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 Post subject: Overheating During Towing
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:03 pm 
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Location: The Dalles, OR.
Warm weather is here and I just noticed my new jeep is overheating while towing my boat on uphill grades. I just recently did the Weeks Stage 1 & 2 EGR delete and had the tranny rebuilt and the tranny shop said I had a pinhole leak in the tranny cooler that I should get fixed. I called the dealership for replacement cost and they said it is a tranny cooler/AC compressor combo... Is this true? not sure if this has anything to do with overheating but it IS in front of the radiator. What are the possible reasons for it to overheat? I really notice it when the AC is on!

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 Post subject: Re: Overheating During Towing
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:34 pm 
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Yes, the transmission cooler is the lower portion of the AC condensor.
Cut the lines off the trans cooler. Install a large aftermarket (Hayden) cooler and zip tie it to the grille.

Is the engine overheating?
Whats the coolant temperature getting to?
Do you have the factory stock fan clutch?
Is your electric fan working?

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 Post subject: Re: Overheating During Towing
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:42 pm 
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Location: The Dalles, OR.
Yes on long grades with AC on it will go into limp mode if I'm not watching it. Don't remember it doing that before the tranny rebuild and EGR delete (when I drained the radiator to bypass hoses) but it wasn't that hot out then either so I wasn't using my AC. No idea if it's the factory fan clutch but the electric fan is working.

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New at 164K: head gasket, rockers, exhaust valves, ARP head studs, Injectors, 5v Bosch glow plugs, water pump, timing everything, serpentine everything,
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 Post subject: Re: Overheating During Towing
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:48 pm 
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Ok, so, are you watching the temp gauge?
Where is the temp needle getting to?

Trying to figure out if the limp mode is being caused by high coolant temp or high trans temp.

In the mean time, turn the AC off while towing up hills.
And if you have to, roll down the windows and turn the heat on full blast.

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 Post subject: Re: Overheating During Towing
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:12 am 
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flash7210 wrote:
Ok, so, are you watching the temp gauge?
Where is the temp needle getting to? It's pegged

Trying to figure out if the limp mode is being caused by high coolant temp or high trans temp. Probably high coolant temps

In the mean time, turn the AC off while towing up hills.
And if you have to, roll down the windows and turn the heat on full blast.


Thanks, got that part figured out... what I don't know is if these things have common issues with stuck thermostats or radiators clogging or some other issue that may cause overheating.

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GDE FT Ecotune, EHM, Weeks kit stage 1 & 2, Carter 4600 lift pump, Upgraded tranny, Fishing boat hauler!
New at 164K: head gasket, rockers, exhaust valves, ARP head studs, Injectors, 5v Bosch glow plugs, water pump, timing everything, serpentine everything,
New at 225k: new head, timing belt


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 Post subject: Re: Overheating During Towing
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:06 am 
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Removal of the EGR system has nothing to do with your issue! Purely coincidental in your case due to time line.
You did get rid of the 5/8 coolant hose for the EGR cooler by plugging the head connection and removing the "Y" where it connected back to the return hose?

These OEM thermostats in most cases fail in the open position, not closed!

What is the weight of your boat/trailer you are towing?

Have you ever did a flush and clean of the cooling system and replaced the antifreeze?
And, what antifreeze are you using?

Are you using the tow mode function (button on side of gear shifter)? If not, you should be especially on hills or long inclines as this will help transmission from generating as much heat load when towing! :roll:

:SOMBRERO:

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Last edited by WWDiesel on Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Overheating During Towing
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:55 am 
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WWDiesel wrote:
Removal of the EGR system has nothing to do with your issue! Purely coincidental in your case due to time line.
You did get rid of the 5/8 coolant hose for the EGR cooler by plugging the head connection and removing the "Y" where it connected back to the return hose?

I mentioned that in case others have experienced a possible air bubble in the cooling system. Yes i did the hose deletes.

My boat/trailer weighs 1800 - 2000#

Never did a flush as I just bought it but it is on my list of "to do's"

Antifreeze in it is orange. Pretty sure it's not ATF+4...

I don't use tow mode when I'm travelling on the freeway at 70mph.

