It is currently Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:44 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 117 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6

Have you had a valve failure? Please fill out the form below (hit quote on post 2) if you have!
Yes 20%  20%  [ 12 ]
No 28%  28%  [ 17 ]
Not Yet (But I'm worried) 37%  37%  [ 22 ]
Not Yet (Not worried) 15%  15%  [ 9 ]
Total votes : 60
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Valve failure research thread - We need your data!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:44 pm 
Offline
LOST Newbie

Joined: Fri May 20, 2011 8:57 pm
Posts: 99
Location: New Orleans, Louisiana
i have the old valves but he cleaned them up. He said he didn't see anything obvious wrong with them. I'll see if there's anything about them that could be of interest. i'll post some pics

Congrats to the members who started these threads about valves and bolts. it really convinced me to go beyond the collapsed rockers and pull the head. glad i did since there probably already was a coolant leak, and it was likely on its way to further warping and valve trouble. it's a little early to celebrate... i still have to get it back together and get 100,000 miles out of it.

_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty CRD 110k miles - working on tb, rockers, arp, camshafts
1985 Mitsubishi Mighty Max 2.0 liter
1989 Vanagon GL


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Valve failure research thread - We need your data!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:33 pm 
Offline
LOST Addict

Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:43 am
Posts: 4296
Location: Green Cove Springs FL
Another dropped valve.
Captain Dean posted his with pictures over in the 4x4 section.

And another cracked head.
MicroBruin posted about his today too.

If you’ve made it over 200k miles without a broken valve/head you are doing something right.
Whatever that may be.

_________________
Bought my '05 CRD on June 2nd '07, used with 29,000 miles.
intake elbow and EGR delete. 7 volt Etecno glow plugs
Yeti stage 2 ECU tune. Straight pipe exhaust. DIY intercooler hoses
Provent and modified factory 180F thermostat
Replaced cylinder head (cracked) at 160,000 miles + ARP studs
2.5 inch lift, 255-75-17 tires.
Still love it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Valve failure research thread - We need your data!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:55 pm 
Online
LOST Addict
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2013 8:57 pm
Posts: 2089
Location: Boise, Idaho
WWDiesel wrote:
minnisp wrote:
anyone can google "valve failure", but this one isn't infested with pop-ups and advertising (and it's free)
https://www.rroij.com/open-access/failu ... ?aid=44965

Thank you very much for the link! A very good read that reinforces what some on LOST have been saying all along.
It is a shame the picture links on the Web page do not work (404) :(
I figured out if you click on "View PDF", you can see the pictures in the article and save the article for future reference if you so desire... :wink:

The main takeaway in the article: Fatigue failure is the main cause of valve failure. The fatigue strength is significantly decreased with increase of temperature.
The article does a good job of explaining how high temperatures over time can cause fatigue, stress cracking, and eventual failure!
I am of the opinion that temperature plays a huge roll in the valve failures and / or head cracking that some have unfortunately had happened to them... :roll:


I think the egr soot that collects around the valves makes them hotter (dissipate less heat) and/or causing them to stick, and that this is why egr infested Jeeps drop valves. Although at least half of the ones I get in to have dropped a valve because the rocker collapsed, then came apart, and managed to bind the spring into letting the keepers free. My machinist said the VW's are hard on the guides, I'll have to ask him if he's referring to egr soot laden ones

_________________
05 CRD: H.D.S2 stat, Ironrock trilink,OME lift, JBA UCA's, Moabs&245/75 Duratracs, GDE tunes ,Truetrac front,FFD fan,ARP's, 2 micron fuel, new head,rockers, cams,sasquatch battery tray & grid heater, Suncoast TC, welded EGR port & trans drain, muffler delete,
Mech fan, VH & AC delete,tensioner relocated
-CRD's being restored


