05 Liberty CRD no crank

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:32 pm

The ECM's are NOT interchangeable between vehicles of the same year or different years due to stored SKIM and VIN information stored in the ECM.
You could be simply dealing with a bad ground? A 12v test light or multimeter can test for good grounds everywhere. Make sure the engine block is grounded to the chassis good and that the ECM is grounded good first.

rainforrestguy · **Joined:** Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:43 pm **Posts:** 20

Thanks wwdiesel I'll continue looking for a bad ground, are you thinking that the ECM may still be good? Is there a way to check it? Any suggestions on a rebuilt/ refurbished plug and play ECM?

flash7210 · **Posted:** Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:36 am

Put the key in the ignition and turn it on. Don’t try to start yet.
You should see a red dot light up and then go out.
If the red dot does not go out, there is a problem with the security key system.

To verify fuel supply, crack open one of the injector lines. The one at the front of the rail is probably the easiest.
Crank the engine, then check to see if any fuel dripped out.

rainforrestguy · **Joined:** Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:43 pm **Posts:** 20

Red light goes out and have fuel at the injectors, still trying to trace down a bad ground, no luck so far

Billybob · **Posted:** Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:55 am

rainforrestguy wrote:

So,after doing a lot of wire tracing I've come to somewhat of a solution, the start motor relay circuit from the ECM was not energizing, I installed a t-splice with a 2ft. pigtail into the dark green/orange wire coming from the ECM and and going to the starter relay, touched the pig tail to earth/ground while holding the key in the start position and I got the engine to crank up beautifully only problem my Libby won't start. I'm totally lost as to what the problem could be other than a bad ECM and have no idea how to check the ECM, does anyone have a test that I can perform? I do happen to also own a 2006 Liberty limited that runs perfectly and I have thought about switching the ECM's to see if my 05 would fire up, the problem is the ECM's have different part numbers and I'm afraid that I may also kill the ECM from my 06. The 05 ECM's part # is P56044 562CC with the GDE eco tune and the 06 ECM's part number is P6044 776BA with no tunes installed, is it possible to put the 06 ECM into the 05 just to check if it will fire up without harming the ECM?

Have you tried putting the Jeep in Neutral as well as Park?
I suspect...as TKB4 stated....that the problem is somewhere in the Transmission wiring that is stopping the ECM from allowing the Starter Relay to activate....try disconnect some plugs on the transmission to see if the engine will turn over via the ignition switch.

You are not really proving anything really by touching Dark Green/Orange wire to ground.

This is only doing what the ECM is trying to do if all conditions to start the Jeep are met by the ECM.

The CRDs basicaly need the ASD Relay to be energized to enable the engine to fire and run....with some other other conditions that are pretty much secret or else anybody could hot-wire the Jeep to steal it.

So we need to see if the ASD Relay is not energizing....check for power over the ASD Relay coil.
The ASD Relay needs ignition to be ON and the SKEES anti-theft system to be happy.

First remove the ASD Relay and jumper female pins 30 to 87 and see if the Jeep will turn over and start when you turn ignition to Start.
It probably will turn over but not start.

Go to Page 8W-30-25 and check the pins shown there on the ECM namely C2 pins 5, 1 and 3 all have +12 volts on them while pin 44 has ground under normal conditions ie. with ASD Relay back in place.
If not then connectors C117 and C105 may need re-plugging or a fuse may be blown.

The best way to measure these wires is to strap a pin/needle to your meter leads and piece the insulation on the relevant color wires.

The ECM may be missing a ground. Look at Page 8w-80-62 for the pinouts of Connector C2 on the ECM.
Pins 2, 4 and 6 all have Black/Dark Green wires going to them.

With ignition OFF check with a meter on OHMs setting that these wires are going direct to chassis/engine/negative battery lead and check if the metal cover of the ECM likewise goes to ground. Check that these wires show +12 volts with respect to Red Battery lead.

Check the ECM is getting +12 volts on C2 pins 1,3 and 5 with ignition ON....these come from the Fused ASD Relay Output. This is on page 8w-80-62 so you can see the wire colors.

Try these actions and get back to us here. :wink:

Billybob · **Posted:** Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:15 am

rainforrestguy wrote:

Thanks wwdiesel I'll continue looking for a bad ground, are you thinking that the ECM may still be good? Is there a way to check it? Any suggestions on a rebuilt/ refurbished plug and play ECM?

