Axle tube spun inside pumpkin

fermill403 · **Posted:** Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:29 pm

Has this ever happend to anyone? The passenger rear axle tube has spun a half inch counter clock wise. the rear shock got bent do John Bull trail. I went to replace the shock this evening and could not get it into place. After investigating the problem further I noticed that nothing lined up like it should. I guess the question I have is could the axle tube be spun back into place and be rewelded?

JJsTJ · **Posted:** Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:43 pm

WOW! Dang Doug it sounds like you are the 1st to do that! Never heard of it happening on a KJ before. You might be able to get it spun back and fixed, but I'm guessing it will have to be removed and on a bench to do it.
Remind me to not let you drive my Jeeps! :shock:

nickmv · **Posted:** Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:47 pm

what kind of wheeling were you doing exactly? The Paris-Dakar Rally?!!!? I've never heard of that happening

fermill403 · **Posted:** Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:51 pm

JJsKJ wrote:

WOW! Dang Doug it sounds like you are the 1st to do that! Never heard of it happening on a KJ before. You might be able to get it spun back and fixed, but I'm guessing it will have to be removed and on a bench to do it.
Remind me to not let you drive my Jeeps! :shock:

Riding along to see that SFA was just fine.

XJMA · **Posted:** Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:16 am

wow, you need a truss. I beat the crap outa my 8.25 and it has yet to spin a tube. Weld em up and truss em. if it's straight as it sits, just cut off the shock mount and relocate it.

fermill403 · **Posted:** Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:36 am

XJMA wrote:

wow, you need a truss. I beat the crap outa my 8.25 and it has yet to spin a tube. Weld em up and truss em. if it's straight as it sits, just cut off the shock mount and relocate it.

Please explain a little further. What is a truss? It sounds like my problem is a somewhat common experience, but not on the 8.25. I would still like to see if I can put a big booty pipe wrench on it and spin it back home, and give it a big old fat plug weld. What do you think? I was looking at a schematic of the rear end and it seems like I can reweld w/o pulling an axle.

JJsTJ · **Posted:** Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:21 am

fermill403 wrote:

XJMA wrote:

wow, you need a truss. I beat the crap outa my 8.25 and it has yet to spin a tube. Weld em up and truss em. if it's straight as it sits, just cut off the shock mount and relocate it.

Please explain a little further. What is a truss? It sounds like my problem is a somewhat common experience, but not on the 8.25. I would still like to see if I can put a big @$#% pipe wrench on it and spin it back home, and give it a big old fat plug weld. What do you think? I was looking at a schematic of the rear end and it seems like I can reweld w/o pulling an axle.

Try it. Maybe it Will work. I think at the very least you should get it back lined up the way it was before welding it again. In addition to plug welding it, I say weld a bead on the tubes too, but I don't think a truss is neccessary. Oh and remove about 3-4 lbs or so from your right shoe. :wink:

hankwood · **Posted:** Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:08 pm

if the axle tube has spun in the housing, that means the only thing keeping it from coming apart is the c-clip. which is very bad, and definitely not safe to be driving around on. the only way to fix it correctly is to take it to someone who narrows axles and use an alignment jig to line everything up so it won't eat axle bearings before welding it up. i have seen and fixed several spun tubes, which is why i weld around the tube where it is pressed into the housing on all axles i build just to make sure they don't come apart. if it's still under warranty, or even if it's not, i would have it towed to wherever it is getting fixed because if that comes apart the two halves are going to hit the ground in the center and tip the top of the tires in until they hit the inner fenderwells, which would make an ugly wreck at highway speeds.

Jeepjeepster · **Posted:** Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:57 pm

hankwood wrote:

if the axle tube has spun in the housing, that means the only thing keeping it from coming apart is the c-clip. which is very bad, and definitely not safe to be driving around on. the only way to fix it correctly is to take it to someone who narrows axles and use an alignment jig to line everything up so it won't eat axle bearings before welding it up. i have seen and fixed several spun tubes, which is why i weld around the tube where it is pressed into the housing on all axles i build just to make sure they don't come apart. if it's still under warranty, or even if it's not, i would have it towed to wherever it is getting fixed because if that comes apart the two halves are going to hit the ground in the center and tip the top of the tires in until they hit the inner fenderwells, which would make an ugly wreck at highway speeds.

