help new crd owner

thermorex · **Posted:** Thu Dec 25, 2014 1:45 pm

I can feel the engine's "death rattle" without the fcv to quote gmctd, but that doesn't bother me, it does what any Diesel engine does when it's shutdown. The only possible use of that fcv is to stop a possible runaway diesel, but once you need that, there are more serious issues with the engine that hadn't been addressed in a long time. A properly maintained Diesel engine won't ever need a fcv as a runaway prevention.

gmctd · **Posted:** Thu Dec 25, 2014 2:55 pm

thermorex wrote:

I can feel the engine's "death rattle" without the fcv to quote gmctd, but that doesn't bother me, it does what any Diesel engine does when it's shutdown. The only possible use of that fcv is to stop a possible runaway diesel, but once you need that, there are more serious issues with the engine that hadn't been addressed in a long time. A properly maintained Diesel engine won't ever need a fcv as a runaway prevention.

Forgetting\ignoring, of course those Diesel fueled vehicles out in an oil patch where a methane\H2S leak is not recognized as a fuel by the semi-intelligent ECM, with resultant max-rpm runaway, not stoppable by key-off or battery-disconnect, and frantic fleeing the vicinity with intense quest for something to hide behind - usually results in new Diesel engines on the scrap market, some broke, some stressed beyond warranty considerations - good buys for the committed gear heads

But, ur rite - few Diesels are equipped with throttle-plates, for obvious reasons

Sabertooth · **Joined:** Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:22 pm **Posts:** 17

Ok I'll try this if it's safe on the engine. Does anyone know if there is a crd owner in this forum who lives in the Dallas area? As does anyone know of a diesel mechanic that knows these engines in the Dallas area?

Sabertooth · **Joined:** Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:22 pm **Posts:** 17

Ok after reading gmctd post I don't know weather to do it or not!?! Can it be done safely or not? What is a run away diesel?? And can it really not dead stop? This is all very confusing for me cause I know absolutely nothing about diesel engines.

Sabertooth · **Joined:** Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:22 pm **Posts:** 17

Ok I just YouTube runaway diesel and it scared the bejesus out of me. Is it possible that could happen with the FCV out?

Sabertooth · **Joined:** Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:22 pm **Posts:** 17

Gmctd you live in Tx could you pm so I could ask questions?

gmctd · **Posted:** Sat Dec 27, 2014 2:51 am

Sabertooth wrote:

Ok after reading gmctd post I don't know weather to do it or not!?! Can it be done safely or not? What is a run away diesel?? And can it really not dead stop? This is all very confusing for me cause I know absolutely nothing about diesel engines.

Ok, my bad - hope this is more helpful:
The KJ CRD target consumer was the soccer-moms and -dads that were looking for better fuel economy, but were totally unaware of Diesel-fueled vehicle concepts and operation
- gasoline engines function with a throttle plate which is closed at idle and key-off - this blocks air intake such that the compression stroke has little air to compress = engine stops smoothly
- Diesel engines have no throttle plate so pistons draw full volume of air on each intake stroke - at idle and key-off pistons continue to compress that full volume of air resulting in that massive death-rattle, shaking the entire vehicle -
I've had females squeal in terror during those initially-experienced death-throes known and accepted by all Diesel pickup drivers - not even good for Jeep sales
- KJ ECM closes the FCV at key-off, blocking air intake similar to a gasoline engine, so new-to-Diesel consumers would not constantly be returning the li'l puffer for warranty concerns: closed = no death-shake, rattle, and roll = soothing to wimmin occupants
- ECM immediatly opens the FCV when crankshaft stops rotating - if functional, you should hear the muted whirrrrr of the motor-driven gear-train after key-off

Note missing teeth on beige rack gear, crunched teeth on gray pinion gear:

Foto courtesy of can't remember who

ECM cycles FCV closed\open during wait-to-start to verify functional operation, enabling the Check Engine Lite CEL if not fully operational, which you would see DTC with a scantool
- usual failure is some point between fully closed and fully open, allowing engine to start and run, but not very well - f'rinstance, some power but black smoke

So, if you're still with me, inspect the FCV - if the throttle plate is not fully open, remove the plate
- if the plate is fully open, but you can move it partially closed, remove it - intake volume can also close it = black smoke
- stuck-open EGR would cause black smoke, but you got a new one - it's normally closed, applied vacuum opens it as necessary
- defective MAP sensor would cause black smoke, but you got a new one
- defective turbo would cause black smoke, but you got a new one
- next step is stuck FCV plate -check it out
- if black smoke after FCV plate removal, next step would be sticking BOOST Control Valve solenoid allowing increasing exhaust gas energy to blow-open turbo vanes to some-to-full waste position = black smoke
- FCV is free, solenoid will cost you, so freebies first
- won't hurt a thing (long as you remove both plate-screw fasteners from the intake duct, eh)

p.s. Factor the number of times your KJ will be out in the oil patch vs normal street-use far from the patch to help allay your recently-acquired YOUTUBE-inspired stress
I'm out in the edge of an oil patch with several Diesel-fueled vehicles, and so far no problem - I'm more worried the H2S will get me, first....................

gmctd · **Posted:** Sat Dec 27, 2014 2:53 am

Sabertooth wrote:

Gmctd you live in Tx could you pm so I could ask questions?

