I wish I were a moderator so I could lock and/or delete this thread.

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Silver 2006 KJ 2.8L CRD Limited:
GDE ECO Tune / Fumoto Valve / E-Tecno GX3123 7v Glow Plugs / 2nd Gen Fuel Head / Mishimoto RED Hoses / Rockers/Lifters @ 114k / Hayden FC + 11 Blade Nylon / Sears P1 Battery / Transgo 45RFE-HD2 Reprogramming Kit / Timken Front Bearings

Why, too much on topic?

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2006 LTD Bright Silver loaded with all the needed mods, CCV intact.
Proudly supporting CRD vendors, and their development of quality parts and accessories.
Equipped with HDS thermostat, plenty of heat, faster warm-ups, increased fuel mileage.

So, dirtmover, am I to understand the you will not address the concerns I have set forth in writing on this thread regarding the SargeIndustries modified O.E. thermostat housing?

Here are my opinions on the matter:

1) ... it is an unproven modification, while the Kapalczynski mod is already in quite a few CRDs.
Kap's design was also unproven. Only after it was assembled, installed, and tested did it become proven.

2) ... claims that the rings in the SargeIndustries modified unit are easy to design gives the impression the parts that need to be machined for Kap's design are by comparison hard to do. B.S!! They both can easily be done on a lathe. The only difficult part of Kap's design is milling the O.E. housing flat.
This is true. They can both be done on a lathe. Nothing is that difficult when you have the tools and experience using those tools.

3) ... dirtmover's claims that the welding is trivial...
In my experience, welding aluminum is never trivial. Especially if you want it to hold liquids or gasses.

4) ... the cavity in the O.E. housing was made to work properly with the O.E. thermostat valve that normally sits in it... the size of that cavity is matched with the size of the bypass valve of the O.E. thermostat valve. Using a Hemi thermostat valve in this cavity may not allow for proper coolant flow.
Not really sure what to say about this, but you really dont know until you try.

5) ... dirtmover's claims in the following thread that he can drill and tap an accessory 1/8" NPT hole on the O.E. thermostat housing...
I agree that this probably wont work and drilling into it might cause the housing to crack. But then again, you really dont know until you try.
If it were me, I would add a temperature sensor into one of the two ports on the drivers side (i.e. EGR cooler port) of the head.

I look forward to seeing how well Sarge's T-stat housing performs.

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U.S. Army Retired

You see, dirtmover, it is not so hard to come up with good responses... this posting I can understand and respect... not your drive-by smear campaign.

flash7210:

Thank you, by the way. Here are my responses to your responses.

1) ... it is an unproven modification, while the Kapalczynski mod is already in quite a few CRDs.
Kap's design was also unproven. Only after it was assembled, installed, and tested did it become proven.
The point I am making here is that right now, for the purposes of helping whiteninja1 and his particular problem, the Kapalczynski mod is the way to go.

4) ... the cavity in the O.E. housing was made to work properly with the O.E. thermostat valve that normally sits in it... the size of that cavity is matched with the size of the bypass valve of the O.E. thermostat valve. Using a Hemi thermostat valve in this cavity may not allow for proper coolant flow.
Not really sure what to say about this, but you really dont know until you try.
The O.E. thermostat housing was designed with a particular sized thermostat valve that also has a bypass valve. Essentially, what I am trying to say here is that the engineers who designed the O.E. thermostat used very expensive testing equipment and/or mathematical formulas to determine the proper size housing for the thermostat valve they chose to use. While SargeIndustries has created an adaption to fit the upper part of the Hemi thermostat, he is simply sticking the lower, (bypass), part of the valve into the bypass cavity meant for a smaller valve. The problem with this arrangement is that you will probably NOT know of there is a problem. Similarly, the problems that are with the inline thermostat arrangement almost NEVER became apparent to the driver while he/she is driving, but some of the LOST CRD members who have used the inline thermostat still ended up with head gasket issues.

5) ... dirtmover's claims in the following thread that he can drill and tap an accessory 1/8" NPT hole on the O.E. thermostat housing...
I agree that this probably wont work and drilling into it might cause the housing to crack. But then again, you really dont know until you try.
If it were me, I would add a temperature sensor into one of the two ports on the drivers side (i.e. EGR cooler port) of the head.
The concern here is that they ARE successful in drilling and tapping a 1/8" NPT hole. If it collapses while manufacturing the Sarge modified thermostat that is nobody's loss but the creator. My concern lies with this being sold as a properly made accessory port... it is not. There simply is not enough "meat" around that hole to properly support a 1/8" NPT fitting without breaking apart. There are engineering minimums required for this sort of thing, and dirtmover is simply ignoring them. flask7210: The whole point of creating accessory ports in these thermostat assemblies is to alleviate the CRD owner from having to install one somewhere else.... it is a royal pain to do so, and my idea of adding two of them to the Model 001 is to alleviate the owner of this burden of he or she wants to convert to an electric cooling fan, or to install a proper engine temperature gauge.