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Valve failure research thread - We need your data!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:13 pm 
Offline
LOST Newbie
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 10:05 am
Posts: 58
Location: Sarasota
CRD Year:2006
[/color]Mileage at failure:80,000
Mileage with functional EGR:80,000
Method of EGR delete (elbow, GDE, SEGR, died and you didn't fix):
Most common driving (city/highway/mountains/etc):80/20 city/hw
Do you have an Exhaust Temp gauge:no
Pre or post turbo: ?
If so, most recent average running temp you remember:
Any issues with overheating in the recent history before your failure?:none
ARP studs?no
Replacement rockers?no
Time / mileage between engine work and valve failure? opening motor today
Which cylinder failed? will see
How many valves, and which ones broke? will see
Did the stem break, and was it where the chrome met the black, in the middle of the black, or at the valve "coin" itself? ?
Do you have any pictures, and can you link / post them here please? ?
Can you also post a picture / report what the cylinder head stamping was? ?

So ever since my last oil change I have had increased smoke and then TIC TIC TIC. I shut it down and got AAA'ed back to the house. My Mechanic brother and law and I are opening her up to see what it looks like. This the first major repair for my CRD other than the fuel head heater, surp belt and lift pump ing-tank. Any and all input is greatly welcomed. We are in uncharted waters. I am willing to take phone calls even. e-mail me at fishinfruition@yahoo.com will talk and take advise we know we need it.

_________________
06 crd sport 60000


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Valve failure research thread - We need your data!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:08 pm 
Online
LOST Addict
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2013 8:57 pm
Posts: 2089
Location: Boise, Idaho
JeepCRD4Me wrote:
CRD Year:2006
[/color]Mileage at failure:80,000
Mileage with functional EGR:80,000
Method of EGR delete (elbow, GDE, SEGR, died and you didn't fix):
Most common driving (city/highway/mountains/etc):80/20 city/hw
Do you have an Exhaust Temp gauge:no
Pre or post turbo: ?
If so, most recent average running temp you remember:
Any issues with overheating in the recent history before your failure?:none
ARP studs?no
Replacement rockers?no
Time / mileage between engine work and valve failure? opening motor today
Which cylinder failed? will see
How many valves, and which ones broke? will see
Did the stem break, and was it where the chrome met the black, in the middle of the black, or at the valve "coin" itself? ?
Do you have any pictures, and can you link / post them here please? ?
Can you also post a picture / report what the cylinder head stamping was? ?

So ever since my last oil change I have had increased smoke and then TIC TIC TIC. I shut it down and got AAA'ed back to the house. My Mechanic brother and law and I are opening her up to see what it looks like. This the first major repair for my CRD other than the fuel head heater, surp belt and lift pump ing-tank. Any and all input is greatly welcomed. We are in uncharted waters. I am willing to take phone calls even. e-mail me at fishinfruition@yahoo.com will talk and take advise we know we need it.


So it still runs? Don't start it, but if so, a light tic is probably not a dropped valve. Probably collapsed rocker, likely need a cam. Maybe a rod bearing if it's more of a light knock. Main bearing sounds like smacking a big hammer on the side of the block down low...

_________________
05 CRD: H.D.S2 stat, Ironrock trilink,OME lift, JBA UCA's, Moabs&245/75 Duratracs, GDE tunes ,Truetrac front,FFD fan,ARP's, 2 micron fuel, new head,rockers, cams,sasquatch battery tray & grid heater, Suncoast TC, welded EGR port & trans drain, muffler delete,
Mech fan, VH & AC delete,tensioner relocated
-CRD's being restored


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Valve failure research thread - We need your data!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:21 pm 
Offline
LOST Newbie
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 10:05 am
Posts: 58
Location: Sarasota
So it still runs? Don't start it, but if so, a light tic is probably not a dropped valve. Probably collapsed rocker, likely need a cam. Maybe a rod bearing if it's more of a light knock. Main bearing sounds like smacking a big hammer on the side of the block down low...[/quote]

Mountainman
That's kind of encouraging. It did run even after the tow. It sounded like one nut in a tin coffee can. What is with the timing cover holding down the top of engine cover? Do we need to pull the fan clutch and timing cover to get at fasteners in that area?

