Hammering Noise

dchris · **Posted:** Thu Sep 22, 2016 8:36 pm

My 05 CRD has developed a hammering noise in the top of the engine. I was driving on the highway when I slowed for a left turn. When I began to accelerate the trans down shifted, power loss accompanied by black smoke coming out the tailpipe. I nursed it the 2 miles home. The engine idles rough but is not misfiring. The hammering is coming from the upper region of the engine, sounds like form the exhaust side. The noise follows the RPM.
6,000 mi ago I installed a cam belt and pump kit.

Any suggestions as to what may have gone wrong will be welcome.

dchris74@gmail.com

flash7210 · **Posted:** Thu Sep 22, 2016 8:44 pm

Doesnt sound good.
Pulling the injectors may give you a clue. If the injector tip looks mashed, thats a sign of something broken in the cylinder.
Pulling the glow plugs wouldnt hurt either.

OTOH, broken torque converter bolts will also create some bad sounds.

rankom · **Posted:** Thu Sep 22, 2016 8:52 pm

I'm the only member here that experienced same scenario as you , in my case it was #1 injector sticking , i almost blew it up on the highway , i did post before my diagnosing steps .

camo · **Posted:** Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:24 am

Did you set the timing belt adjuster properly? To me it sounds like the belt moved a tooth or two.

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jws84_02 · **Posted:** Sat Sep 24, 2016 4:07 pm

Sounds like your about to loose rockers to me. Pull the cac hose and check for back pressure/popping. It's pretty suspicious it happened so close to the timing belt work. Might be from difficulties from that.

dchris · **Posted:** Sun Sep 25, 2016 3:11 pm

you all for your suggestions. Today I removed the timing cover and found, with the cam pins in place, all of my marks line up. I find a white paint mark on the crank,from someone else, that does not line up. It is off by about 4 cogs on the crank sprocket. I put the pin in the flywheel and my crank marks align. Are there more than one hole in the flywheel that could through the timing off? I hadn't thought about a glow plug tip braking off. I will pull them and see. If they are OK I guess my next step will be to pull #1 injector to check the position of the piston. I did notice flakes of soot in the engine compartment and in the hose entering the EGR control.

jws84_02 · **Posted:** Sun Sep 25, 2016 3:20 pm

There is a witness mark on the crank pulley with the cam pins in it should be at 3 o clock. There are multiple holes in the flex plate that the pin can go through

flash7210 · **Posted:** Sun Sep 25, 2016 3:23 pm

When replacing the timing belt, the crank is set at 90 ATDC.
There is a mark on the washer behind the crank sprocket bolt. It should be pointing 90 deg to the right and parallel to the ground (assuming the vehicle is parket on a level surface).
At this point, the crank pin and cam pins should all line up.
Also verify that the tensioner is set properly.

rankom · **Posted:** Sun Sep 25, 2016 3:59 pm

my opinion ,, you say timing marks lined up , so engine still runs , but making noise and black smoke . pulling injector # 1 and checking where piston position is , does not help much , you looking for hammering noise , so is it metallic , fuel knock (BLACK SMOKE ) or is it broken rocker ( NO BLACK SMOKE) or is it bottom end ready to let go , what is the oil pressure , fuel injector return test , etc there is lot to do before you decide to remove injector # 1 and see where piston is , don't start disassembly yet , find that hummer and get it out from your engine .

jws84_02 · **Posted:** Sun Sep 25, 2016 4:19 pm

rankom wrote:

my opinion ,, you say timing marks lined up , so engine still runs , but making noise and black smoke . pulling injector # 1 and checking where piston position is , does not help much , you looking for hammering noise , so is it metallic , fuel knock (BLACK SMOKE ) or is it broken rocker ( NO BLACK SMOKE) or is it bottom end ready to let go , what is the oil pressure , fuel injector return test , etc there is lot to do before you decide to remove injector # 1 and see where piston is , don't start disassembly yet , find that hummer and get it out from your engine .

Ugh.... Broken rockers can produce black smoke. Especially if they are on the intake side and the intake valves aren't opening.

rankom · **Posted:** Sun Sep 25, 2016 4:56 pm

jws84_02 wrote:

rankom wrote:

my opinion ,, you say timing marks lined up , so engine still runs , but making noise and black smoke . pulling injector # 1 and checking where piston position is , does not help much , you looking for hammering noise , so is it metallic , fuel knock (BLACK SMOKE ) or is it broken rocker ( NO BLACK SMOKE) or is it bottom end ready to let go , what is the oil pressure , fuel injector return test , etc there is lot to do before you decide to remove injector # 1 and see where piston is , don't start disassembly yet , find that hummer and get it out from your engine .