You would need to get a Breaker Yard 2005 ECM, with the SKIM module at the top of the steering column from the same vehicle and with the ignition keys from the same vehicle to get the Jeep to start and run! :shock:

rainforrestguy · **Joined:** Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:43 pm **Posts:** 20

Finally got her running, but not the right way, still have to use the pigtail on the dark green/orange starter relay to ground for it to crank and had to install a ground wire from the ECM case to a ground on the fire wall for her to start up and run. Not getting a signal from the transmission solenoid pack to the ECM, so, I'm thinking not only do I have a bad ECM but also a bad transmission solenoid pack. I am presently in Costa Rica where parts aren't readily available so I'll have to order everything from the states which means my Libby will be down for at least another month, in the meantime I will continue testing to see if I missed something. Any suggestions would be appreciated!!!!!!!

layback40 · **Posted:** Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:03 pm

rainforrestguy wrote:

Finally got her running, but not the right way, still have to use the pigtail on the dark green/orange starter relay to ground for it to crank and had to install a ground wire from the ECM case to a ground on the fire wall for her to start up and run. Not getting a signal from the transmission solenoid pack to the ECM, so, I'm thinking not only do I have a bad ECM but also a bad transmission solenoid pack. I am presently in Costa Rica where parts aren't readily available so I'll have to order everything from the states which means my Libby will be down for at least another month, in the meantime I will continue testing to see if I missed something. Any suggestions would be appreciated!!!!!!!

Have a close look at the plugs at the trans. Sometimes there is an issue with one of the pins. IIRC #5 on the large one. It does sound like many bad earths & other connectors. Does it change gear ok? If it was the solenoid pack you would expect strange gear changes & codes. Trans temp high or intermittent signal is common with bad pins.
Good Luck!

rainforrestguy · **Joined:** Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:43 pm **Posts:** 20

layback40, haven't taken her out for a test drive, haven't even put it in gear since it started up, I'm concerned doing so will affect the programing on the TCM and then I'll be in another world of hurt trying to figure out how to reprogram it. I've unplugged all the sensors on the tranny and gave the male and female ends a good dose of electrical contact cleaner and plan to continue trying to figure this rascal out for now. Don't know why I'm having these issues out of the blue, but with everyone's help on this forum we're bound to figure it out eventually.

Billybob · **Posted:** Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:01 pm

rainforrestguy wrote:

Finally got her running, but not the right way, still have to use the pigtail on the dark green/orange starter relay to ground for it to crank and had to install a ground wire from the ECM case to a ground on the fire wall for her to start up and run. Not getting a signal from the transmission solenoid pack to the ECM, so, I'm thinking not only do I have a bad ECM but also a bad transmission solenoid pack. I am presently in Costa Rica where parts aren't readily available so I'll have to order everything from the states which means my Libby will be down for at least another month, in the meantime I will continue testing to see if I missed something. Any suggestions would be appreciated!!!!!!!

Weird how the ECM seems to need the metal case to be grounded...I have not found this in any of the Jeep KJ documentation but I picked this up years ago when I had a problem on my Export 2002 CRD which I fixed by grounding the ECM case! :shock:

Try Breaker yards and see if you can get a ECM, SKIMM Module and keys from the same scrapped CRD. :wink:

rainforrestguy · **Joined:** Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:43 pm **Posts:** 20

Oh NOoooo! I should have gone with my gut, it kept telling me something wasn't right, I shouldn't have to add a ground to the starter control relay to get my Libby to run but I did and it runs, but I wasn't getting any signals from my solenoid pack, humm :?:

so I drained all my transmission fluid this morning removed the valve body and did a physical inspection on the solenoid pack ( thinking that maybe when I dropped the tranny to re-route the wiring I may have caused something to become loose) everything seemed to be intact so I re-installed the valve body did a filter change and put in new fluid ran it through the gears before starting my Libby....good, now my reverse lights are coming on (they weren't before). I started her up drove forward off my ramps and around to the front of my house and parked so I could go back to my work area to clean it up. Ate lunch and decided to take a test drive, started her up ( I put a switch in for ground to the starter relay), put my Libby in reverse and it went forward WHAT? Now I have no neutral or reverse, every gear with the exception of "park" only goes forward. That's where I am now, as the saying goes here "PURA VIDA" . ANY SUGGESTIONS!!!

flash7210 · **Posted:** Fri Sep 18, 2020 8:18 pm

It’s the mechanical linkage on the valve body.
It’s off by one or two notches.

rainforrestguy · **Joined:** Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:43 pm **Posts:** 20

I am thinking the same thing, gonna open her back up tomorrow and check. Thanks

rainforrestguy · **Joined:** Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:43 pm **Posts:** 20

Yup, linkage was off on the valve body, back on the road with the minor flaw of having to ground the starter relay in order for her to crank and run. Gonna continue and try to figure out why, but as of this writing she's on the road and I'm smiling....Thanks to everyone for all the help, if someone reads my post and has a solution to the grounding thing PLEASE let me know! ADIOS and PURA VIDA!!!!!!!!!

Billybob · **Posted:** Tue Sep 22, 2020 11:13 am

rainforrestguy wrote:

Yup, linkage was off on the valve body, back on the road with the minor flaw of having to ground the starter relay in order for her to crank and run. Gonna continue and try to figure out why, but as of this writing she's on the road and I'm smiling....Thanks to everyone for all the help, if someone reads my post and has a solution to the grounding thing PLEASE let me know! ADIOS and PURA VIDA!!!!!!!!!