_________________
06 crd sport 60000


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Valve failure research thread - We need your data!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:46 pm 
Offline
LOST Addict

Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:43 am
Posts: 4296
Location: Green Cove Springs FL
Removing the valve cover requires all the same procedures for replacing the timing belt and water pump.
After that you remove the fuel rail and injectors to unbolt and remove the valve cover.
It also help to disconnect the wiring harness connections on the passenger side so you can move the harness out of the way.

If you haven’t yet replaced your timing belt and water pump, now would be a good time.
It would also be a good time to delete your EGR valve.

_________________
Bought my '05 CRD on June 2nd '07, used with 29,000 miles.
intake elbow and EGR delete. 7 volt Etecno glow plugs
Yeti stage 2 ECU tune. Straight pipe exhaust. DIY intercooler hoses
Provent and modified factory 180F thermostat
Replaced cylinder head (cracked) at 160,000 miles + ARP studs
2.5 inch lift, 255-75-17 tires.
Still love it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Valve failure research thread - We need your data!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:20 pm 
Online
LOST Addict
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2013 8:57 pm
Posts: 2089
Location: Boise, Idaho
JeepCRD4Me wrote:
So it still runs? Don't start it, but if so, a light tic is probably not a dropped valve. Probably collapsed rocker, likely need a cam. Maybe a rod bearing if it's more of a light knock. Main bearing sounds like smacking a big hammer on the side of the block down low...


Mountainman
That's kind of encouraging. It did run even after the tow. It sounded like one nut in a tin coffee can. What is with the timing cover holding down the top of engine cover? Do we need to pull the fan clutch and timing cover to get at fasteners in that area?[/quote]

How long did it run for with that sound, and was it a fairly consistent sound? Rod bearing sucks because you still have to pull the engine, but that would give a consistent knock, like clock work idle

_________________
05 CRD: H.D.S2 stat, Ironrock trilink,OME lift, JBA UCA's, Moabs&245/75 Duratracs, GDE tunes ,Truetrac front,FFD fan,ARP's, 2 micron fuel, new head,rockers, cams,sasquatch battery tray & grid heater, Suncoast TC, welded EGR port & trans drain, muffler delete,
Mech fan, VH & AC delete,tensioner relocated
-CRD's being restored


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Valve failure research thread - We need your data!
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:50 pm 
Offline
LOST Newbie
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 10:05 am
Posts: 58
Location: Sarasota
So after the big nut in a coffee can sounds came the run time was maybe 15 second. Also is that fan clutch nut a left or right to remove. Its is giving us fits. I am going to move this to a new thread.

_________________
06 crd sport 60000


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Valve failure research thread - We need your data!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:43 pm 
Offline
LOST Newbie
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2005 9:12 pm
Posts: 72
Location: NoVA / DC Metro
geordi wrote:
CRD Year:
Mileage at failure: Under 70k
Mileage with functional EGR: Under 10k
Method of EGR delete (elbow, GDE, SEGR, died and you didn't fix):SEGR when it was introduced, GDE later
Most common driving (city/highway/mountains/etc):Combo: 75% City, 22% Highway, 3% Towing
Do you have an Exhaust Temp gauge: No
Pre or post turbo:
If so, most recent average running temp you remember:
Any issues with overheating in the recent history before your failure?:No
ARP studs?No
Replacement rockers? No
Time / mileage between engine work and valve failure?Timing belt was replaced 14 months prior, ~7K miles, HDS thermostat installed 3 months prior, ~2K miles
Which cylinder failed?#3
How many valves, and which ones broke?One, Exhaust
Did the stem break, and was it where the chrome met the black, in the middle of the black, or at the valve "coin" itself?Middle of black
Do you have any pictures, and can you link / post them here please? Will attempt to do so
Can you also post a picture / report what the cylinder head stamping was?



Vehicle purchased 2/2005. Used for light towing of motorcycle race trailer, occasionally flat-pulling a Miata. Was on a trip, Jeep had been running for ~5 hours, came off highway, came to stop sign, accelerated away, hit 2nd, rattled like mad, then silent and I was coasting. Attempted restart, rattled then refused to turn over. Coasted. Had vehicle towed. Sat for 6 months before finally getting the time to dig into it. Immediately found #3 injector showing impact damage. Pulling the intake manifold (whatever we call that thing) and saw one raised valve spring.