That may not all be correct. If its spun 1/2in, then i would say its not far enough out to put pressure on the c-clips yet. It would need to spin more than that to do what you are saying, but then again I could be wrong.

hankwood · **Posted:** Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:05 pm

when axles with cast center sections are built they rely on two things to keep the tubes in place, the tolerence fit by pressing a tube into the slightly under-sized hole bored into the casting, and the two plug welds. if the tube has spun at all it means both things they are counting on have failed. the reason it stopped at half an inch is that a raised part of the plug weld that was sheared finally got wedged between the tube and the housing, which usually results in a hairline crack. so now, instead of the tube being tight all the way around inside the housing, it is only tight where the two plug welds seized and it can now wiggle back and forth on those two high points. it won't take much driving with that tube flexing inside the housing to widen the cracks and the tube WILL slide out until the only thing keeping it from pulling further apart is the c clip inside the carrier. this happens most frequently in 1/2 and 3/4 ton trucks with dana 44 front axles running big tires. the additional weight of bigger tires plus jumping or bouncing the front end of the truck while wheeling hard makes the spring perch on the axle (or 4 link mounts) act as a pivot point for a lever with the bouncing, heavy tire on one end and the pressed and welded together center section on the other end. when this happens enough times to open up the housing just a small amount on axles without c clips, out comes the tube and axle and the ends hit the ground. if the axle has c clips, it flexes up and down a while longer until the c clip shears.

Jeepjeepster · **Posted:** Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:26 pm

hankwood wrote:

when axles with cast center sections are built they rely on two things to keep the tubes in place, the tolerence fit by pressing a tube into the slightly under-sized hole bored into the casting, and the two plug welds. if the tube has spun at all it means both things they are counting on have failed. the reason it stopped at half an inch is that a raised part of the plug weld that was sheared finally got wedged between the tube and the housing, which usually results in a hairline crack. so now, instead of the tube being tight all the way around inside the housing, it is only tight where the two plug welds seized and it can now wiggle back and forth on those two high points. it won't take much driving with that tube flexing inside the housing to widen the cracks and the tube WILL slide out until the only thing keeping it from pulling further apart is the c clip inside the carrier. this happens most frequently in 1/2 and 3/4 ton trucks with dana 44 front axles running big tires. the additional weight of bigger tires plus jumping or bouncing the front end of the truck while wheeling hard makes the spring perch on the axle (or 4 link mounts) act as a pivot point for a lever with the bouncing, heavy tire on one end and the pressed and welded together center section on the other end. when this happens enough times to open up the housing just a small amount on axles without c clips, out comes the tube and axle and the ends hit the ground. if the axle has c clips, it flexes up and down a while longer until the c clip shears.

Well, your guessed it, i was wrong. :wink:

XJMA · **Posted:** Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:28 pm

Here's the first image of a truss that I could find. There are many versions of how you can do it, but basically it goes over the top and is welded to the two axle tubes. Sometimes it is also welded to the top of the diff, but not always, cause that's tricky.

here is TnT's prefabbed truss for the 8.8. Although just bending tube and making your own is better than nothing and will usually suffice, this would be much stronger/ideal.

However, hankwood seems to have some experience with these matters and I guess the best thing would be to take the think apart, give it to someone with a jig and make sure it's straight. You may be able to just have it welded, but it's probably better to go all out and make sure it's straight. I've never heard of this happening on an 8.25 though!! If you weld it like it is and it's not aligned properly, then it could eat up bearings more quickly...which would suck.

fermill403 · **Posted:** Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:48 pm

Here is the kicker. This rear end is only been under the jeep about 5 mos. I backed into a rock on a trail and drained the whole thing bone dry. splattered the pinon bearing and the pinon bearing seat.
I took it to the shop that did the work today after work and he said the same thing "never in an 8.25". Well anyway its going under the knife Monday. Getting the whole thing replaced at no cost to me. Warrenties are great.
I looked at the plug welds under there today and the person that put this one together must of done it about 5 mins to quiting time because there was barely any weld in side the plug. Check your plug welds guys.

Cacher123 · **Posted:** Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:13 pm

Whassa plug weld?

Jeger · **Posted:** Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:29 pm

this isnt our axle but you can see the hole that has been welded up where the tube goes into the diff

just to the right of the yellowish looking area

XJMA · **Posted:** Fri Jun 09, 2006 1:31 am

Strange. Must have been when you drained the thing, maybe it heated the whole pumpkin up too much, weakened things up. Cause seriously, the way I beat on my 8.25 I'm surprised the only thing that isn't happy on it is the pinion bearing. That thing freakin takes a beating. Lots of people run them hard, and the worst things about them are the gear limitations (4.56), Low hanging lip (grinding wheel helps), and the pinion seals/bearings not liking to be lifted too much. Other than that it's a very solid axle. Never seen/heard of anyone busting a shaft in one(not that it has never happened). But of all the axles that it's pretty much recommended that if you're really wheelin it, you need to atleast weld the tubes, the 8.25 isn't one of them. Maybe time to add it to the list.

I duno how many salvage yards you have in the area, but it woudl probably be cheaper if you could find one from a wrecked KJ!! It would be a lot of work to straighten it out if it's not right..and then if the pumpkin is cracked?????

Axle tube spun inside pumpkin

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