Manual Transmission Conversion

pontipine · **Joined:** Sat Sep 28, 2013 2:55 pm **Posts:** 26

I wasnt aware there were any upgrade parts available for the nsg370. Any spare parts I have seen are pretty expensive considering this transmission has been around for over a decade in Chrysler applications. Even rebuilt unit seem to cost much more than a nv3550 or ax15.

As far a flywheels go I was just stating a fact. On the gasser 3.7, the total stack up of flywheel plus clutch and pressure plate is almost identical for the older solid flywheel vs new dual mass. Since the dual mass flywheel is thicker, it pressure plate is thinner and the clutch has no springs. So I don't know what you do if you welded the flywheel. You would need a clutch with springs and a thinner pressure plate that would fit. I dont know if you can mix and match these parts.

Off the shelf solid flywheels are available in Australia where the crd is available in many jeep models. But the price is ridiculous. I wpuld thonk you could get one made here for less. There are supposedly flywheels in the UK for the London taxi models that also used the crd. Not sure how you would find one of those.
It might be easier if you know the bolt pattern of the crd crank flange.

ChrisJ · **Joined:** Mon Sep 15, 2014 2:29 pm **Posts:** 34

I was more worried about the pilot bearing placement than anything when discussing the flywheel. The 3.7 bolt pattern is indeed different, so even if the depth of release bearing ride is the same, I thought the 3.7 pilot bearing rode in the crank. The VM had the pilot in the DMF for Chrysler configurations. As far as mix and match, I'm not sure either. I actually have a solid flywheel from one of the Brit LTI's, but it's 30mm shorter despite having the correct bolt pattern. Do current 3.7's have both solid and DMF as an option or are you referencing the difference between the solid gasser and DMF diesel? There's a company here in the Midwest doing upgrades and rebuilds on NSG's, but there are still better options, even a 4500 possibly.

lacabrera · **Posted:** Thu Oct 13, 2016 6:18 am

If you suffer with bad gear change especially first to second try flushing the gearbox with diesel fuel. I wouldn't recommend driving it with diesel fuel in the box. Get the wheels of the ground and run it through all the gears 1st to 6th several times, It removes a lot of the built up crap between the synchromesh. Made a difference to mine.

ChrisJ · **Joined:** Mon Sep 15, 2014 2:29 pm **Posts:** 34

I wish I'd heard that tip a couple weeks ago...I just changed out the fluid. $40 down the drain as far as I'm concerned. There's no such thing as a good 1-2 shift right now; drags every time.

lacabrera · **Posted:** Thu Oct 13, 2016 2:18 pm

ChrisJ wrote:

I wish I'd heard that tip a couple weeks ago...I just changed out the fluid. $40 down the drain as far as I'm concerned. There's no such thing as a good 1-2 shift right now; drags every time.

Picked up this tip reading the Mercedes's van forum (They use the same gearbox) use ATF synthetic. Been running it in mine for a couple years now. Still drags a bit 1st and 2nd when cold. No drag after a few miles. Plus its a lot cheaper than the recommended oil.

pontipine · **Joined:** Sat Sep 28, 2013 2:55 pm **Posts:** 26

ChrisJ wrote:

I was more worried about the pilot bearing placement than anything when discussing the flywheel. The 3.7 bolt pattern is indeed different, so even if the depth of release bearing ride is the same, I thought the 3.7 pilot bearing rode in the crank. The VM had the pilot in the DMF for Chrysler configurations. As far as mix and match, I'm not sure either. I actually have a solid flywheel from one of the Brit LTI's, but it's 30mm shorter despite having the correct bolt pattern. Do current 3.7's have both solid and DMF as an option or are you referencing the difference between the solid gasser and DMF diesel? There's a company here in the Midwest doing upgrades and rebuilds on NSG's, but there are still better options, even a 4500 possibly.

The 2004 and older had the solid flywheel with the nv3500 (?) transmission. When they switched to the nsg370 they also changed to the dual mass flywheel. Apparently the 4cyl versions only had the dual mass option.

