wilco549: It is entirely your choice as to what you do with your CRD... we live in Western Democratic Societies after all. Good luck with your modified unit. I have always said that Mark Kapalczynski's modified thermostat assembly was very good given the limitations of the O.E. housing. It is a good design to work with if all you are doing is making a few of them, and you have your own machine shop equipment to spend time with. Logistics really come into play if you start making a lot of them.

I have the luxury of neither... I do not own machine shop equipment, nor was my intention to make only a few. Kapalczynski tried that and it was an exercise in frustration for him and his customers. That is the main reason I went with a clean sheet design.

However, you sure pick a strange vehicle to complain about parts prices. You say you have a problem with a $500.00 engine thermostat assembly, where the housing never has to be replaced again, (so you only pay for this ONCE), and has accessory ports for aftermarket temperature sending units. And yet you drive a CRD, where fuel injectors go for over $1000.00 EACH, and rear brake backing plates are dealer only assemblies that are around $400.00 USD PER SIDE. WTF?!?

The first time I look back at LOST in ages and this is what I find. What a mess. While it is nice to see people like racer still fighting the battle, it seems a lost cause - pun intended. My 2 cents - vendors have no place in solution discussions, and it doesn't matter that they are not big players. Vendors, large or small, pollute discussions and seek to direct it towards their product. Still even if you could identify them as vendors and restrict them to 'sales' sub-forums, they will just create phantom user ids to use to recommend their products - this happens all over the forum world.
At least if you know about them you can shout them down and alert people, but they always have their proxies working for them.
Good luck Racer, I'm off to hibernation again.

So if I am to understand you correctly, I should have NEVER listened to people ON THESE FORUMS who - pleaded and begged - me to create a permanent solution to the CRD engine cooling system problem.

1) I took the time and trouble to do the proper research and consulting with the engineers who know this subject cold.

2) I spent the money on development.

3) I spent the money and time on manufacturing the Model 001.

Nobody else was willing to do this, but I became an expert on this because a solution was needed for long term reliability of the CRD.

Now those same individuals who sat on their collective asses and DID NOTHING get all upset at the high cost of a low-volume short production run product, and then claim I am hijacking the conversation on CRD cooling system issues... even though this is what they wanted me to do.

I became an expert on this not simply to make a great product, but to inform CRD owners why the other options are risky. Discussing the pros and cons of all options was part of the research and development that I had to do to come up with a winning design. I found out what was risky and what was not in my extensive investigation into the entire matter.

And yes, I do take offense at some clown insisting that the inline thermostat is a viable option... he has not taken the time and done the research... I have.

So, Glend, your entire assertion that I am "polluting" the discussion is out of line and pure B.S. It is those dispensing risky options for repair that are the real problem here, and others who get their nose out of joint when the facts are spelled out for them.

racertracer, for your assertion that I am money driven to be true, you would have to know my actual costs of production. Your statement, therefore, has no basis in fact. I welcome you to contact the machine shop that manufactures all of the aluminum parts for the Model 001. These costs make up 80% of the entire cost of producing the Model 001. You can PM me for the contact number.

I hope this serves as a warning to those individuals who want to help others through web forums.

It looks like TDF made a good product, if we did not have such a warm winter I would have probably bought a couple myself. He is posting in threads where people need help with cooling or overheating problems. Seems appropriate to me, he is here to help like the rest of us.

Still much better than claims about some miracle flush in a can that made my CRD run better, smoother, and quieter then it ever has since it was new and tuned.

_________________
2006 LTD Bright Silver loaded with all the needed mods, CCV intact.
Proudly supporting CRD vendors, and their development of quality parts and accessories.
Equipped with HDS thermostat, plenty of heat, faster warm-ups, increased fuel mileage.

That looks like something built in a basement and it still has all the weakness of the OE housing. You get what you pay for.

_________________
2006 LTD Bright Silver loaded with all the needed mods, CCV intact.
Proudly supporting CRD vendors, and their development of quality parts and accessories.
Equipped with HDS thermostat, plenty of heat, faster warm-ups, increased fuel mileage.

