06 CRD Turbo #2 HELP

diesel_guy86 · **Posted:** Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:49 am

I have an 86 xj with a factory turbo diesel, its nothing but problems too. Maybe jeep just needs to pick a good engine, a 3.0L Isuzu 4jj1 would be sweet.

geordi · **Posted:** Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:04 am

You probably will be OK, but to be honest... The risk is not the turbo, it is the oil passages on the bottom end. Those are *only* cooled and lubricated by the oil, and the oil is the ONLY THING keeping the bearing shells from contacting the crankshaft.

A 40 weight non-diesel rated oil may be OK for most things, but I don't know enough to say that it is ok for the heat and pressure of the bearings. This is where ALL the combustion pressure centers, after all.

Personally I would not trust it. A gallon of Rotella T6 or Mobil 1 TDT is about $30. A bottom end job is many thousands. You don't need to change the filter as that is just a filter, but I would drain and refill the oil with the correct stuff. Don't feel too bad, there is all potential that the dealership has been also using the wrong stuff all this time. Hopefully your light loaded driving hasn't bothered anything, but there really isn't any way to know without tearing it down.

I'm dealing with the bottom ends on two different engines right now: my CRD and my TDI are both down at the same time. This sucks, and I don't wish it on anyone.

thermorex · **Posted:** Wed Mar 23, 2016 7:59 am

diesel_guy86 wrote:

I have an 86 xj with a factory turbo diesel, its nothing but problems too. Maybe jeep just needs to pick a good engine, a 3.0L Isuzu 4jj1 would be sweet.

I had a 99 4.0 Cherokee and still have a Mercedes 300sd, I was planning to swap the 3.0 5cyl engine to the jeep, but sold it before. There are kits to do this, including motor mounts and flex plate. It works with aw4 or with ax15, but for aw4 you'll need a manual shift kit.

I heard that Renault 2.0 engines on the Cherokee is quite a pos.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Wed Mar 23, 2016 10:15 am

geordi wrote:

You probably will be OK, but to be honest... The risk is not the turbo, it is the oil passages on the bottom end. Those are *only* cooled and lubricated by the oil, and the oil is the ONLY THING keeping the bearing shells from contacting the crankshaft.

A 40 weight non-diesel rated oil may be OK for most things, but I don't know enough to say that it is ok for the heat and pressure of the bearings. This is where ALL the combustion pressure centers, after all.

Personally I would not trust it. A gallon of Rotella T6 or Mobil 1 TDT is about $30. A bottom end job is many thousands. You don't need to change the filter as that is just a filter, but I would drain and refill the oil with the correct stuff. Don't feel too bad, there is all potential that the dealership has been also using the wrong stuff all this time. Hopefully your light loaded driving hasn't bothered anything, but there really isn't any way to know without tearing it down.

I'm dealing with the bottom ends on two different engines right now: my CRD and my TDI are both down at the same time. This sucks, and I don't wish it on anyone.

Just curious geordi, what was the cause of the bottom end failures, can you share?

Diesel engine owners should never run any oil in a diesel engine that is not rated CJ-4 as it is simply not designed to handle the unique requirements imposed by burning diesel fuel! As we all know, diesel oil get discolored fairly quickly from the soot generated by burning diesel fuel and CJ-4 rated diesel oil is designed to handle the soot and ash along with several other issues. Engine oils certified for gasoline engines should NOT be used in diesel engines or you run the risk of component failure.

Text from API on CJ-4 certified oil:
For high-speed four-stroke cycle diesel engines designed to meet 2010 model year on-highway and Tier 4 nonroad
exhaust emission standards as well as for previous model year diesel engines. These oils are formulated for use in all
applications with diesel fuels ranging in sulfur content up to 500 ppm (0.05% by weight). However, the use of these oils
with greater than 15 ppm (0.0015% by weight) sulfur fuel may impact exhaust aftertreatment system durability and/or
drain interval. CJ-4 oils are especially effective at sustaining emission control system durability where particulate filters
and other advanced after treatment systems are used. Optimum protection is provided for control of catalyst poisoning,
particulate filter blocking, engine wear, piston deposits, low- and high-temperature stability, soot handling properties,
oxidative thickening, foaming, and viscosity loss due to shear. API CJ-4 oils exceed the performance criteria of API CI-4
with CI-4 PLUS, CI-4, CH-4, CG-4 and CF-4 and can effectively lubricate engines calling for those API Service Categories.
When using CJ-4 oil with higher than 15 ppm sulfur fuel, consult the engine manufacturer for service interval.