The 3.7 bearing rides in the crank. So if the VM Chrysler applications put the pilot in the flywheel it will be difficult to find a solid mass conversion unless you spend big $$ for the design from NPC in Australia or go customer made.

The company doing nsg370 rebuilds is called Midwest or in the mid west or both?

The NV4500 would be more than enough for the 2.8 VM but will it fit? They are quite large and heavy. There is also the getrag g238 6spd used in the 2008 V8 Dakotas to consider. It bolts up to a 3.7 since it was offered on the v6 versions as well.

ChrisJ · **Joined:** Mon Sep 15, 2014 2:29 pm **Posts:** 34

I believe you're correct on the dual mass only being used with the four cylinder. Yes, the VM application had the pilot in the DMF, but my best bet still is to have a 30mm flywheel adapter made that can also house the pilot. I'm fairly certain that the VM uses the same starter gear pattern, but if they don't, I'm really up sh*t's creek.

I don't believe the 4500 will fit since the NSG takes up every ounce of available space. I've looked into the Getrag, but it would be more work than it's worth to figure a whole new swap. I believe the company is in the midwest, but it is also called Midwest Transmission. I'm not overly concerned with the strength of the trans, I'm not that rough on things. I'm looking at picking a sedan with a 2JZ Supra engine to put around in, so I may have more time to disect my turd....I still have the LSD, C200f front axle, turbo, and 3" exhaust sitting in my garage.

pontipine · **Joined:** Sat Sep 28, 2013 2:55 pm **Posts:** 26

lacabrera wrote:

ChrisJ wrote:

I wish I'd heard that tip a couple weeks ago...I just changed out the fluid. $40 down the drain as far as I'm concerned. There's no such thing as a good 1-2 shift right now; drags every time.

Picked up this tip reading the Mercedes's van forum (They use the same gearbox) use ATF synthetic. Been running it in mine for a couple years now. Still drags a bit 1st and 2nd when cold. No drag after a few miles. Plus its a lot cheaper than the recommended oil.

Straight synthetic ATF? Any particular type like +4?
Mine is unusable at -20 deg C till its warmed it for a while.
I will try the diesel flush and ATF next time.

lacabrera · **Posted:** Sun Oct 23, 2016 9:59 am

I used Carlube ATF-U don't no if that brand is available in US but ATF4+ is similar or the same oil. Because its so much cheaper than the recommended oil I plan to renew it more often.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Sat Apr 08, 2017 8:21 pm

Thanks for all of the hard with and insight fellas. I'm wondering what all is barring us from following the exact route as what's in the Euro 2.8 crd's? And is there any reason to avoid that setup? If the adapter plate just needs to be trimmed like this thread shows, then that's one large part that we don't have to import, or does it affect the stock/OEM spacing?

ChrisJ · **Joined:** Mon Sep 15, 2014 2:29 pm **Posts:** 34

Mountainman wrote:

Thanks for all of the hard with and insight fellas. I'm wondering what all is barring us from following the exact route as what's in the Euro 2.8 crd's? And is there any reason to avoid that setup? If the adapter plate just needs to be trimmed like this thread shows, then that's one large part that we don't have to import, or does it affect the stock/OEM spacing?

Nothing is barring you from using the Euro setup. The issue is gearing. If you go through with it, I would search the Copart salvage auctions for an 02-05 lib with the five speed. The NV3500 is a better trans with better ratios. and the only issue would be making sure you have a clutch with the correct splines and diameter. I've been driving mine with the nsg370 6 speed for about two years and have put about 40k miles on it; I've found most any weaknesses your can think of.

mass-hole · **Posted:** Sun Apr 09, 2017 1:30 pm

ChrisJ wrote:

Mountainman wrote:

Thanks for all of the hard with and insight fellas. I'm wondering what all is barring us from following the exact route as what's in the Euro 2.8 crd's? And is there any reason to avoid that setup? If the adapter plate just needs to be trimmed like this thread shows, then that's one large part that we don't have to import, or does it affect the stock/OEM spacing?