I'm thinking I need to do a major overhaul of the component cooling systems.

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GDE FT Ecotune, EHM, Weeks kit stage 1 & 2, Carter 4600 lift pump, Upgraded tranny, Fishing boat hauler!
New at 164K: head gasket, rockers, exhaust valves, ARP head studs, Injectors, 5v Bosch glow plugs, water pump, timing everything, serpentine everything,
New at 225k: new head, timing belt


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 Post subject: Re: Overheating During Towing
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:00 pm 
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Location: Oregon Coast Dairy Country. Land of stumps, dumps, and "Liquid Pumps"
I really, really, really, really hope you haven't used ATF+4 in your cooling system.

Factory-fill HOAT is orange
Mopar PN 68048953AB is Pink, and compatible
Zerex G05 is also compatible, HOAT, and Gold.

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 Post subject: Re: Overheating During Towing
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:45 pm 
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GordnadoCRD wrote:
I really, really, really, really hope you haven't used ATF+4 in your cooling system.

Factory-fill HOAT is orange
Mopar PN 68048953AB is Pink, and compatible
Zerex G05 is also compatible, HOAT, and Gold.

My bad, got antifreeze and ATF mixed up in my typing!!! :banghead:

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 Post subject: Re: Overheating During Towing
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:08 pm 
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WWDiesel wrote:

Are you using the tow mode function (button on side of gear shifter)? If not, you should be especially on hills or long inclines as this will help transmission from generating as much heat load when towing! :roll:

:SOMBRERO:


I believe this I'd just overdrive lockout, a tow mode would move the shift points and perhaps lock out 5th locking out 4th makes it almost un drivable, I mostly use it for compression braking


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 Post subject: Re: Overheating During Towing
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:40 pm 
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NapaBavarian wrote:
WWDiesel wrote:

Are you using the tow mode function (button on side of gear shifter)? If not, you should be especially on hills or long inclines as this will help transmission from generating as much heat load when towing! :roll:

:SOMBRERO:


I believe this I'd just overdrive lockout, a tow mode would move the shift points and perhaps lock out 5th locking out 4th makes it almost un drivable, I mostly use it for compression braking


This is correct.
The OD-off button keeps the transmission from shifting into 4th and 5th gears.
You will get TC lockup at about 38mph which is better for the transmission when pulling a heavy load.
If you dont mind driving a bit slower, you can pull up a hill at 55mph and about 2500 rpm. This will keep the fan speed up and coolant will circulate faster.

Or, if you have the stock TCM tune, you can keep OD-on and dont go faster than 59mph.
This way it hold in 4th gear and keep rpm at about 2000.

It really all depends on your driving style and how heavy your load is vs. how long and steep a hill you are trying to climb.

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 Post subject: Re: Overheating During Towing
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:34 pm 
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The weight of the boat/trailer combination of 2,000 lbs should be a breeze for the CRD as it is rated for more than double that amount. You should probably take the transmission out of overdrive for uphill climbs, but you should be O.K. to use overdrive for downhill and flat land driving, especially at 70 mph. When you rebuilt the transmission, did you upgrade the torque converter?

Hook up an OBDII reader to your port under the steering wheel and get an actual operating temperature - read that to be an actual numbers read - when you are towing. DO NOT trust the O.E. temperature gauge... a needle pointing over half really is telling you nothing other than the temperature is higher than normal. A proper numbers reading will help with diagnosis of the problem.

Start with what you know is wrong. Either replace the transmission cooler/air conditioning condenser or cut off the O.E. transmission cooler and replace it with an aftermarket cooler of the same or better heat shedding capacity. This will likely solve the problem in your case as you already wrote the problem gets worse when your A/C is on.

Test the mechanical fan clutch to see if it is engaging properly. While towing your load, and when the engine is at full operating temperature, pull off to a road side turn out and let the engine idle for a couple of minutes to cool the turbocharger. Shut the engine off and pop the hood. Reach into the fan shroud area and grab the mechanical fan. Try to turn it. If it moves, even with moderate effort, you know your mechanical fan clutch has pooched and requires replacement, or an upgrade to an electric cooling fan. There are a couple of good electric fan kits you can purchase to upgrade through Flex-A-Lite or FFDynamics. There are also the fans from Crown Victoria Police Interceptors and SHO Taurus vehicles to consider.