Ugh.... Broken rockers can produce black smoke. Especially if they are on the intake side and the intake valves aren't opening.

oh ok if intake rockers are broken that means valves are closed so no air deliver to combustion chamber so injector is injecting fuel into cylinder and black smoke is coming out through exhaust valves , well he must have hole somewhere to get air in cylinder , right , is this 2 stroke diesel , ? LOL you like them too don't you , well one day will see them back body .

geordi · **Posted:** Sun Sep 25, 2016 5:13 pm

dchris wrote:

you all for your suggestions. Today I removed the timing cover and found, with the cam pins in place, all of my marks line up. I find a white paint mark on the crank,from someone else, that does not line up. It is off by about 4 cogs on the crank sprocket. I put the pin in the flywheel and my crank marks align. Are there more than one hole in the flywheel that could through the timing off? I hadn't thought about a glow plug tip braking off. I will pull them and see. If they are OK I guess my next step will be to pull #1 injector to check the position of the piston. I did notice flakes of soot in the engine compartment and in the hose entering the EGR control.

OK - Hang on a sec. When the camshaft pins are installed, are the bolt holes in the crankshaft at vertical and horizontal? If not - then you do NOT have the timing correct, and the crank pin is not to be trusted, there are other large holes that the pin can find that will not tell you accurate information. I *only* trust the bolt holes in the hub and the factory witness mark at the center of the hub.

dchris · **Posted:** Sun Sep 25, 2016 7:28 pm

I should have checked back before I removed #1 injector as it only raised more questions for me, which you all answered. Removing the glow plugs proved they didn't break. Needed to scrap the crap out or there anyway. With all the pins in the witness mark on the crank is at 90 degrees so the timing did not slip. When the engine was at idle there was no black smoke. The smoke came when accelerating and was spotty not constant. Oil pressure and engine temp were both normal. I can't speak to the fuel pressure as I haven't the tools to check it. I would think a lack of fuel pressure would cause multiple misfires. I found it odd that the turbo side of the EGR control valve was very sooty. The CRD I had before the turbo side was clean.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Sun Sep 25, 2016 9:06 pm

Since you have checked all the other things you have posted, sounds to me you may be dealing with very low boost pressure? The engine does not like accelerating with real low boost and will make an unusual sound that may be perceived as a knock accompanied by lots of black smoke when you press the go pedal... The EGR valve could be stuck open and you are loosing boost backwards through it back into the exhaust manifold. Temporarily you can block off the EGR feed tube from the exhaust manifold to rule out any possibility of leak by, by installing a simple block off plate in the EGR feed tube line at the EGR valve end where they bolt together.... :roll:

See this thread for block off dimensions and instructions to install...>http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=76576&hilit

Best mod, get a Week's elbow kit and totally eliminate the EGR valve, cooler, & FCV... Remove all that crap off of your engine and throw it in the trash where it belongs!!!! :wink:

https://shop.sasquatchparts.com/products/egr-delete-jeep-liberty-crd/

dchris · **Posted:** Mon Sep 26, 2016 7:21 am

I thought of the possible stuck EGR but the hammering sound is present at idle and all other RPM. After a 24 hr cool down I started it and the hammering was immediately present. I didn't rev the engine but I'm sure there was no change in the symptoms. A bad injector has been suggested. Would that cause a hammering. This is not a knock.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:27 am

While idling and hammering, you could try disconnecting each injector doing only one at a time. If the noise stops with a injector unplugged that might be your bad injector.

You mentioned soot around the EGR port. Are you sure that the noise isn't an exhaust leak?

rankom · **Posted:** Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:34 pm

you can unplug the injectors like Flash suggested , but try to check everything else before you determine its the injector because there are only few people that experience injector problems , or they don't want to talk about them . anyhow if you need more help on how to check them , there are some old school ideas LOL. when my injector failed , engine was a making rattling noise ,a lot of black smoke at idle , i was watching crank rotations i swear few times it look like it want it to turn backwards, it was running scary . make sure check all the basics first , you don't want to misdiagnose the injector is very expensive ,

dchris · **Posted:** Mon Sep 26, 2016 9:16 pm

I have removed all 4 injectors and am having them checked by a injection rebuild shop. If they check out I will need to remove the intake for further inspection. Once I get them back I will post the results.
Thanks

rankom · **Posted:** Mon Sep 26, 2016 9:28 pm

excellent make sure they provide full report with test results print out , some fuel shop using old bench test with no value to nothing just visual test . make sure they using proper testing equipment , ( I RUN INTO THIS PROBLEM ) good luck

geordi · **Posted:** Mon Sep 26, 2016 9:46 pm

Does the sound resemble this:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5447172/CRD-bottom-end-2.mp4

Or this:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5447172/CRD-bottom-end.mov

Both of these were a bottom end failure: The rod bearings, one of the rods had lost both bearings for reasons that are still unclear.

Hammering Noise

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