Image

Image

Image

_________________
Current Stable: (YES, I have a problem. NO, I don't want "help".)
FOUR Wheelers: 05 Jeep CRD Liberty, 09 VW Sportwagen TDI, 2000, Honda Odyssey, 1994 Mazda Miata, 2000 Mazda Miata
TWO Wheelers: 06 Triumph 675, 04 BMW R1150RT


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Valve failure research thread - We need your data!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:06 pm 
Offline
LOST Newbie

Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:39 pm
Posts: 3
I am submitting this data for my son's CRD... mine has 137k and has not experienced any failure.

His CRD valve failure occurred when he was climbing a hill and noticed the temperature gauge rising. He pulled over at the next off ramp and at this point the engine lost power and stalled. He let it cool for a bit and checked the engine compartment before attempting to restart it. It would not restart. I posted a request for repair advice in the regular forum section. Here is his data so far.

CRD Year: 2005
Mileage at failure: 195K
Mileage with functional EGR: unknown... likely all 195k
Method of EGR delete (elbow, GDE, SEGR, died and you didn't fix): not done
Most common driving (city/highway/mountains/etc): mix of city/highway with some climbs to cooler weather
Do you have an Exhaust Temp gauge: no
Pre or post turbo: n/a
If so, most recent average running temp you remember: n/a
Any issues with overheating in the recent history before your failure?: it was overheating just before it lost power and stalled during a hill climb.
ARP studs? No
Replacement rockers? No
Time / mileage between engine work and valve failure? approximately 10k since the belt/water pump was replaced (did the replacement when he got the jeep as he did not have any documentation from the previous owner)
Which cylinder failed? 2nd from the front
How many valves, and which ones broke? 1 exhaust valve broke (the one closest to the 3rd cylinder)
Did the stem break, and was it where the chrome met the black, in the middle of the black, or at the valve "coin" itself? Close to where the chrome meets the black... I need to confirm when we remove the stem.
Do you have any pictures, and can you link / post them here please? I do however I do not have an account on a picture hosting site... sorry.
Can you also post a picture / report what the cylinder head stamping was? I will look for this tonight and update.

Thanks.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Valve failure research thread - We need your data!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:26 pm 
Offline
LOST Addict
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:51 pm
Posts: 5868
Location: Somewhere between Heaven and Hell... But it is really hot here on Earth...
Dang... I missed the report on the one at 70k miles, that is by far the lowest I've heard about. This is definitely looking like something that should not be ignored on these CRDs. Too bad the bankruptcy protects Chrysler, this definitely seems to be something that could be actionable if they weren't shielded.

_________________
Proud supporting vendor of LOST Jeeps
Provider of high quality CRD service in your driveway.
Need help? Just ask! I've taken it apart more than most.
Email (button below) is preferred to PM
Over 70 CRDs currently driving with my timing belt, rockers, or ARP Studs.
Just remember: Bad noises = REALLY bad things.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Valve failure research thread - We need your data!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:53 pm 
Online
LOST Addict
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:36 pm
Posts: 3958
Location: Central GA
I believe it is very good advise to say:
"If you pull your head for any reason, REPLACE all of the exhaust valves regardless of mileage".

Same rule we used on air cooled VW's, we never reused exhaust valves, they went in the trash because they were so bad about breaking where the stem met the taper. :roll:

cheap insurance.... :juggle:

_________________
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Blk Brush Guard/Hella's/LED's
Ironman Springs/Bilstein's
Yeti Stg4 MaxTune
Weeks ElbowKit/BatteryTray
NO FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pump
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NOcat
V6 Airbox
GM11 blade fan/NAPA HDclutch
Ironrock Trilink
98 Dodge Cummins, 5"exh. Viair, Huge K&N


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Valve failure research thread - We need your data!
PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 1:16 am 
Offline
LOST Addict
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 9:12 pm
Posts: 1925
Location: Oregon Coast Dairy Country. Land of stumps, dumps, and "Liquid Pumps"
Well, cheaper than dropped valves anyway.