Are you the original owner of your CRD? Did you or the previous owner modify the cooling system to increase engine operating temperatures? There is a popular modification that can cause overheat situations because it severely restricts coolant flow. Coolant flow restrictions will usually cause overheat conditions when the engine is being worked hard, like when it is towing up hills. That modification is the installation of a second thermostat valve in the upper radiator hose, and has been the cause of numerous problems - some of them very serious - with the CRD engine. This is because the modification essentially changes the operation of the cooling system in ways not intended by the engineers of this engine.


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 Post subject: UPDATE
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:53 pm 
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WWDiesel wrote:
My bad, got antifreeze and ATF mixed up in my typing!!! :banghead:


That's all right. I do stupid ship when I'm drunk too...

So I called my radiator guy and he said it's not uncommon for the libertys with as many miles as I have to have the outside of the radiator clogged with bugs, weeds and other debris that get sucked up from the gap underneath between the intercooler and the radiator so I went to town and got some pipe insulation and when I got back I opened the hood and noticed hardly any air blowing past the shroud into the engine compartment so I took a garden hose sprayer and blasted from the front. but this didn't help so i used a spot light to see and blasted from the back through the shroud opening. First thing I noticed is this river of filthy water running out from under my rig. After some meticulous cleaning and blocking the stupid gap underneath I started it up and the viscous fan was now BLASTING air into the engine compartment. I haven't towed with it yet but this should help immensely.

flash7210 wrote:
The OD-off button keeps the transmission from shifting into 4th and 5th gears.
You will get TC lockup at about 38mph which is better for the transmission when pulling a heavy load.
If you dont mind driving a bit slower, you can pull up a hill at 55mph and about 2500 rpm. This will keep the fan speed up and coolant will circulate faster.

Or, if you have the stock TCM tune, you can keep OD-on and dont go faster than 59mph.
This way it hold in 4th gear and keep rpm at about 2000.

Great information! Thanks!

_________________
GDE FT Ecotune, EHM, Weeks kit stage 1 & 2, Carter 4600 lift pump, Upgraded tranny, Fishing boat hauler!
New at 164K: head gasket, rockers, exhaust valves, ARP head studs, Injectors, 5v Bosch glow plugs, water pump, timing everything, serpentine everything,
New at 225k: new head, timing belt


Last edited by DieselJeepLuvr on Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Overheating During Towing
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:11 pm 
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Yep sometimes we jump to thinking its something to do with mechanical system as many problems as the fan clutch and thermostat have caused but obviously air flow across radiator is also needed.

It could never hurt to flush the coolant system too and doesn't cost anything to check Fan clutch too.

Glad you got it solved.

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 Post subject: Re: UPDATE
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:14 pm 
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DieselJeepLuvr wrote:
WWDiesel wrote:
My bad, got antifreeze and ATF mixed up in my typing!!! :banghead:

That's all right. I do stupid ship when I'm drunk too...

Yea not that easy! Stone cold sober drinking coffee and thinking one thing and typing another! :ROTFL: Age dementia will get you in time! :banghead:

Hope the radiator outside cleaning solves your problem!
let us know...

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Carter Intank-pmp
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 Post subject: Re: UPDATE
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:25 am 
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DieselJeepLuvr wrote:
WWDiesel wrote:
My bad, got antifreeze and ATF mixed up in my typing!!! :banghead:


That's all right. I do stupid ship when I'm drunk too...