06NHLibertyCRD · **Joined:** Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:48 am **Posts:** 34

Ok thanks guys, it's only been driven 6 miles since the oils change and idled for maybe 25 minutes on and off.

I will go buy the proper oil this weekend and change it again.

:banghead:

geordi · **Posted:** Thu Mar 24, 2016 3:49 pm

This may be educational for someone else, so here is my reply to WWdiesel:

Well, that depends. There were 2 failures of the bottom end on Jeeps that I was driving: two engines in the same vehicle, as well as the CRD that I bought with a tapping sound that has turned out to definitely be missing bearings on the #4 rod (trashed the crank) and what I thought might be rod bearing issues on my TDI that has now turned out to not be.

The TDI is the easy one: I didn't check the oil often enough and missed that it was most likely consuming oil, and the first indication of an issue was when the idiot light came on at 70mph on the highway. Bad. The rod bearings were all in place however, and don't look terrible compared to the CRDs. Here's a picture of those TDI bearings:

The CRDs are a bit more complicated.

The one that I bought this way is completely missing the rod bearings on the #4, and the crank is chewed. I don't know what happened, but I suspect the wrong oil was used or insufficient oil flow, which would be worse as that means a design flaw that I cannot fix easily. I am still in the process of rebuilding that motor, it may actually be running again in a couple weeks if I can get the time to work on it.

The first failure was the easiest to diagnose: Too cold in the morning (20 degrees) and the CRD not plugged in, the turbo shaft seized about 2 miles from my driveway because the drive ended in a 50mph road and I didn't have any time or way to warm up the engine properly. Pumped all the oil into the exhaust because I didn't recognize what had happened (I thought I popped a boost hose again as that had been happening recent to this) and within 30 seconds the engine had no oil. The idiot light NEVER CAME ON. Replaced turbo, refilled with oil, but the damage was already done. I had heard a slight tapping that resolved itself... No it didn't. Ten miles later on the test drive, the #1 piston was beaten to shrapnel in seconds as the rod broke and inverted, punching out the oil pan.

Engine #2 was bought with about 60k miles on it (same for my chassis at the time) and 75k miles later, the #4 rod started rapping again - I tore the top down several times trying to figure out what had happened, and then it showed me by ejecting the #4 rod through the side of the block where the EGR had been. There was no rod cap on that rod, and the bolt hole was clear. The rod bolts backed out for reasons I do not fully understand.

This is why my signature says bad noises equal really bad things.

06NHLibertyCRD · **Joined:** Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:48 am **Posts:** 34

Thanks for the information. This is all good to know.

When you do my timing belt are you going to do a road test when you are done? I'm curious/scared to know if you find anything else wrong with our CRD.

geordi · **Posted:** Thu Mar 24, 2016 5:04 pm

We can, but with a timing belt job there is generally no need to. I start each one up before finishing the job to see how smooth they all run (EVERYONE says they sound smoother than they ever have before) and then it is closed up. I'm sure there will be some observations of things to watch for or things to address, but in general, I only really have opinions and experience with the engine mechanics. There are so many options for the "jeep stuff" versus the "CRD stuff" that the suspension and otherwise can all be spiced to personal taste.

06NHLibertyCRD · **Joined:** Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:48 am **Posts:** 34

Honestly that is all I am looking for. I can handle the normal every jeep stuff but it's this darn engine that I want to keep a close eye/ear on and make sure it's doing ok.

06NHLibertyCRD · **Joined:** Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:48 am **Posts:** 34

Just picked up 2 gallons of Rotella T6 5W-40 diesel oil for tomorrow's fun. Re doing the oil change and installing the ID inter cooler hoses and intake tube.

06NHLibertyCRD · **Joined:** Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:48 am **Posts:** 34

Did the Rotella T6 oil change and installed the inter cooler tubes and intake tube. Boy it sure is peppier now and barely rolls coal any more. Also found out that the whoomp whoomp whoomp noise is the rear u joints. I will do those tomorrow or Monday.

Can't wait to get the timing belt and water pump done so I can start planning a lift and tires/wheels for it.

geordi · **Posted:** Sun Mar 27, 2016 12:50 am

Nothing at all stopping you from planning wheels and tires... Those would be squarely under the "other Jeep stuff" and the motor is just the thing that that stuff carries around. :JEEPIN:

06NHLibertyCRD · **Joined:** Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:48 am **Posts:** 34

Haha, I hear that. I Just want to make sure that this engine is semi reliable before I spend money on "other Jeep stuff" and then i can have fun with it.

06 CRD Turbo #2 HELP

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