CRD drawbacks: Under Engineering and Planned Obsolescence

papaindigo · **Posted:** Tue May 05, 2015 1:52 pm

At the risk of getting my head handed to me in the endless oil debate keeping in mind I do not use Mobil 1 in any form rather I use Shell Rotella T-6.

Could someone please point me to independent documentation that Mobil 1 Full Synthetic 0W-40 or 10W-40 are not suitable for use in the CRD? I've see lots of posts that say they are not. However, both oils continue to meet the CRD Owner's Manual specs - both Mopar and API - at least per the Mobil site which also lists that they are approved for a host of turbocharged engines.

In fact the Owner's Manual for the $149,990 600-hp twin-turbocharged 2016 Nissan GT-R NISMO specifically says "Mobil 1 (0W-40) (100% synthetic) is the factory fill oil. The VR38 engine with its plasma-sprayed bores was developed using this oil. NISSAN cannot ensure proper engine operation and durability if other 0W-40 synthetic oil is used. If Mobil 1 (0W-40) is not available, Mobil 1 (10W-40) (100% synthetic) may be used; however, some performance loss may be noticed." Yes I know this is a gas engine and so are the 2015 Corvette series engines for which Mobil 1 is also recommended by GM.

I'm not asking if Mobil 1 is be "best" choice rather I'm curious what's the backup to the underlying chatter that it's a bad choice.

For whatever it's worth according to API's oil ratings any oil rated CI-4 or better CJ-4 should be fine and maybe ones rated CH-4.

PS for Flash7210 - nope both 05 and 06 Owners Manual reference only CF (SM/CF) or better and the requirements of DaimlerChrysler Material Standard MS-10725. Why they reference API CF rating escapes me as that rating was long out of date in 2005.

thermorex · **Posted:** Tue May 05, 2015 2:58 pm

I think the only "documentation" is that is not truly certified by api for diesel. It's only what Exxon Mobil says it is versus a true certification. Plus, a lot of forum like drama is involved. That is not to say 0w40 is the best oil for diesel either, but it's better in maintaining viscosity vs Mobil 1 5w40 tdt, better pour point temps, better flash point and better shear point. Pretty much is a better tdt oil, less more diesel additives that tdt has. So just because it does not say on the bottle "for Diesel engines" for the average Joe to read, it doesn't mean it's not good. It's also a marketing strategy so the spark infested vehicle average Joes owners will not say "oh... That's a diesel oil... Duh..." . I still support the idea that Mobil 1 0w-40 it's an excellent alternative for a non egr Diesel engine.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Tue May 05, 2015 3:56 pm

This is just going from memory, so check your owners manual to be sure...

I believe Chrysler specified MB-229.3 and/or MB-229.5 oils.
So, go to this website:
http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolistenmain.php?content_action=showselect&navigation_path=bevolisten&language_id=1&blatt=229.3&suchbegriff=
And find your favorite oil on the list. :roll:

(for all the Amsoil fans out there, notice that Amsoil is not on the list)

I've used Rotella 5w-40, Delo 5w-40, and Mobil 1 TDT 5w-40 for my oil changes.
When I pulled my head off at 160,000 miles the rocker arms were still in great shape.

gmctd · **Posted:** Tue May 05, 2015 5:57 pm

The American Petroleum Institute C(X) ratings specify temperature and pressure limits that each rated oil can function and will survive within

- and, remember, just because the API specifications do not indicate suitability for deep-frying chicken, fish, or yer fav turkey at thanksgiving, you will be disappointed if you exceed the listed specifications when you start the fry

'Nuther words, don't use a non-turboDiesel rated oil in your CRD\KJ or other turboDiesel-powered chassis

Mountainman · **Posted:** Tue May 05, 2015 6:58 pm

Alright, thanks for all of the advice on oils. I guess I'll stick with the cheap T6 and since it's so much less, I'll change the oil a little more often.

geordi · **Posted:** Tue May 05, 2015 8:38 pm

This is what happens on every forum when the question of oil rears its head.

Ask 5 people, get 12 different answers.

gmctd · **Posted:** Tue May 05, 2015 10:00 pm

Yep - imagine how confusing that must be to new-to-Diesel owners

I think the problem boils down to the eastern Europe requirement for 0w-40 oils, where the temps are deep below zero for many months of the year - Cummins specs only 10-W40 as the minimum, with CF as the minimum API for the mechanically-injected engines, thru CI-4 for the CRD's

All the ratings were upscaled with the advent of Common Rail Diesel technology, thru CG-4, CH-4, and CI-4

I have used ROTELLA T 10w-40 since back in the '90s, and don't worry about the deep cold 0w requirement

Basically, if the oil isn't specifically spec'ed for turboDiesel service, don't assume, just don't use it

gmctd · **Posted:** Wed May 06, 2015 7:41 am

gmctd wrote:

Yep - imagine how confusing that must be to new-to-Diesel owners

I think the problem boils down to the eastern Europe requirement for 0w-40 oils, where the temps are deep below zero for many months of the year - Cummins specs only 10-W40 as the minimum, with CF as the minimum API for the mechanically-injected engines, thru CI-4 for the CRD's

All the ratings were upscaled with the advent of Common Rail Diesel technology, thru CG-4, CH-4, and CI-4