With the poor match of an aluminum head on an iron block, and the high cost of replacement, I personally think the HDS 001 is cheap insurance. I want a high quality bullet proof engineered product that will cool the head as evenly as possible. The HDS 001 can flow more coolant than any homemade version, and that means a lot to me when I'm towing, or driving over long mountain grades. If you've replaced a head or three on these things you quickly figure out that you don't want to even tempt the head to crack, or head gasket to blow, as it's a colossal pain in the butt to fix. You might even injure your back in the process, or destroy your radiator...

_________________
05 CRD: H.D.S2 stat,WW Ironrock trilink&LCA's, OX rear,ARB front, 4.10's, ARB bumper, Suncoast,OME 3.5, JBA UCA,rock rails, Moabs&265/75 Duratracs, GDE tunes ,FFD fan,ARP's, 2 micron fuel, new valves,sasquatch battery tray & grid heater, tensioner relocated
Mech fan, VH & AC delete

It is good to hear of that quality of a wider opening tstat, because most of the ideas that went through this forum, were probably not allowing the coolant into the rad as fast as the OE one is capable of by squeezing a GM or Fiat gasser tstat into a turbo diesel engine, only because it fit the space, but not the application. It sounds like HDS is even more capable of this? Every one was concentrating on more heat, no one was concentrating on what kind of trouble low flow of that extra heat could do to the aluminum head. If I were towing, I would buy 2 of the HDS tstats tomorrow, but they will definitely replace the OE ones by next winter either way.

_________________
2006 LTD Bright Silver loaded with all the needed mods, CCV intact.
Proudly supporting CRD vendors, and their development of quality parts and accessories.
Equipped with HDS thermostat, plenty of heat, faster warm-ups, increased fuel mileage.

well guys i think we all have a thermostat . so yes it is important to have one and in working order . at the end engineers did design it

and for many of us over the last 5 years or so - the Stant #13519 has worked well

$7.55 from Rockauto ~ $3 shipping.

_________________
2005 CRD
stuff
Skeptic quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur

My CRD worked well with the stant for over 50K miles. The only reason I changed was I did a timing belt change and went back to the OEM thermostat because I had one in the box. It is working fine for now. I am waiting for Sarge to finish his re-design of the OEM thermostat.

joelukex4 & ATXKJ:

Consider yourselves lucky; both Choochooman74 and xhizzous have head gasket issues when running the inline thermostat valve.

And joelukex4, if you think the inline thermostat is such a good idea, then why are you waiting to install the SargeIndustries modified unit? If a thermostat valve in the upper radiator hose was good for 50,000 miles, why spring for any money at all on any aftermarket/modified products? And how could you "go back" to an O.E. thermostat when you need and O.E. thermostat to use the inline thermostat valve?

If you can prove a connection between the two, please do so as everyone on this forum could benefit from that knowledge!!!! And possibly not make a mistake when considering what route to take on a replacement part...

_________________
Supporting Vendor and Moderator of LOST
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
Yeti StgIV Hot Tune
Week's BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NO CAT
V6Airbox/noVH
GM11 Bld.fan/HDClutch
IronrockArms/wwdieselMount
98 Dodge Cummins 24 Valve

I had an inline Tstat on my Jeep that did the same thing as well. Now I just have the crappy OE and no more cracked heads.

_________________
2006 LTD Bright Silver loaded with all the needed mods, CCV intact.
Proudly supporting CRD vendors, and their development of quality parts and accessories.
Equipped with HDS thermostat, plenty of heat, faster warm-ups, increased fuel mileage.

I went back to the OE thermostat when I did my timing belt change because I had a new one in the box which I bought years ago for $80. It works fine. Yes it runs a little cold at idle, This past weekend (-10F to -18F) it was at the first line to the left of center. When running on the expressway though it was only a hair to the left of center. This is the same position that the 193F stant ran. I do 95% of my running on the interstate at 70 -80mph and it always runs just a hair to the left of center.

