Hello. I know this has been discussed lots before here, but after reviewing all the threads, I think I still need more info from the group: does anyone have experience installing/driving/wheeling a Eaton Truetrac or Eaton E-locker on the D30a? Does a locker/LSD put more strain on the housing; or, conversely, does it equalize loads? Worth it/cost? Affect steering/2hi driving? What are your overall impressions?

Basically I have an 02 limited (130k easy miles) with the oem trac lok rear and I'd like to install something in the front to equalize grip/off road performance. NOT expecting to rock crawl, but do want a competent offroader that can handle most situations. First thought was the TT, but a few shops have suggested that only a selectable locker is appropriate for the front differential. At 1700 installed in a questionably troublesome D30a, not sure that's a good investment. Maybe put the locker in the rear? But, OTOH, I already have a LSD so not sure it'd be worth the extra cost for the type of wheeling (overall 4wd travel vehicle, not dedicated offroad warrior). Thoughts???
And thanks!

For the most flexible selectable locker arrangement, I'd recommend the Auburn ECTED. When unlocked, they're an LSD; I ran them front and rear (D30 / D44) in my last XJ and traction was amazing with them in there. Not available for the C8.25, unfortunately.

However, I would not run one in a D30A. The idea of even putting a Trac-Loc in one of those scares me - the housings just aren't up to the stress.

Your call on how to proceed, but replacing the D30A either with an SFA setup or a steel housing would be my first step - that or just skipping the front locker idea and concentrating on the rear. Options are a lot better to have immediate benefits back there for less time, money, and effort, and it'll at least get one end locked while you figure out what to do about the front.

_________________
2005 KJ CRD Limited 4x4:
245/75R16 BFG TA KO2s
OME / Clevis 2.5" Lift
JBA Lifted A-Arms
IRO WJ Short Rear UCA/WWDiesel mount
Skid Row Skidplates
HDS Model 001 Thermostat (190°F)
Suncoast TC
Full Weeks Kit
Bosch 5V glow plugs
Hayden 2986 fan clutch / GM 11-blade fan
Samco / Sasquatch Intake Hoses
Carter in-tank pump
Provent 200
V6 Airbox

Thought about putting only a rear locker in - may be the only good long term option (replacing front housings is NOT something I want to do). Some say, however, that locked front differentials have a longer lifespan due to equalized loads. No idea if that's true or not because I'm fairly new to the mechanics of offroading. And another wrinkle, JBA has officially stopped producing the steel D30 IFS housing (confirmed via email this week). So sadly the only sort of true upgrade for the front end is gone, nor do I know of any kits that physically reinforce the casing. So it seems the stock D30a is what I'm stuck with.

As far as putting a cone or clutch style LSD on the front of the KJ, not something I want to do. With friction materials constantly working and being spun by the live axles, I can't imagine the ected would last long and wouldn't affect the steering even during 2hi operation. At least with TT, without torque applied it's completely unlocked. But yeah, the ECTED seems like the ultimate do-it-all rear locker.

Don't blame you - I really don't want to either. I've pretty much decided to leave the front diff alone on this Jeep because of all the hoops necessary to replace it with something beefier.

Gusseting it looks impractical due to its shape and mounting location, and a stronger diff cover is only going to go so far (i.e., not very).



This is a point that I've heard before, and recommend subjecting to some scrutiny.

Consider this: with a selectable locker at the front, 99% of the time you're not going to be doing any 'load equalisation' because it's operating fully-open when you don't need it to be locked. If it wasn't, steering would be a real PITA

In addition to that: if the diff is locked in 4WD and you have one wheel in the air and one on the ground, the minute the one in the air hits the ground, you're still going to put a shock loading on the diff. Granted, it probably won't be as severe as with an open axle and the amount of shock will be dependent on how you contact the ground - but it's still going to happen, and that will have an effect on all of the diff components. Not to mention that not every obstacle requires a locking an axle (front or rear) to get over it so this can happen with the diff unlocked, thus making it all a moot point.

Based on the above, I encourage you to draw your own conclusions.



All I can say is that in over 50,000 miles of use before I sold the XJ that the ECTEDs were installed in, they performed flawlessly. This was a daily driver / weekend warrior that was used both for commuting as well as in Southern California desert and mountain conditions on extended trail runs ranging from dirt and sand to mud, snow, and rocks. We're not talking hardcore rockcrawling, but I had no qualms about taking it through double black-diamond-rated stuff (and, occasionally, a bit more than that).

