should re time of the crank to make sure that it is set properly . , and the Cams will be locked in place so they should be fine?

I've been combing the FSM and I am missing something ? I can't find " Refer to 9 - ENGINE/VALVE TIMING - STANDARD PROCEDURE" in the "NOTE: Before servicing the timing belt, the engine must be rotate to 90 degrees ATDC and alignment pin VM.1089 installed (Refer to 9 - ENGINE/VALVE TIMING - STANDARD PROCEDURE)."

So my question is , what is the "9 - ENGINE/VALVE TIMING - STANDARD PROCEDURE" ?

Thanks Again
M

_________________
Mike__________________
Black 2006 KJ 2.8L CRD Sport
E-Tecno GX3123 7v Glow Plugs/Rockers/Lifters/Head Gasket/TB @ 277KM - Oct 2014
Transgo 45RFE-HD2 / Tranny Filters / Fresh Fluid - 284KM - Jan 2015

mecne,

Did you have any rockers that lost the needle bearings inside the engine? This could pose a major issue if one is binding in the bottom end. If not, it could be out of time or a rocker fell off when the intake was installed. Hope it turns our well.

_________________
Providers of wholly developed aftermarket solutions for the KJ CRD.
(248) 977 - 9531

If it were me...if there is even an inkling that the rockers are off the cams or (as GDE here suggested) that parts are lost in the bottom end of the engine and causing problems, then turning the engine to get the timing done right might cause more problems.

Up to you to figure out how much risk is worth to you.

As for "9 - ENGINE/VALVE TIMING - STANDARD PROCEDURE" , I think you're thinking too hard. Do you have three indexing pins? Those and a good way to keep the cam gears from moving on the cams are all you need to do it right as far as I can tell.

The bottom line is this: if nothing in your engine is binding up (no lost needles from rocker failures, and no rockers are off their seats, and no other mechanical binding), timing the engine is actually surprisingly easy without keyways on the cam gears. Put the pin in the flywheel. Put the appropriate pins in the cams. Loosen the cam gears. If you feel like it, cycle the belt once with the tensioner in place and adjusted properly, just to make sure that there is equal tension on all spans of the timing belt. (As long as all those other pulleys and the cam gears are turning freely, this should be pretty unnecessary). Once you have the belt tensioned properly across all spans and with the tensioner in the right place, carefully torque down the cam gears, not allowing them to move. Make some indexing marks with a magic marker, for crank and both cam gears (and fuel pump if you feel like it). Remove all three indexing pins. Rotate the engine two turns of the crank and make sure that the marks all line up again on that second turn. Repeat that last step (turning the engine by hand) until you're satisfied that it will not skip, that the tensioner is staying in place, etc.

That's the timing part.

If the mechanical interference you say you are feeling is coming from the valves interfering with pistons or with one another, timing is probably the issue. If it is the rockers being not seated, or lost bearing needles or something, you need to fix that first before any timing gets done.
- If your timing is perfect but the rockers aren't seated properly, it won't run properly.
- If the rockers are perfect and nothing else is wrong but it isn't timed right, it won't run properly.

Both have to get done right.

If this makes no sense or only muddies the waters, PM me with a phone number and I'll try to get back to you. Sometimes actually talking is a better way to communicate.

_________________
George Reiswig
2005 Jeep Liberty CRD
Suncoast, SEGR, lift, InMotion tune, homebrew B100
At 138k, new head & gasket, timing belt, rockers and swearing vocabulary

Excuse me if this seems like a dumb question, but are you sure the crank is 90* past TDC? I ask because there is also a hole in the flexplate to pin it at TDC. Just double check that the witness mark on the crank pulley is pointing 90* towards the drivers side, and not straight up.

_________________
2005 Liberty CRD Limited
DIY Garage Remanufactured Engine with GDE Full Torque Eco Tune from mile zero.
ARP Studs
Cummins Lift Pump
Transgo HD2 Reprogramming Kit
DIY Rebuilt Tranny Pump
Suncoast Torque Converter
2nd Generation Fuel Head
Sears P1 Battery
Hot Diesel Solutions Thermostat

Not dumb at all. I wasn't aware that there is a hole in the flywheel also at TDC. The way I interpret the manual, the answer is yes.



The procedure in question is elaborated on beginning on page 9-242 of the manual. As I interpret it, crank at 90 degrees ATDC is the correct position for the cams also to have their locking pins put in place.

_________________
George Reiswig
2005 Jeep Liberty CRD
Suncoast, SEGR, lift, InMotion tune, homebrew B100
At 138k, new head & gasket, timing belt, rockers and swearing vocabulary

I redid the TB procedure when I got home tonight.
Everything was Pinned , left the cam gears loose , routed the belt over the tensioner and tensioned to spec . tightened the cam gears . Pins came out easy. Rotated by hand again 90 degrees and same hard stop. Backed it back to my marks , re inserted all pins with no problem



When I bought it , was blowing Black smoke under load / acceleration. Did all the easy troubleshooting , hoses/boost leak .. etc . etc .. etc.
Here are the rockers. One crushed lifter (back left) and one broken .

I think I have parts from the broken lifter accounted for.
The rollers look intact on all rockers , just very sloppy compared to the new ones.


All index pins are in , Intake and Exhaust cams , and 6mm allen key in the fly wheel (Proper pin wouldn't' go in)

Does the intake need to come off if I'm at TDC instead of 90 degrees ATDC on the crank and have to re adjust ?


This is what I am wondering .. I must have missed there was a witness mark on the crank pulley? Suffering from Information overload .. I have a bad habit of over researching things. "Analysis paralysis" my wife says . I work in IT and I can't help it ..


I finally found it in the FSM PDF that I have "ENGINE - 2.8L DIESEL 9 - 1679"
TIMING-VALVE
STANDARD PROCEDURE - LOCKING ENGINE 90 DEGREES AFTER TDC

Here are a few other pics , I know I like threads that people post pictures of their work areas .


The pile of parts


Thanks Again everyone for the Information sharing and tips..
Cheers,
Mike

_________________
Mike__________________
Black 2006 KJ 2.8L CRD Sport
E-Tecno GX3123 7v Glow Plugs/Rockers/Lifters/Head Gasket/TB @ 277KM - Oct 2014
Transgo 45RFE-HD2 / Tranny Filters / Fresh Fluid - 284KM - Jan 2015