_________________
'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 150K

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauges

IDParts
head
cams
rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GX2123 5v GPs

YETI Custom Tune
Flowmaster 8325508
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15976889
PATC Custom Billet
2010 Ram Hemi Trans
Sonnax 44957
Transgo kit
Cooper 51770


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Valve failure research thread - We need your data!
PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:22 pm 
Offline
LOST Newbie

Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 2:19 pm
Posts: 68
Location: Shelton, WA
WWDiesel wrote:
I believe it is very good advise to say:
"If you pull your head for any reason, REPLACE all of the exhaust valves regardless of mileage".

Same rule we used on air cooled VW's, we never reused exhaust valves, they went in the trash because they were so bad about breaking where the stem met the taper. :roll:

cheap insurance.... :juggle:


So when my belt broke at 96K I went ahead a did the whole number, ARP studs, brand new head, gasket, rockers. Cams looked perfect so I reused them and of course a belt kit, waterpump and HDS thermostat (this thing works well)

Was I suppose to have the exhaust valves upgraded in the new factory head somehow? Jitters.

_________________
Purchased 2006 LIberty CRD 82,000 Sport 2016.01.06
Since purchase:
Sam's NOOB Checklist Completed
SS Cat Back Exhaust, Full EGR Delete, EH Mod to Provent, Michelin 245/70 R16 AT/2
Stock Tune, Serpentine Belt Service,160 Amp Alternator
10/2017 96K, New Head, Injectors, ARP Studs...
04/2018 99K, New Reman Trans with goodies from StreetSmart


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Valve failure research thread - We need your data!
PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:49 pm 
Online
LOST Addict
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:36 pm
Posts: 3958
Location: Central GA
vwroad87 wrote:
So when my belt broke at 96K I went ahead a did the whole number, ARP studs, brand new head, gasket, rockers. Cams looked perfect so I reused them and of course a belt kit, waterpump and HDS thermostat (this thing works well)

Was I suppose to have the exhaust valves upgraded in the new factory head somehow? Jitters.

If it was a "new" factory head, did it come with new valves, you did not say?

_________________
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Blk Brush Guard/Hella's/LED's
Ironman Springs/Bilstein's
Yeti Stg4 MaxTune
Weeks ElbowKit/BatteryTray
NO FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pump
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NOcat
V6 Airbox
GM11 blade fan/NAPA HDclutch
Ironrock Trilink
98 Dodge Cummins, 5"exh. Viair, Huge K&N


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Valve failure research thread - We need your data!
PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:39 pm 
Offline
LOST Newbie

Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 2:19 pm
Posts: 68
Location: Shelton, WA
WWDiesel wrote:
vwroad87 wrote:
So when my belt broke at 96K I went ahead a did the whole number, ARP studs, brand new head, gasket, rockers. Cams looked perfect so I reused them and of course a belt kit, waterpump and HDS thermostat (this thing works well)

Was I suppose to have the exhaust valves upgraded in the new factory head somehow? Jitters.

If it was a "new" factory head, did it come with new valves, you did not say?


Yes with valves from ID. I have the other head, it looks perfect but was advised to replace it since I had it all apart and have the other one rebuilt. Now I'm sooo glad I did after reading through this thread. Need to find a re-builder in the greater Seattle area.

_________________
Purchased 2006 LIberty CRD 82,000 Sport 2016.01.06
Since purchase:
Sam's NOOB Checklist Completed
SS Cat Back Exhaust, Full EGR Delete, EH Mod to Provent, Michelin 245/70 R16 AT/2
Stock Tune, Serpentine Belt Service,160 Amp Alternator
10/2017 96K, New Head, Injectors, ARP Studs...
04/2018 99K, New Reman Trans with goodies from StreetSmart


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 117 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: kkoudijs, Mountainman, papaindigo, SJBrooks and 21 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group. Color scheme by ColorizeIt!
Logo by pixeldecals.com