Steering remained unaffected in daily usage in 2WD. The only time I had an issue was when I accidentally engaged the front locker at 70mph on the freeway - I was shifting into 4HI Full-Time due to approaching rain and knocked the switch for the front locker into the 'on' position by mistake. Even then, I was able to safely move over to the shoulder and get it disengaged after some back up 20 feet / move forward 20 feet repetitions. Either way, that was my fault, not the lockers', and not related to the LSD functionality.

_________________
2005 KJ CRD Limited 4x4:
245/75R16 BFG TA KO2s
OME / Clevis 2.5" Lift
JBA Lifted A-Arms
IRO WJ Short Rear UCA/WWDiesel mount
Skid Row Skidplates
HDS Model 001 Thermostat (190°F)
Suncoast TC
Full Weeks Kit
Bosch 5V glow plugs
Hayden 2986 fan clutch / GM 11-blade fan
Samco / Sasquatch Intake Hoses
Carter in-tank pump
Provent 200
V6 Airbox

Good info, thanks. Lots to consider and another thing that you brought up gives me some pause on the locker: accidentally engagement!

Theoretically you can wire two toggle switches in series one for power and the other for engagement. Maybe that’d be fine?

Realistically I only wanted to install a front lsd to compliment the rear but all the talk about splitting casings and steering effects have me concerned. And then there’s how I use the vehicle a lot - driving through mountainous nor cal winter storms. Even with the weak trac lok in the rear the kJ got squirrelly fast.

So I guess It’d the best for me to install a locker in the rear only... but no one makes a e-locker for c8.25”. And I’m not a fan of running a separate air compressor... so not sure where that leaves me.


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I didn't think about that beforehand, either . If I were doing it over again, I'd make two changes:

1) Use a different type of switch. In this case, Carling Contura II switches were used, and they're essentially a simple (but semi-rugged) SPST toggle switch. Very easy to accidentally switch on and off; something more similar in operation to a missile switch would be a safer bet.

2) Put them in a different location. I fit them to the blank space in the XJ's centre console just in front of the transfer case lever. This was great for accessibility from the driver's seat, but the day that I reached my hand too far forward while going for the transfer case lever at 70mph was the day that I also ended up making the mistake that could have been a lot worse.



Not really doable. All of the e-lockers that I've seen use a single wire for power, which is effectively the same as engagement - put +12VDC to the locker and it's locked; put it back to 0V and it's open (or LSD). There aren't separate control lines for power and engagement.



A front LSD won't necessarily compensate for what the rear LSD is doing. Bear in mind that (assuming you're driving forward), the surface that's making the rear squirrelly is going to pass under the front first. The front will respond in its own way, followed by the rear when it reaches that same surface.

The front may exhibit no noticeable reaction, improved control, or worsened control; we can't say, because without one in there to compare against there's no empirical data to go by. Additionally, how the rear would react in combination with an LSD in the front is unknown at this time.



I hear you re: air lockers. I'm not a huge fan of them for two reasons, neither of which have to do with the locker mechanisms themselves:

1) They require finding somewhere to place an air compressor, which needs to be electrically-powered anyway. The potential of getting OBA out of the deal is nice (assuming the right compressor is specced), but it still needs to be installed somewhere. Given that free space is at a premium in the KJ, that may not be as simple to find as may be hoped for.

2) Breaking an air line on the trail sucks - I've seen it happen. Unless you've got everything needed to repair that crack, split, or break in the line, you're pretty well screwed for re-engaging that thing once air pressure is gone. At least with an e-locker you have the possibility of using anything conductive you can lay your hands on to get it locked again.

Regarding options for the C8.25: also take a look at Ox Lockers. They're typically manually cable-operated but with the option of pneumatic or electric activation.

_________________
2005 KJ CRD Limited 4x4:
245/75R16 BFG TA KO2s
OME / Clevis 2.5" Lift
JBA Lifted A-Arms
IRO WJ Short Rear UCA/WWDiesel mount
Skid Row Skidplates
HDS Model 001 Thermostat (190°F)
Suncoast TC
Full Weeks Kit
Bosch 5V glow plugs
Hayden 2986 fan clutch / GM 11-blade fan
Samco / Sasquatch Intake Hoses
Carter in-tank pump
Provent 200
V6 Airbox

So gave this some more thought. Locked differential: with one tire in the air and the other on an obstacle, you wouldn't spin the air/non traction tire any more than the other tire can rotate over (i.e. climb over) the obstacle. Which, assuming the other tire is slowly crawling over the obstacle in a controlled fashion, means the air tire is only slightly rotating (in perfect alignment with the obstacle wheel) until it comes down and both tires get traction again - basically no/very little 'shock' load to the diff. With open diff: tire hits obstacle, power is transferred to the air/non traction tire and it spins hard. To overcome the obstacle you compensate with throttle to get the rear to push the tire over the obstacle. When finally clearing the obstacle, air tire finds traction again (ie. sudden grip and stop of the non obstacle tire) and differential transfers power back/forth between axles.