I am all for experimentation; hey, it is your vehicle to play with (things like brakes may be the exception).

That said. Maybe you could try a Kap/Sarge hybrid if the Sephia cap can't be found.

Use Sarge top:




Do the lower as Kap.

No welding that way. Change the plastic fittings to brass.

I've been known to fabricate some stuff under the hood. But, there is a tremendous amount of vibration under the hood, and the stock thermostat started out as only slightly better than pot-metal. I don't think it's worth the chance of seeing the temp gauge spike, and shutting it down, only to find that a massive coolant leak from the thermostat breaking already caused a warped, or cracked head.

I know Kaps stats are out there running right now, but give them another 100k miles of vibration... Who's to say that the stock unmodified stat would even hold up to 3 or 400k miles of vibration? They have to be replaced like every 50k! I'm not risking my $5,000 engine to a cheap thermostat, regardless of the better cooling and mpg's of Jeff's stat.

I would put this effort into secondary fuel filtration, or something else that protects the BETTER, not worse, just to save a buck today, only to pay more later

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05 CRD: H.D.S2 stat,WW Ironrock trilink&LCA's, OX rear,ARB front, 4.10's, ARB bumper, Suncoast,OME 3.5, JBA UCA,rock rails, Moabs&265/75 Duratracs, GDE tunes ,FFD fan,ARP's, 2 micron fuel, new valves,sasquatch battery tray & grid heater, tensioner relocated
Mech fan, VH & AC delete

If you can use a lathe, the only tricky part is figuring out the distance that the lower insert sits below the seat of the thermostat (note: thermostat from 95-99 Hyundai Accent 1.5L).

If you use the dimensions of Kap's lower insert, you will need to machine the stat base to give a distance of 1.525 inch minus the thickness of your crushed gasket. Shown in the diagram is not correct.




Curtain area of bypass valve

Should be equal to the area of the bypass port (lower hose fitting).
-bypass port diameter (hose fitting) = .479 inch
-pi x (.479/2)^2 = .18 inch^2

-bypass insert inside diameter = .87 inch

-curtain area is = pi x diam x lift
-curtain area should be = pi x .87 x lift = .18
-thus lift (bypass valve gap) should be = .066 inch when the top valve is just cracked (190°F)

So

The gap at the bottom bypass valve is .07 inch just cracked past the end of the sleeve (the point where coolant really starts to flow to the radiator). Perfect height! But the thermostat sits on a gasket.

Again: machine the stat base to give a distance of 1.525 inch minus the thickness of your crushed gasket.

I like where Squeeto is taking this discussion, although I still believe the Model 001 to be much superior to these designs.

Mark Kapalczynski's modified O.E. thermostat has a better chance at long-term reliability, because nothing is welded together. His design is also functionally superior, because Kap sought out a thermostat valve that was either exactly or very close to being the same size as the O.E. valve.

The problem with Kap's design is accessing the Kia Sephia thermostat cap/water outlet that has been discontinued. If you can find one; great, you're set. If you can't, the way around this would be to either machine a matching cap, (get the angles correct, and you will not even require a different radiator hose), or weld one up like Sarge is doing, (honestly a weaker design; however, there is less welding that what Sarge is doing).

From the pictures that I posted, it looks like the top is just machined. I may be wrong though. Maybe Sarge can weigh-in.
That would make the hybrid design weld free.

I only posted the information for those who like to tinker. Your stat is the instant fix.

It is welded from the bottom, if I understand your question correctly.

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2006 Liberty CRD 275K, JBA 2.5 with Fox Shocks, GDE Turbo Kit, GDE TCM Tune, Suncoast TC, OEM fuel filter housing converted to fit Caterpillar Fuel Filter 1R-0749, OEM themostat housing modified to accept Hemi 203 F thermostat.

Is part 2 welded to part 4?

edit- closer look says welded. It originally looked to me like you just turned the elbow into the new top.

I can't comment on the weld-ability of the original part; just throwing out ideas.