I will look at the SargeIndustries T-stat when it is finished because I am always looking for a new mouse trap. If the price is reasonable and it works better than the stant I may spring for it. Right now I have the OEM thermostat that is working fine so I am in no hurry to change. I just know that your T-stat while an exceptional unit is not worth the 5 bills to me. I can use OEM units or in combination with a stant unit and probably outlast the life of the vehicle and never spend $500.

joelukex4:

1) Your O.E. engine temperature gauge is not to be trusted as it is not linear in it's measurements of engine temperature. This is not me trying foist B.S. at you, but from Mark Kapalcynski himself. Look at the following link and scroll down to the March 12, 2010 posting by Mark showing two significant things...

viewtopic.php?f=169&t=50940

A) ... the statement that the opening temperature for the O.E. thermostat is 80 degrees Celsius, or 176 degrees Fahrenheit. This is confirmed by the 2005 - 2006 Liberty CRD Factory Service Manual. This has been confirmed by Kieth at Green Diesel Engineering to be too cold a thermostat opening temperature for optimum operation of the CRD engine. You can ask any diesel engine technician and they will also confirm this, especially for a modern diesel engine that has pollution control systems on them.

B) ... the photograph showing each line of the engine temperature gauge and the corresponding measured engine temperature. They simply are not linear, and therefore the engine gauge can not be trusted to give you an accurate measurement of engine temperature. Furthermore, if your gauge is indeed pointing to the first to the left of center, then according to this photograph you are running at 176 degrees Fahrenheit and therefore running too cold.

The point I am making here is than even with a NEW O.E. thermostat assembly you are running your CRD engine too cold. This causes long-term reliability issues, as well as robbing you of optimum power output and fuel economy.

Your continual support of the inline thermostat option just makes me shake my head in disbelief... you need to go do some independent research and find out exactly what tends to happen in engines when the bypass circuit of the cooling system is shut off, as what happens with the use of an inline thermostat in conjunction with a failed O.E. thermostat. Do you also use non-spec fluids in your CRD as well? Perhaps you want to install a pre-lube pump for your engine, but in order to do so you cut off a lubrication circuit... is this also O.K. with you?

Kieth recognizes the CRD cooling system issues for what it is, and purchased a properly engineered and manufactured upgrade part to cure the problem... the Model 001.

This is a spurious argument/comment that you are making here. Coolant bypass systems are in every internal combustion engine you can name, and they all are essential to the long term reliability of them. We are dealing with a turbo-diesel engine that has an aluminum cylinder head on an iron block... this is probably the absolute worst case scenario for engine architecture in regards to cylinder head gasket integrity.

The CRD engine is a boosted engine with the a cylinder head that has different thermal expansion properties than iron... meaning the aluminum expands when heated about twice as much than the iron does. This means the engineers designing the engine must be careful and diligent in designing the cylinder head, the head gasket, and the bolts that clamp the head to the block. They must also be very careful in designing a coolant system where heating the engine EVENLY is critical.

Blocking off the bypass system or otherwise modifying it is like playing with old dynamite; you may cause some serious damage by doing so. Yes, there a lots of people who will try this, and maybe even the majority will get away with it.. but given how expensive these things are to fix... why would you, unless you figure you have lots of money to burn and your time is not worth anything.

What I wrote to joelukex4 I will repeat to you, WWDiesel:

Your continual support of the inline thermostat option just makes me shake my head in disbelief... you need to go do some independent research and find out exactly what tends to happen in engines when the bypass circuit of the cooling system is shut off, as what happens with the use of an inline thermostat in conjunction with a failed O.E. thermostat. Do you also use non-spec fluids in your CRD as well? Perhaps you want to install a pre-lube pump for your engine, but in order to do so you cut off a lubrication circuit... is this also O.K. with you?

hmm, since cost is at the forefront of this discussion. I just thought I'd throw out there the notion of fuel savings. If you gain .5 mpg over 350,000 miles, you'd save $1,281 at an average price of $3. That's probably the difference of 193 to 201 degrees roughly, and less soot production to help the engine last that long.
Now, take the stock thermostat temp, and you'll likely be getting at least 2 mpg's more, and that exceeds $5,000 in the same 350,000 miles. Plus you can add in about another $1,000 worth of stock thermostats...