In that situation, I can see why locked diffs offer better load balancing - it prevents the casing from hard torquing inside the housing (if you wheel it smartly). That said, with enough force I'd bet a D30a with locker will crack too, no problem.



So why couldn't you run two basic switches in series? The first is your 'normal' toggle button, which (instead of turning on the e-locker) only energizes the second toggle button. That one then energizes the e-locker. Basically you'd just chain the 12v power from: 12v supply>safety switch>switch>e-locker vs. 12v supply>switch>e-locker. Basically, it just adds a second locker button to the equation and in my mind prevents you from accidentally triggering it while at speed. I/my family is way too clumsy to keep from something hitting a button anywhere remotely accessible. Though... I have seen some toyota factory G80 switches that require you to push in and then turn. That's probably the best, but I have no idea how to mount or wire that up to a basic power supply.

Ox lockers are very spendy by comparison to even ARB and Eaton. I was JUST about to pull the trigger on a rear locker until I found out that eaton doesn't offer a rear. So, in that case I might just rebuild the trac lok and call it a day (and always wonder what-if).

That's essentially correct. There will always be a momentary difference in side-to-side rotational speed when the 'air' wheel hits the ground, but it will be less than with an open axle. However, it will not be negligible and still needs to be factored in, though not necessarily to the same extent.

But remember that we're only talking about shock loadings in this instance, not constant ones - and that we're discussing this in relation to an aluminium housing, not iron. There's still constant loading (stress) on the housing when the wheels are turning, and while a shock loading is where you're most likely going to see failure, all of this plays into the possibility of failure.

One other thing to consider: stress on the CV joints. I'm not knowledgeable enough re: the KJ's tolerances in that regard to comment extensively, but the power from the diff is also going through the CVs, which are being subjected to wheel stresses as well. This isn't the rabbit hole I'd like to go down right now, but keep it in mind as another link in the chain.



Yep. More:



Don't think of it as load balancing as such - it's more like load distribution as the rotational forces are the same, just directed differently. I understand how it could be perceived as load balancing, but as there's no interleaving of stress loading and relief (just load forces sent in one direction or two) between both sides, load balancing is a somewhat misleading term IMHO.



Ah, OK, I see what you're aiming for now. Somehow I think I was picturing it differently. Yep, that would work. The only consideration I can think of is that you'd have to find somewhere to mount two switches rather than one, but if you can find the acreage there's no reason I can see why that shouldn't be doable.



Not familiar with those switches, but, taking a guess: when the switch is popped out, the +12VDC feed to it is completely broken. When pushed in and rotated, contacts rotate into place that pass +12VDC on to whichever output pin goes to the device controlled by the switch. This actually sounds remarkably similar to how the ignition switch on our riding mower works.

Caveat: if this switch is in a vehicle new enough to have a BCM, all that may go out the window since the BCM may just look for the switch to make contact when rotated, then handle the actual control of the device in question. I mention this because it means that the switch may not be rated for the amperage necessary to drive that device directly, so scavenging & reusing one in a KJ may be an electrical fire waiting to happen.



Agreed. Having said that, while I've never run them myself the people I've spoken to who have run them have been very happy with them. Still, the cost is a difficult pill to swallow.



Depending on how squirrelly it is on-road and how hard you intend to push it off-road, the rear locker may make sense. Otherwise, you have a good point regarding rebuilding the Trac-Lok.

Your call on how to proceed. Unfortunately, with the D30A up front and the C8.25 in the rear, options aren't the greatest for our vehicles.