I have used ROTELLA T 10w-40 since back in the '90s, and don't worry about the deep cold 0w requirement

Basically, if the oil isn't specifically spec'ed for turboDiesel service, don't assume, just don't use it

Well, nobody asked, so BTT:
The reason for the 0W-40 spec is simply comprehensive:
- the VM2.8L CRD is nearly 3 liters, very large displacement for a passenger-type automotive chassis
- other passenger-type Diesels fall in the 1.8L to 2.2L range
- passenger vehicles have room for only one battery
- larger displacement Diesel engines require two (count'em: 2) batteries for reliable cold-weather starting
- the CRD KJ has room for only one battery, and not a very large one, at that
- a. the new Li-Ion types should be a welcome addition, once prices fall to acceptable levels
- b. the small package should allow for considerable increase in capacity while still fitting within oem real estate limitations
- so, the 0w rating is to allow reliable deep-cold weather starts with only one battery
- the synthetic-only spec serves the same function: ease of starting

So, if you cannot find a turboDiesel-rated 0w-40 for deep winter conditions, at least use the synthetics, no Dino oils
Be sure to switch back to a turboDiesel-rated 10w-40 synthetic oil during the hot months in your locale

Infinite_Karma · **Posted:** Wed May 11, 2016 5:46 pm

gmctd wrote:

geordi is mostly correct - BUT
- even he missed the obvious: as PLAINLY stated, MOBIL ONE is not suitable for CRD TurboDiesel service
- MOBIL ONE TDT (and other TD compatible oils) was not EVEN mentioned, as far as I can re-read my post

- MOBIL 1 is not rated for the temperatures produced in a TURBOCHARGED Diesel engine, nor even a turbocharged spark-infested engine.
This is why OEM's upgraded the requirements for turbocharged gasoline-fueled engines to turboDiesel specs
- doesn't matter whether you have EGR or not
- it's the higher temperatures on the under-side of the oil-spray cooled turboDiesel pistons\crowns
- a. oil-spray cooling is used even in normally-aspirated Diesel engines
- b. oil-spray cooling is seldom used in oem spark-infested engines
- c. purpose-built hi-perf gasoline-fueled racing engines and turbocharged engines require oil-spray cooling, with upgraded C(X) rated oils
- it's the extreme exhaust temperatures generated in the turbocharger turbine which are direct-coupled into the cartridge center-section which is lubed by engine oil that quickly deteriorates oil lubricating quality
- heat-deteriorated oil is not suitable for the higher pressures generated by high compression ratios and high low-rpm torque into the rod and crank bearings
- heat-deteriorated oil is not suitable for the purpose-built interference-function designed into the stamped-steel rocker arm\pivot fulcrum area

So, always check the C(X) specifications of the oil you intend to use in the VM2.8L CRD TurboDiesel engine - or the RAM CUMMINS, or the FxxD 6.0, or the GM DMaxx turboDiesel engines
- your selection must be rated for TURBODIESEL service
- if you don't see the rating, don't buy or use that oil
- cheap will get you by UNTIL YOU NEED NEW ROCKER ARMS AND LIFTERS - then compare the savings, eh.........

MOBIL ONE (1) IS NOT COMPATIBLE WITH TURBODIESEL ENGINES, CRD OR EARLIER VERSIONS

MOBIL ONE (1) TDT is the upgrade for turboDiesel service

NOTE:
- EGR merely caused the gummy mess in the intake, mainly resulted from cooking the oil-saturated crankcase effluent (blow-by) sucked into the turbo compressor
- even if you eliminate EGR, you will still need PROVENT\equiv to remove the excessive oil-saturation from the normal blow-by gasses
- this saturation is resulted from the high temperatures of the pistons and the extreme temperatures of the return-oil from the turbocharger center cardridge which is cooked-off into vaporization

What about this for our KJ CRDs? ... : "Mobil 1 120760 Synthetic Motor Oil 0W-40"?

http://www.amazon.com/Mobil-120760-Synthetic-Motor-0W-40/dp/B00HG76A9A?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=od_aui_detailpages01

flash7210 · **Posted:** Wed May 11, 2016 6:30 pm

IMO, Mobil 1 5w-40 turbo diesel truck is better.
So is Rotella T6 5w-40.
And Delo 400LE synthetic 5w-40.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Wed May 11, 2016 9:37 pm

Another very fine diesel motor oil that was not mentioned and is available in most locations is: Royal Purple 15W-40 Full Synthetic Motor Oil. It is designed for turbo charged diesel engines and and meets or exceeds all API specifications!
It is a very high quality full synthetic motor oil if you want one of the best in a slightly higher weight to protect your engine operating in higher temperature environments..... I have ran it in both my Jeep VMI and Dodge Cummins diesel engines...wink:

mass-hole · **Posted:** Thu May 12, 2016 2:34 pm

I fail to understand why you would use a 10w or 15w oil in any situation. Since any oil, whether it's 0w, 5w, or 20w, is many time thicker when cold than when at operating temp, why would you not always use the lowest cold viscosity you can get away with(IE don't use a 0w over a true turbodiesel 5w oil).

And don't tell me it's cause it sticks to the components better, last I checked they were all 40 weight at operating temps and my engine doesn't instantly drop to ambient temp the second I shut it off.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

CRD drawbacks: Under Engineering and Planned Obsolescence

Who is online