New project - Found 2 dropped valves.

geordi · **Posted:** Mon Jul 04, 2016 10:52 am

WWDiesel wrote:

Dgideon wrote:

I've been thinking about the "two (2) dropped exhaust valves" in the same cylinder.

Very likely the engine "dropped" the first exhaust valve into the cylinder and then this first "dropped" valve caused the fracture of the second exhaust valve. In other words, the first "dropped" valve caused the second "dropped" valve.

Good chance of a cracked head plus damage to the piston & cylinder liner and possibly a twisted connecting rod.

I totally agree, that is why one of the valve stems was not broken off cleanly as the first one but had a ragged broken stem... :roll:

No question - I fully believe that is exactly what happened too. The bottom of the head is destroyed, no need to worry about a crack. Luckily I don't think there is any issue with a bent rod however. The piston took all of the damage.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:33 am

geordi wrote:

WWDiesel wrote:

Dgideon wrote:

I've been thinking about the "two (2) dropped exhaust valves" in the same cylinder.

Very likely the engine "dropped" the first exhaust valve into the cylinder and then this first "dropped" valve caused the fracture of the second exhaust valve. In other words, the first "dropped" valve caused the second "dropped" valve.

Good chance of a cracked head plus damage to the piston & cylinder liner and possibly a twisted connecting rod.

I totally agree, that is why one of the valve stems was not broken off cleanly as the first one but had a ragged broken stem... :roll:

No question - I fully believe that is exactly what happened too. The bottom of the head is destroyed, no need to worry about a crack. Luckily I don't think there is any issue with a bent rod however. The piston took all of the damage.

X2, first one dropped, second one was broke off by impact!

Very lucky if rod is not bent with such major damage to top of piston; these engines must have very robust rods!!! :shock:

diesel_guy86 · **Posted:** Mon Jul 04, 2016 1:04 pm

My thoughts on this;

Everyone knows im running one of the most modded crd engines around, my engine hits 1,000°F regularly and 1,200° egts quite often.

My egr was active up to 148,000 miles.

My injectors are extrude honed 30%, so im overfuelling all the time.

Im also running more boost than normal.

My point is, if anyones engine was going to drop a valve due to heat, boost, egr, etc etc it would have been mine. Im up to just shy of 200,000 miles now.

If its botched t-belt job, id think every valve would be hitting correct?

This sounds like it is a manufacturing defect/flaw 100%, looking for a pattern or scratching our heads at the problem is only going to result in more failures.
Sodium filled valves are expensive and i dont think are necessary, just get some high quality stainless steel ones made.

Lets not forget other sources for valve failure, sticky/ worn guides, weakening springs, abnormal head bolt torque "twisting" the head and so on.

Again, my :2cents:

95Z28A4 · **Joined:** Sun Mar 30, 2014 9:53 am **Posts:** 297

diesel_guy86 wrote:

This sounds like it is a manufacturing defect/flaw 100%, looking for a pattern or scratching our heads at the problem is only going to result in more failures.
Sodium filled valves are expensive and i dont thjnk are necessary, just get some high quality stainless steel ones made.

I am interested in Ferrea's assessment of the failed valves. They may have a clue.

I agree, sodium filled valves are expensive. High quality one piece stainless steel valves from Manley or Ferrea should be up to the task.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:45 pm

What is the date stamped on the cylinder head?

My old head had a date from 2004.
My replacement head is a 2007.

diesel_guy86 · **Posted:** Mon Jul 04, 2016 4:48 pm

flash7210 wrote:

What is the date stamped on the cylinder head?

My old head had a date from 2004.
My replacement head is a 2007.

Where is the date stamp at for those of us who dont know.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Mon Jul 04, 2016 5:22 pm

diesel_guy86 wrote:

flash7210 wrote:

What is the date stamped on the cylinder head?

My old head had a date from 2004.
My replacement head is a 2007.

Where is the date stamp at for those of us who dont know.

I'd have to look at the head to tell you for sure.
Unfortunately I'm not at home to do that.