_________________
2005 KJ CRD Limited 4x4:
245/75R16 BFG TA KO2s
OME / Clevis 2.5" Lift
JBA Lifted A-Arms
IRO WJ Short Rear UCA/WWDiesel mount
Skid Row Skidplates
HDS Model 001 Thermostat (190°F)
Suncoast TC
Full Weeks Kit
Bosch 5V glow plugs
Hayden 2986 fan clutch / GM 11-blade fan
Samco / Sasquatch Intake Hoses
Carter in-tank pump
Provent 200
V6 Airbox

May still be hope for a front locker: after doing more digging, My understanding is that most d30a failures have occurred due to the sudden shock load transfer with an open diff. But still, a questionable investment and honestly not sure I’d get as much out of it as a rear locker - I mean, most high end factory ifs 4wd don’t come with a front locker (ie fj cruiser, Tacoma trd, etc), only a back one.

And yeah the rear is pretty squirrelly in the snow/ice and makes me switch into ft 4hi before I’d like to.

Hm. But we all know the c8.25 is a safe bet so I’m going to eye an ox locker with e-actuator a little closer. I really like how they’re made: totally mechanical with a fail safe and the actuator is still mechanical via heavy cable but there’s a remotely mounted electric motor that moves the cable housing for you when you switch it on. Which means if your actuator goes bad you don’t have to open the diff up, just replace it on the outside. Ox has the same basic construction as arb, minus air. Unit cost is about 900 and then all the goodies add up to another 200.

But at 1100, this maybe a diy job to keep costs down.


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This is pretty much the exact unit I'm considering for when it comes time to do a locker. My only gripe is that it's not an LSD when it's unlocked, but, AFAIK, only the ECTEDs do that, and they aren't available for the C8.25. Something of a moot point, really, given the choices.



One other thing I like about the Ox: they have a backup plan for engagement failure in the form of the Drive Away Lock. Keep it in the Jeep; if something goes wrong with the cable or actuator, just unscrew the cable from the diff, insert the Drive Away Lock, and you have a locked or unlocked diff depending on how the lock is set. Really nice as a Plan B.



That would be a huge 'yes'.

_________________
2005 KJ CRD Limited 4x4:
245/75R16 BFG TA KO2s
OME / Clevis 2.5" Lift
JBA Lifted A-Arms
IRO WJ Short Rear UCA/WWDiesel mount
Skid Row Skidplates
HDS Model 001 Thermostat (190°F)
Suncoast TC
Full Weeks Kit
Bosch 5V glow plugs
Hayden 2986 fan clutch / GM 11-blade fan
Samco / Sasquatch Intake Hoses
Carter in-tank pump
Provent 200
V6 Airbox

I have a Eaton Trutrac for over 3 years now. It has worked well, but I take care not to abuse my vehicles. I currently have a open differential in the rear because I have not yet decided if I want a locker or a LSD.
It is invisible in 2wd for daily driving, and kicks in when needed. Let me know if you have more specific questions on it.
From my limited off road knowledge, are probably better off with a locker in the rear and more agressive tires.

_________________
Phil
2005 131k 3.7 Gasser (Lifted-CRD Springs, 4.10 Gears, F+R DTT, Teraflex 2wd Low, Skidrow/Mopar Skids, Rock Lizard Super Skinks, Goodyear Wrangler Authority 31x10.5-15)
2012 Triumph Tiger (TKC 80 Front Tire Heidnau K60 Rear, Crash Bars, Skid Plate, Bark Busters, Pelican Case Top Box)

I have a Trutrac in the rear and it works well. I'm not a rock crawler but snow bound mostly. So this is what I was waiting for, an opinion on the Trutrac in the front end. Thanks.

_________________
Purchased 2006 LIberty CRD 82K 01/16
SS Cat Back Exhaust, Full EGR Delete,Provent, Michelin 245/70 R16 AT/2
Stock Tune, Serpentine Belt Service,160 Amp Alternator
10/17 96K, New Head, Injectors, ARP Studs, HDS T-Stat
04/18 99K, New Reman Trans
09/18 104K, Lift Pump
01/19 106K, OME Lift, Eaton TruTrac LSD in new rebuilt diff

A couple questions: did you have to remove the entire diff to install the tt carrier housing? Any steering feedback when in 4hi? And do you have the select trac transfer case? If so, how’s the manners when driving through snow at hwy speeds?


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Great questions, bumping this thread.

