faint quick pop and now dead miss, loss of power

dieselguy · **Posted:** Tue Jan 05, 2016 12:36 am

Coming home this am I started up from a stop sign and as I was gaining speed heard a sharp faint pop, jeep did a nose dive and at first I thought tranny was slipping, but quickly realized I had lost power drastically. Shut it off and coasted off the road, popped hood, checked turbo hoses and turbo, checked fuel injectors and lines, everything looked fine. Cranked her up, and had dead miss, was making all sorts of chattering noises, then I reved engine to 1000 rpm and massive cloud of white smoke so big it looked like the world was on fire. I was only a cpl miles from home so I pulled it to my shop. First I checked the oil and it looked thin and about a gallon over full. Next I pulled injectors and the rear injector had a nozzle issue. I'm going to try to post pics and get your input.

dieselguy · **Posted:** Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:02 am

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dieselguy · **Posted:** Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:04 am

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olypopper · **Posted:** Tue Jan 05, 2016 2:19 am

Pull the head......... :dead:

racertracer · **Posted:** Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:41 am

Broken ceramic glow plug broke loose?

dieselguy · **Posted:** Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:07 am

I'm trying to find a scope to look around inside the cylinder. After pulling all injectors, I spun it over and it was smooth, no funny noise. I should be able to plug in and see if I'm getting a code on that glow plug shouldn't I? Maybe ohm the plug to see if it's reading different?

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jws84_02 · **Posted:** Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:48 am

You don't need any tools to know that, that injector is no longer good. Question is what caused it? I agree with it possibly being a broken ceramic glow plug and fear what other damage it has done

Mountainman · **Posted:** Tue Jan 05, 2016 12:15 pm

Sounds like you might have gotten lucky, and a smashed injector saved the day. Hmm, I've noticed on two or three engines that there were dings on a piston where a glow plug tip did some damage. The piston survived on the ones I've seen, but who knows if the PO's had to put a new head on...

On the other hand, sounds like the head is smashed and there's a ton of coolant in the oil. It's milky looking?
You have the ceramic glow plugs in there?

geordi · **Posted:** Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:02 pm

The tip of that injector has obviously been impacted - I think you dropped a valve.

Nothing else to do - you have to pull the head.

BlackLibertyCRD · **Posted:** Tue Jan 05, 2016 7:46 pm

Dieselguy I think you are on the right track. You can get a 8mm flexible camera and look down the injector hole. Also pull the glow plug on that cylinder and see if the case was from it. You can also take compression before reinstalling injectors.

95Z28A4 · **Joined:** Sun Mar 30, 2014 9:53 am **Posts:** 297

Pull glow plug to inspect it for damage and scope the cylinder. If it turns freely perform a compression check. You may have to pull the head, but I would do more testing first.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Tue Jan 05, 2016 9:45 pm

I'm in agreement with geordi, looks like you had some serious metal to metal contact in that cylinder. Possibly a broke valve that punched the injector face. Ceramic would be hard pressed to damage metal of that hardness that the injector is made of!!!!
Pull the head; only true way to access the real damage....anything else is just conjecture...

rankom · **Posted:** Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:06 pm

im in with you guys, look like dropped valve , well i worked on 2 stroke 4 stroke diesels but like i said before this engine is so ,,, special,,, some guys agreed with me , i know i cannot blame engineers for special DOHV rocker design but i feel sorry for fisherman's in Mediterranean sae when this happens to them in middle of the sea , because they use this motor in marine application i hear , hope they can make it home on 3 cylinders.?

geordi · **Posted:** Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:25 am

Marine applications would have a spare engine (larger boats tend to have at least 2 engines to run stuff) so in theory they could continue on just one to limp home, or else there is always Sea Tow.

But I also suspect they have much less issues b/c they don't have to deal with EGR garbage or strange oil requirements or even the strange head design we have. They might even have a better head and valve cover design!

dieselguy · **Posted:** Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:43 pm

rankom wrote:

im in with you guys, look like dropped valve , well i worked on 2 stroke 4 stroke diesels but like i said before this engine is so ,,, special,,, some guys agreed with me , i know i cannot blame engineers for special DOHV rocker design but i feel sorry for fisherman's in Mediterranean sae when this happens to them in middle of the sea , because they use this motor in marine application i hear , hope they can make it home on 3 cylinders.?

This engine in the marine application is a single overhead cam driven by gear to gear timing just as all other cummins engine's. Why did I call it a cummins you ask? Because this engine comes here via freight containers as a short block, and cummins puts their own head and timing assembly on it and the valve cover has cummins stamped on it.

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dieselguy · **Posted:** Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:54 pm

I'm 100% sure I don't have a dropped valve or head issue, oil has no water in it, without injectors installed I have zero abnormal sounds. I am gonna pull glow plug, I have no idea which ones are in it, and you guys have to remember, these pictures are enlarged probably a thousand percent, this damage to the naked eye is just the very end of the tip of this injector. No doubt something did it, but if it was ceramic it's very possible when a piston is turning 3000rpm if that ceramic was directly under the injector to knock the tip off, remember, this tip isn't much bigger than the head of a needle. And I'm wondering when it collided if it possibly disintegrated, because when I spin the engine over there's nothing hitting. But it does concern me if this made it out the valve did it make it past the turbo.

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Mountainman · **Posted:** Wed Jan 06, 2016 3:05 pm

I was thinking that if you can bar it over smoothly, that chances are that it didn't drop a valve. But, there's still a descent chance it snap rocker in half if it was a glowplug tip that could have gotten caught inbetween the valve and piston. I had one the other day with a bad head gasket. It sounded perfect at idle, not so much as a check engine light, but it had a rocker snapped in half when I pulled the top. Quite the surprise. If you have more than 80k miles, and old rockers, I would just pull the top and make sure they are in good condition. Every one I've seen past 80k miles had sloppy needle bearings, or broken rockers. Buying one new one for comparison is really useful.

I mean, if you already have #3 glow plug pulled, you might as well pull the top. Otherwise you're wasting a good opportunity. Time to add the ARP's also.

Hopefully your signature doesn't say you've already replaced the rockers...

ok, you have 201k miles. Your rockers have already been replaced, or you probably have at least 2 or 3 that are wasted. The one I just cracked open with a GDE tune, and 242k miles, had two wasted rockers, and the rest were in ok shape.

olypopper · **Posted:** Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:39 pm

I suspect you will find my favorite dish when you pull the head......Carnage Esada!!

rankom · **Posted:** Wed Jan 06, 2016 7:08 pm

well you can do this test , bar engine over cyl 1 valve overlap and cyl #4 comp stroke (valves closed ) put shop air into injector hole ,use rubber tip blow air into cylinder , listen for air leak thru intake or exhaust side , no air leak is good sign

dieselguy · **Posted:** Wed Jan 06, 2016 11:04 pm

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faint quick pop and now dead miss, loss of power

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