Yep - I'm in Houston - use the forum pm system in USER CONTROL PANEL, or click on NEW MESSAGES and I will respond further therein

taroo · **Joined:** Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:14 pm **Posts:** 292

Sabertooth wrote:

Ok I just YouTube runaway diesel and it scared the bejesus out of me. Is it possible that could happen with the FCV out?

Sabertooth....removing the plate is the same as installing Weeks Kit essentially (but not as good). I have zero, zero standing between the turbo out and the intake except the CAC hoses and intercooler. That said, not sure if that is your problem. ensure your sensors are clean, your air filter is clean, does sound like you are starving for air maybe. Assume your intake elbow is not choked off with yuck from EGR over time. I have been running Synthetic EGR (SEGR) since about 20K miles and if you dont have GDE or SEGR then you are full on sucking up yuck...IMHO.

taroo · **Joined:** Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:14 pm **Posts:** 292

Sabertooth wrote:

Ok I just YouTube runaway diesel and it scared the bejesus out of me. Is it possible that could happen with the FCV out?

Look at page 9-169 of FSM. You can download the FSM from this board.

Sabertooth · **Joined:** Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:22 pm **Posts:** 17

What is a FSM? In the army it stand for field service manual. Is it the same? Where on the board is it?

Right now the jeep is at a shop got some squeaking going on with the pulley system got to have one changed out before I continue. Where can one buy the plate to block off the egr so I can remove all that crap. GDE has the program to fool the computer and cancel the CEL right?

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Wed Dec 31, 2014 11:07 am

Sabertooth wrote:

What is a FSM? In the army it stand for field service manual. Is it the same? Where on the board is it?

Right now the jeep is at a shop got some squeaking going on with the pulley system got to have one changed out before I continue. Where can one buy the plate to block off the egr so I can remove all that crap. GDE has the program to fool the computer and cancel the CEL right?

"FSM" stands for "Factory Service Manual"!
Download FSM here:
http://colorado4wheel.com/manuals/Jeep/KJ/CRD_Diagrams/

Blank off the EGR line and remove the throttle plate (2 screws) out of the FCV (flow control valve), then unplug the MAF sensor, this will totally disable the whole EGR system. It will trip a DTC code, but will not affect the running of the engine, only help it and it will eliminate any problems you may have with the EGR or FCV parts.

EGR Block-off plate and the dimensions:

FYI: A bock off plate come with the Weeks Elbow Kit!

I did this very thing on mine early on before I re-flashed the OBC. :wink:

Custom tunes are available on this forum for those who like to do their own mods and do not like spending mega bucks for something that is available for free $0; :-)r

A Squeeto re-flash tune will eliminate any DTC after doing any of this and provide you with more power and better fuel mileage...

Read all about it here:
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=98&t=78418&hilit=flash+flash[/quote]

gmctd · **Posted:** Wed Dec 31, 2014 12:22 pm

Sabertooth, you reside in Texas - our hiways and biways are beautiful and useful because of Federal infra-structure moneys Texas receives by complying with Federally-mandated EPA-compliant vehicle inspections

Do any of the idiotic stuff that defeats\removes Federally-mandated emissions components and you may as well paint your KJ green and park it out back in the weeds
- your KJ will not pass yearly inspection
- you cannot purchase new yearly vehicle registration tags
- you cannot legally drive on any public roadway
- you will be ticketed for removal of any\all emissions components
- you will be required to furnish documented repair workorders as proof of installation and function (which requires testing and certification at EPA-licensed emissions testing center) of all missing emissions components or they will not accept your KJ for another inspection
- repeat one thru three, as above

With that being stated, it is, of course, your choice, eh...(not really).................

Sabertooth · **Joined:** Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:22 pm **Posts:** 17

Heck it would not pass inspection now with all new emissions stuff already on it because it keeps tripping the CEL and none of the so called dodge diesel mechanics can figure out why! Plus the black smoke it's blowing. So what's a person to do??

gmctd · **Posted:** Thu Jan 01, 2015 12:42 am

Sabertooth wrote:

Heck it would not pass inspection now with all new emissions stuff already on it because it keeps tripping the CEL and none of the so called dodge diesel mechanics can figure out why! Plus the black smoke it's blowing. So what's a person to do??

If you have not, read thru this:
viewtopic.php?p=853249#p853249
What DTC(s) is triggering the CEL?

Sabertooth · **Joined:** Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:22 pm **Posts:** 17

DCT says the map and egr are bad so I had them replaced with new ones. Still says there bad.

Sabertooth · **Joined:** Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:22 pm **Posts:** 17

The egr and map. I had them replaced at at the dealer and they still trip the cel. Mechanics can not figure out why.

Sabertooth · **Joined:** Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:22 pm **Posts:** 17

Sorry for the double post.

gmctd · **Posted:** Thu Jan 01, 2015 1:47 am

No prob - do you know the specific DTC numbers - if there are more than two, post them all

FYI: troubleshooting is nothing more than logically step-by-step eliminating all the things that don't cause the problem - what is left is the causative device

Problem is, long-distance troubleshooting relys on accurate and complete information -any two people witnessing the same accident will usually give conflicting mis-information, so hear-say input can be very unreliable

You've indicated what has been replaced, and I am aware of what could actually cause the need for replacement - it will be most helpful to see the DTC(s) that caused the mechs to think those items needed replacing

I can suggest more items that could be defective, but the more items I suggest as possibly causative, the more you're gonna feel overwhelmed, so let's take it one logical step at a time

DTC's first, then the FCV plate - engine off, should be exactly horizontal across the tube - engine running should be exactly horizontal across the tube

help new crd owner

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