_________________
Purchased 2006 LIberty CRD 82K 01/16
SS Cat Back Exhaust, Full EGR Delete,Provent, Michelin 245/70 R16 AT/2
Stock Tune, Serpentine Belt Service,160 Amp Alternator
10/17 96K, New Head, Injectors, ARP Studs, HDS T-Stat
04/18 99K, New Reman Trans
09/18 104K, Lift Pump
01/19 106K, OME Lift, Eaton TruTrac LSD in new rebuilt diff

I brought the entire front diff assembly to my local off-road shop to have them install the trutrac. Then I reinstalled it afterwards. It saved me money from having them pull it from the Jeep.
Very little, almost no feed back, unless the trutrac is working, then you can feel it pull on the steering wheel.
I have used it in my CRD, with the np242 transfer case, in full-time and it handles great.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

_________________
Phil
2005 131k 3.7 Gasser (Lifted-CRD Springs, 4.10 Gears, F+R DTT, Teraflex 2wd Low, Skidrow/Mopar Skids, Rock Lizard Super Skinks, Goodyear Wrangler Authority 31x10.5-15)
2012 Triumph Tiger (TKC 80 Front Tire Heidnau K60 Rear, Crash Bars, Skid Plate, Bark Busters, Pelican Case Top Box)

So was it necessary to remove the entire diff or was that just for convenience?

I ask because I’m a bit confused on how necessary it is to remove the entire front diff - the factory service manual implies it can be done with the diff supported and brackets removed, but... physically it looks pretty tight for a carrier to be moved in/out since the diff cover is close (6”?) to the steering rack.


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I do not know if I was necessary to remove it, but that is what I did.
After you remove the 2 half shafts, and the front cover/mount, there are only the 2 other mounting bolts, 6 bolts for the front drive shaft, and the vent holding it in place.
It may be easier to work on it on a bench too, I was able to remove/install it myself with just a floor jack and some precarious balancing.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

_________________
Phil
2005 131k 3.7 Gasser (Lifted-CRD Springs, 4.10 Gears, F+R DTT, Teraflex 2wd Low, Skidrow/Mopar Skids, Rock Lizard Super Skinks, Goodyear Wrangler Authority 31x10.5-15)
2012 Triumph Tiger (TKC 80 Front Tire Heidnau K60 Rear, Crash Bars, Skid Plate, Bark Busters, Pelican Case Top Box)

Well... I weighed everything and decided against the front locker in favor of a rear locker. It’s the stronger of the two axles and a good starting place for traction upgrades. The ox locker was the only electronic switch activated option for the rear axle (arb was the other option) so I went that way even though I’d be nice to have on board air. The venerable c8.25” should handle an ox locker easily and it’s easier to install and find parts for.

FYI from what I can tell the ox installation kit is unnecessary and ox locker uses stock carrier bearings so just buy them separately and save a few bucks. Also ox direct has free shipping and tax so you’ll save a few bucks there too.

I’ll give some sort of write up when I get it


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I'm a little late to weigh in on this thread....

I ran a Powertrax No-Slip in the front of the KJ for ~50,000km. You can't tell its there in 2wd at all. In 4wd, its both tires, all the time... until you let off the gas or push in the clutch. No breakages to report. Very manageable on a snowy highway at 50mph. I've run lunchbox lockers (front and rear) in other vehicles for many years.... really impressed with the No-Slip's manners over a simple Lockright.

A couple of situations these lockers leave something to be desired:
- auto trans - the constant input torque doesn't let a locker unload or 'coast'. Acts like a spool most of the time.
- AWD tcase mode - (NP242) its open diff, combined with the 1/4-turn or so it takes to lock up, may be hard on the tcase. You feel it on every shift on a manual. May not be perceptible with an auto.

Still running the factory trac-lok in the rear. Unlikely to change that unless it has a major diff failure.

_________________
Hers: 2005 KJ, V6/6spd/NV242J/3.73/posi, 2" Teraflex, ¾" cradle drop, KK forks, 22½" hub-to-flare, RRO arms, 245/75R16s, 260,000km
Mine: 1993 W250, Cummins/5spd/NP205/3.54, Lockright, ~3" lift, 315/75R16 Duratracs, extra smoke, more noise, 374,000km

^Good info.

I got the ox locker kit the other day, and it is very high quality. The carrier came pre-assembled, the instructions were well written for DIY installation, and the cover is very robust. I had a local shop physically install the locker and I'll wire it up the switches (parallel rocker switches) and install the activator. On the C8.25, it did require some clearancing on the housing side, but it was minor. I think I spent about $20 for the timken USA made carrier bearings from RA, $40 for axles seals/bearings, and about $45 for redline diff fluid. Other than that, it was just labor. So all-in-all, about 1500 installed.
After this expense, I think my traction modifiers for the KJ are over... minus repairing whatever damage may occur to the front diff.

I also got the trac lok carrier rebuilt, and is now for sale... I'll give whoever is interested a good deal.