That's just the fuel savings and thermostats, not to mention the rockers and everything else lasting longer. $500 is a bargain. Do some reading on Ecomodder about hotter thermostats, and you'll find that all of these arguments about Jeff's thermostat being expensive are garbage. His thermostat will actually save you money. Do some research, get a scan gauge that will show you the fuel savings (calculating it at the pump won't show you .5 mpg gains unless you are very scientific about it), and please quit only thinking about the direct cost of a part, and not it's affect on fuel mileage and other costs. I'm just trying to save you money, and parts, labor etc, I don't get anything for supporting Jeff's thermostat, although I know enough to greatly appreciate his efforts

_________________
05 CRD: H.D.S2 stat,WW Ironrock trilink&LCA's, OX rear,ARB front, 4.10's, ARB bumper, Suncoast,OME 3.5, JBA UCA,rock rails, Moabs&265/75 Duratracs, GDE tunes ,FFD fan,ARP's, 2 micron fuel, new valves,sasquatch battery tray & grid heater, tensioner relocated
Mech fan, VH & AC delete

Whoa, My intent was not to question anyone's judgement, only to gain some clarity for all on your statement that in-line thermostats can cause blown head gaskets...inquiring minds want to know and I thought maybe you already had some pertinent information on the subject?
I do not have nor have I ever used an inline thermostat and I have never purported the use of one, not sure where you got that from?
I actually thought it was a good forum discussion on the subject, sorry I asked....

_________________
Supporting Vendor and Moderator of LOST
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
Yeti StgIV Hot Tune
Week's BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NO CAT
V6Airbox/noVH
GM11 Bld.fan/HDClutch
IronrockArms/wwdieselMount
98 Dodge Cummins 24 Valve

Please accept my apologies... I have been dealing with members here who clearly are willfully blind, and you got caught in the crossfire... sorry WWDiesel.

I misread your "rolling eyes" emoticon.

This is a complex subject, and I am getting tired have to explain things over and over again. I am a fellow CRD enthusiast - the family owns two of them - and I got into making the Model 001 because nobody else was doing it at the time. I felt that somebody had to, given my knowledge on the subject. I did not get into this to take advantage of other CRD owners and make bags of money, as much as some would have you believe.

So I took the project on, but I was only going to do this if I could manufacture a very high quality solution to the problem that will give CRD owners PEACE OF MIND. Unfortunately, this is expensive to do, given the parameters I must work within. Some people do not respect this or the serious nature of improper temperature control of an internal combustion engine, especially a turbo-diesel engine with an aluminum cylinder head on an iron block.

Aside from the GDE tunes, a Model 001 is the best thing you can do for your CRD engine. I firmly believe proper temperature control in this engine is THAT serious a subject. Others on this forum treat it like an afterthought.

I'm rather new to this forum and owning a Jeep Liberty CRD. I bought mine used from a member on here about a month ago. Mine actually came with the HDS Model 001 thermostat and it was one of the things I was glad it had and among all the other things the previous owner had done. It really made my choice easier to buy my Jeep since all the big trouble spots had been addressed.

I've learned a lot from this forum in a very short time and while many of you may see these same posts over and over again, I saw it as hey there are some members here that really know this engine and some of them are even going as far to make parts that fix design issues this vehicle would always be plagued with.

New members will continually come to this forum and unless you read this forum extensively or have experience with actually replacing the thermostat housing, you may not even realize it's a really bad design to begin with or that the CRD runs too cold for what it should.

I'm glad members like TDF exist and others that were willing to take the time to attack a problem that so many others were complaining about and come up with a solution for it.

_________________
2005 Liberty for sale - viewtopic.php?f=35&t=86570
05 Liberty CRD - GDE Eco/Hot Tune, ARP studs, Weeks EGR/FCV delete, Flowmaster DBX muffler, HDS Thermostat
00 VW Beetle TDI - Stock
11 Mini Cooper - Wife's
Motorcycles:: KTM 650 ADV (Katuki), 05 BMW 1200GS, 08 Yamaha WR250R