Nothing is barring you from using the Euro setup. The issue is gearing. If you go through with it, I would search the Copart salvage auctions for an 02-05 lib with the five speed. The NV3500 is a better trans with better ratios. and the only issue would be making sure you have a clutch with the correct splines and diameter. I've been driving mine with the nsg370 6 speed for about two years and have put about 40k miles on it; I've found most any weaknesses your can think of.

I agree on the NV3500. it's taller 5th makes it a bit more tolerable, especially if you have bigger tires than stock. Its also got a shorter first than the 545RFE so it would be like driving a 4.10/545 combo without needing to swap gears.

The more i think about the manual swap the more I like it, because the tuning on the auto TCM is such pure savagery that it really just drags down the entire drivetrain. I wish there was a way to swap in an 845RFE and control it.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Sun Apr 09, 2017 1:53 pm

Thanks Chris, I guess if we get the stock clutch set for the 2.8 out of Europe we should be good? and you guys agree that the 3.73's will be OK, or we're still talking the 3.07's are the way to go? It looks like we can get gears from junkyard out of V6 WK's or commanders 2005-2010 as they look to have mostly used 3.07. But, I'm still trying to figure out if they have a D30a??? Guess it doesn't matter if we can stay with 3.73.

Do you think a factory 2.8 manual harness would be plug and play?

ChrisJ · **Joined:** Mon Sep 15, 2014 2:29 pm **Posts:** 34

Mountainman wrote:

Thanks Chris, I guess if we get the stock clutch set for the 2.8 out of Europe we should be good? and you guys agree that the 3.73's will be OK, or we're still talking the 3.07's are the way to go? It looks like we can get gears from junkyard out of V6 WK's or commanders 2005-2010 as they look to have mostly used 3.07. But, I'm still trying to figure out if they have a D30a??? Guess it doesn't matter if we can stay with 3.73.

Do you think a factory 2.8 manual harness would be plug and play?

I would need to do some research on whether the Euro clutch kit would work with the 5 speed because of the input shaft, but the flywheel and clutch pressure plate are bolt on.

If you ran the NV with stock tires, it would net you a 2300rpm cruise at 70mph, roughly. It all boils down to what you can live with. But, you could pull axles from a gasser manual car to get 3.55 gears front and rear. Those are the only two gear options for the D30a front axle. The axle in the front of the WK, XK and WK2 are a c200f, which is around an eight inch ring gear. I'm going to try to graft one into my lib when I get the time.

The Euro harness should be plug and play, but it's honestly not worth it. I built mine using the factory one in an afternoon. As long as you're careful not to pull pins from the ECU harness that run the drive by wire, you'll be fine haha. You can actually just run the car with the trans harness unhooked until you get time to pull it and separate the engine from trans wiring.

cerich · **Posted:** Sun Apr 09, 2017 4:34 pm

wouldn't it be a ton easier to convert a 3.7 standard to a CRD engine with a engine swap and dash swap than to convert a CRD Auto to a manual? Just find a donor CRD that was wrecked..and a standard Liberty won't be that much

ChrisJ · **Joined:** Mon Sep 15, 2014 2:29 pm **Posts:** 34

cerich wrote:

wouldn't it be a ton easier to convert a 3.7 standard to a CRD engine with a engine swap and dash swap than to convert a CRD Auto to a manual? Just find a donor CRD that was wrecked..and a standard Liberty won't be that much

Long story short, no. Swapping an entire engine, cradle, harness, front diff, ect., would be more work. Even though the axle itself and suspension parts are the same, the diff in the crd is shifted towards the driver side for pan clearance and the gasser has weaker springs. There's also the issue of certain systems that may not be interchangeable between the two. There's been talk of diesel swapping a regular liberty, but I think the process is still easier for the average person that doesn't have a cherry picker or lift to remove the engine and front subframe.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Sun Apr 09, 2017 7:07 pm