So I called my radiator guy and he said it's not uncommon for the libertys with as many miles as I have to have the outside of the radiator clogged with bugs, weeds and other debris that get sucked up from the gap underneath between the intercooler and the radiator so I went to town and got some pipe insulation and when I got back I opened the hood and noticed hardly any air blowing past the shroud into the engine compartment so I took a garden hose sprayer and blasted from the front. but this didn't help so i used a spot light to see and blasted from the back through the shroud opening. First thing I noticed is this river of filthy water running out from under my rig. After some meticulous cleaning and blocking the stupid gap underneath I started it up and the viscous fan was now BLASTING air into the engine compartment. I haven't towed with it yet but this should help immensely.

flash7210 wrote:
The OD-off button keeps the transmission from shifting into 4th and 5th gears.
You will get TC lockup at about 38mph which is better for the transmission when pulling a heavy load.
If you dont mind driving a bit slower, you can pull up a hill at 55mph and about 2500 rpm. This will keep the fan speed up and coolant will circulate faster.

Or, if you have the stock TCM tune, you can keep OD-on and dont go faster than 59mph.
This way it hold in 4th gear and keep rpm at about 2000.

Great information! Thanks!



I'll have to give this a shot and tow something, we are having perfect test weather in CA! As I recall the radiator package was removed as an assembly during major service.


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 Post subject: Re: Overheating During Towing
PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:43 am 
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Dirty/clogged rad/intercooler/condensor fins can definitely be a problem. The shop that did my trans rebuild did not fully seat one of the cooler lines. It popped off and soaked the front of the cooling stack. Next time I looked behind the grille, I found every speck of dust and dandelion seed I had encountered since then glued on.

I did a rudimentary clean-up from the front of the stack, but I still get an occasional whiff of ATF at the front end when it's hot (no leaks - I keep checking carefully), so it needs a thorough wash-out from the back the next time the fan & shroud come out.

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 Post subject: Re: Overheating During Towing
PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:43 am 
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DO NOT use a pressure washer directly on any cooling fins as the high pressure can bend all the delicate fins over if you are not real careful!!!! :roll:
I have seen the results of this! :shock:

A good and safe cleaner is Gunk Foamy Engine Brite Engine Degreaser! (see picture 1 below)
spray it on all finned surfaces, let it set for a little while then hose it off. Repeat if needed on any stubborn areas.
Have used this stuff for years and it works good on any under the hood cleaning projects! :wink:

Another one,
most of the big box home builder supply stores like Lowes and Home Depot sells a foaming condenser coil cleaner that works well also.
WEB Green White Aerosol Foam Coil Cleaner
SIMPLE GREEN Aerosol Condenser Cleaner
They also sell condenser cleaning brushes that can be used in conjunction with the foaming cleaners for stubborn areas.

Use a very small screwdriver or toothpick to remove any small rocks or bugs or any other foreign objects.

If any fins are bent over or flattened out, try to straighten them out with a small screwdriver or toothpick.
If you have large areas of flattened out fins, they do make fin straightening comb kits that have different size combs that work great for bigger jobs. (see picture 2 below)
Available at most any home AC supply store or home builder supply stores.

1Image 2Image

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Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
Yeti StgIV Hot Tune
Week's BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
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Carter Intank-pmp
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 Post subject: Re: Overheating During Towing
PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:54 pm 
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I got the jeep up to operating temperature and then used a pump up sprayer with Simple Green to spray both sides from the front and behind the radiator fan. Then let sit for 15-20 minutes. Then used a garden sprayer nozzle to rinse out. No pressure washer. I knew when i sprayed from back to front and water came out the ac condenser / trans cooler I was good to go. No overheating anymore towing up long grades in 90 degree weather with the AC on ! ! !

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New at 164K: head gasket, rockers, exhaust valves, ARP head studs, Injectors, 5v Bosch glow plugs, water pump, timing everything, serpentine everything,
New at 225k: new head, timing belt


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 Post subject: Re: Overheating During Towing
PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:27 pm 
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NapaBavarian wrote:
WWDiesel wrote:

Are you using the tow mode function (button on side of gear shifter)? If not, you should be especially on hills or long inclines as this will help transmission from generating as much heat load when towing! :roll:

:SOMBRERO:


I believe this I'd just overdrive lockout, a tow mode would move the shift points and perhaps lock out 5th locking out 4th makes it almost un drivable, I mostly use it for compression braking


strangely, thats how my rockers popped off ....i was on the freeway and took the O/D off to rapidly slow down........then crunch bang boom......$6000 plus CDN later...

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