But I have a picture:

rankom · **Posted:** Mon Jul 04, 2016 5:40 pm

i remember last year we had a discussion on another thread about this whether we should remove cylinder head at 100,000 miles anyway for inspection so that voted NO . anyhow diesel guy explained many possibilities what could happened so as WW on air cool engine , also olippoper see valve separated on marine engines, YES this is a concern for sure , because everyone dumped so much money into this thinks already. anyway my experience on big truck engines i seen it mostly if something goes through air intake or injector tip brakes a part do to water in fuel , this engine drops mostly exhaust vale and one or two intake valves , so it is difficult to blame overheat , i did comment on parts quality before , but I'm going to give one more guess , seams to me that somehow one valve does not close fast enough and gets slight help from piston to get back in its close position and finely piston gets so mad that punch him in face . well hope Geordi takes those broken valves to the experts for inspection . cheers

geordi · **Posted:** Mon Jul 04, 2016 7:54 pm

Here's the date on this one. I'd have to see about the date on the other trashed head I have - that one (IIRC) came from a motor from Louisville, but I know very little history on that one. It dropped the #4 though.

Interestingly - It looks like the codes on yours are different - FA and 74F, whatever that means. Had that head dropped any valves?

flash7210 · **Posted:** Mon Jul 04, 2016 8:18 pm

No. I haven't had any broken valves.
But if you are trying to identify bad batches of valves, date codes will help.

My 2004 head had cracks around the exhaust valve seats at 160k miles.
My 2007 head is the replacement.

rankom · **Posted:** Sun Jul 10, 2016 7:50 pm

well definitely updating valves with better quality would be good idea when engine is a part to do rockers job but its to late for some because we been there already , anyway , i wish they stay with old system FIAT uses only old DOHC (caps and shims) with axes covers so you can visually see valves rotating nicely when engine is running when engine is running , oh well i guess old system was too old and no good no more

spoon · **Posted:** Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:56 am

I had an intake drop on #1 cyl. When I found this I had pulled the valve cover to start a head bolt replacement with ARP studs and to replace the rockers as the engine had 100,000 miles with the EGR working. Up to that point the engine was running great, no indication of a problem. I don't know how long the rocker had been broken but it was not fresh. At that point I pulled the head and removed several valves for an inspection. Nothing out of the ordinary was found. Looking back I should have looked at the valve more closely. The corrosion on the broken valve is hard to see without magnification. Using a 10 X loop its easy to see. The broken valve is the same one with the earlier broken rocker. I think the valve being fully closed for who knows how long caused the corrosion. As you know the inside of the engine was black. When I dropped the pan and started the cleanup there was a full cup of sludge. The design of the pan will not allow the gunk to drain during an oil change. Add a gunk producing engine with the EGR working and you have a corrosion factory. I will pull the valves from the head and examine them for signs of corrosion.

geordi · **Posted:** Tue Jul 12, 2016 2:26 am

spoon wrote:

I had an intake drop on #1 cyl. When I found this I had pulled the valve cover to start a head bolt replacement with ARP studs and to replace the rockers as the engine had 100,000 miles with the EGR working. Up to that point the engine was running great, no indication of a problem. I don't know how long the rocker had been broken but it was not fresh. At that point I pulled the head and removed several valves for an inspection. Nothing out of the ordinary was found. Looking back I should have looked at the valve more closely. The corrosion on the broken valve is hard to see without magnification. Using a 10 X loop its easy to see. The broken valve is the same one with the earlier broken rocker. I think the valve being fully closed for who knows how long caused the corrosion. As you know the inside of the engine was black. When I dropped the pan and started the cleanup there was a full cup of sludge. The design of the pan will not allow the gunk to drain during an oil change. Add a gunk producing engine with the EGR working and you have a corrosion factory. I will pull the valves from the head and examine them for signs of corrosion.

Please take lots of pictures. You can email them to me or dump them in a zip file in a dropbox folder and share the link. Thanks and sorry for your valve failure. Was there any significant piston damage? What do you plan to do now - rebuild or replace?

Jsamps1345 · **Posted:** Tue Jul 12, 2016 6:23 pm

Here is the code for my head, no dropped valves. Don't know if this helps

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

New project - Found 2 dropped valves.

Who is online