ChrisJ wrote:

cerich wrote:

wouldn't it be a ton easier to convert a 3.7 standard to a CRD engine with a engine swap and dash swap than to convert a CRD Auto to a manual? Just find a donor CRD that was wrecked..and a standard Liberty won't be that much

Long story short, no. Swapping an entire engine, cradle, harness, front diff, ect., would be more work. Even though the axle itself and suspension parts are the same, the diff in the crd is shifted towards the driver side for pan clearance and the gasser has weaker springs. There's also the issue of certain systems that may not be interchangeable between the two. There's been talk of diesel swapping a regular liberty, but I think the process is still easier for the average person that doesn't have a cherry picker or lift to remove the engine and front subframe.

X2, the wiring is a nightmare, and the one guy that tried this that I know of has had a nightmare trying to figure out the wires.

racertracer · **Posted:** Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:11 am

I would search for a used diesel jeep with a manual gearbox from Europe and have it brought over.

If customs allows it .... do some research about laws and transporting it over to this side of the ocean. Search for one that is not from a country that has the steering wheel on the opposite side.

Going about in this way may be cheaper than creating one from scratch.

For instance here is a 2007 Jeep Compass with a few kilometres on it and a manual transmission.

http://www.subito.it/auto/jeep-compass- ... htm?last=1
Prezzo 6.000 €
Tipologia Fuoristrada/SUV
Marca JEEP
Modello Compass
Allestimento 2.0 Turbodiesel Limited
Carburante Diesel
Cambio Manuale
Anno immatricolazione 2007
Km 180.000 - 189.999
Comune Belluno (BL)
macchina 4x4 perfetta e funzionanti . cinguia cambiata a 120.000 km . cisono gomme invernali e estive insieme all prezzo. .

or this Liberty / Cherokee from a dealer in a town near Florence, Italy.

http://lucca.bakeca.it/dettaglio/auto/j ... om-premium

Jeep Cherokee 2.8 CRD Limited
5.900
EURO

If I was in the market for a jeep diesel with a manual transmission, I would scrutinise going this way and if I didn't already own two CRD's, I would definitely look into bringing one over via the Italian dealer... especially the silver limited listed above.

racertracer · **Posted:** Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:42 am

Well, here it is ... I found more reading material on this subject... Don't have time to read the information now, but if you do and if you're interested then knock yourself out...

https://www.epa.gov/importing-vehicles- ... nusversion

Mountainman · **Posted:** Mon Apr 10, 2017 2:48 pm

ChrisJ wrote:

Mountainman wrote:

Thanks Chris, I guess if we get the stock clutch set for the 2.8 out of Europe we should be good? and you guys agree that the 3.73's will be OK, or we're still talking the 3.07's are the way to go? It looks like we can get gears from junkyard out of V6 WK's or commanders 2005-2010 as they look to have mostly used 3.07. But, I'm still trying to figure out if they have a D30a??? Guess it doesn't matter if we can stay with 3.73.

Do you think a factory 2.8 manual harness would be plug and play?

I would need to do some research on whether the Euro clutch kit would work with the 5 speed because of the input shaft, but the flywheel and clutch pressure plate are bolt on.

If you ran the NV with stock tires, it would net you a 2300rpm cruise at 70mph, roughly. It all boils down to what you can live with. But, you could pull axles from a gasser manual car to get 3.55 gears front and rear. Those are the only two gear options for the D30a front axle. The axle in the front of the WK, XK and WK2 are a c200f, which is around an eight inch ring gear. I'm going to try to graft one into my lib when I get the time.

The Euro harness should be plug and play, but it's honestly not worth it. I built mine using the factory one in an afternoon. As long as you're careful not to pull pins from the ECU harness that run the drive by wire, you'll be fine haha. You can actually just run the car with the trans harness unhooked until you get time to pull it and separate the engine from trans wiring.

OK, ,thanks for the info, looks like gears are essential and I'm wondering if the ax-15 will give us a cheaper and state side clutch solution?

Manual Transmission Conversion

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