Probably a broken wire somewhere....will look through the wiring diagrams and see if I can find some inspiration!!! :wink:

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:42 pm

rainforrestguy wrote:

Yup, linkage was off on the valve body, back on the road with the minor flaw of having to ground the starter relay in order for her to crank and run. Gonna continue and try to figure out why, but as of this writing she's on the road and I'm smiling....Thanks to everyone for all the help, if someone reads my post and has a solution to the grounding thing PLEASE let me know! ADIOS and PURA VIDA!!!!!!!!!

Looking at the FSM's on both the 05 & 06, (they show basically the same for the starter circuit) I see the following:
The wire that provides a ground to terminal 85 at the starter relay is a DarkGreen/Orange wire that runs from the Engine Control Module (ECM) to the starter relay in the Power Distribution Panel in front of the battery according to the wiring diagram.
It terminates at position/pin 58 in the C2 connector at the ECM

According to the *FSM, the ECM is looking for signals from the following and must be satisfied before it will provide a ground to the starter relay.
1. Transmission Control Module, Gear shifter in Park or Neutral.
2. Secondary Brake Pedal Switch, brake pedal must be depressed
3. Clutch Pedal must be depressed (if it is a straight shift vehicle)
4. It also shows a Transfer Case Position Sensor input to ECM, not sure how that plays into the starter circuit or if it even does as it is not clear in the FSM.

*There may be some other inputs that the ECM is looking at, but without a Logic Diagram, it is hard to say for sure just looking at the wiring diagrams in the FSM.

Hope this helps,
:SOMBRERO:

rainforrestguy · **Joined:** Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:43 pm **Posts:** 20

Great info. I'm outta town right now but I'll let you know what the scoop is once I trace it through.

Billybob · **Posted:** Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:32 am

WWDiesel wrote:

rainforrestguy wrote:

Yup, linkage was off on the valve body, back on the road with the minor flaw of having to ground the starter relay in order for her to crank and run. Gonna continue and try to figure out why, but as of this writing she's on the road and I'm smiling....Thanks to everyone for all the help, if someone reads my post and has a solution to the grounding thing PLEASE let me know! ADIOS and PURA VIDA!!!!!!!!!

Looking at the FSM's on both the 05 & 06, (they show basically the same for the starter circuit) I see the following:
The wire that provides a ground to terminal 85 at the starter relay is a DarkGreen/Orange wire that runs from the Engine Control Module (ECM) to the starter relay in the Power Distribution Panel in front of the battery according to the wiring diagram.
It terminates at position/pin 58 in the C2 connector at the ECM

According to the *FSM, the ECM is looking for signals from the following and must be satisfied before it will provide a ground to the starter relay.
1. Transmission Control Module, Gear shifter in Park or Neutral.
2. Secondary Brake Pedal Switch, brake pedal must be depressed
3. Clutch Pedal must be depressed (if it is a straight shift vehicle)
4. It also shows a Transfer Case Position Sensor input to ECM, not sure how that plays into the starter circuit or if it even does as it is not clear in the FSM.

*There may be some other inputs that the ECM is looking at, but without a Logic Diagram, it is hard to say for sure just looking at the wiring diagrams in the FSM.

Hope this helps,
:SOMBRERO:

OK going backwards from the 4 needed inputs to the ECM:

4: Brown/White wire on ECM C1 pin# 82 should switch between Ground And Open when the Transfer
is operated....Dark Blue/Dark Green wire on ECM C1 pin#65 supplies this ground. Check operating
the Transfer case switches ground ON/OFF on Pin #82.

3: Not applicable..this is an automatic.

2: Secondary Brake Pedal Switch: Dark Green/White wire on ECM C2 pin#34 should switch from Ground
to open when brake is depressed.

1: Still working on it. :wink:

OP must switch OFF his Jumper-to-ground when he makes these measurements!

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Wed Sep 23, 2020 1:28 pm

Billy, any idea as to how the transfer case switch plays into the starting logic?
Would this switch prevent the starter relay from functioning if the transfer case lever is in a certain position like low range or neutral?
I understand why they are looking for Park or Neutral position on transmission shifter, but I fail to understand why they care about what position the transfer case lever is in.

Guess I need to test this later today on mine.

Billybob wrote:

4: Brown/White wire on ECM C1 pin# 82 should switch between Ground And Open when the Transfer
is operated....Dark Blue/Dark Green wire on ECM C1 pin#65 supplies this ground. Check operating
the Transfer case switches ground ON/OFF on Pin #82.

Billybob · **Posted:** Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:16 am

WWDiesel wrote:

Billy, any idea as to how the transfer case switch plays into the starting logic?
Would this switch prevent the starter relay from functioning if the transfer case lever is in a certain position like low range or neutral?
I understand why they are looking for Park or Neutral position on transmission shifter, but I fail to understand why they care about what position the transfer case lever is in.

Guess I need to test this later today on mine.

Billybob wrote:

4: Brown/White wire on ECM C1 pin# 82 should switch between Ground And Open when the Transfer
is operated....Dark Blue/Dark Green wire on ECM C1 pin#65 supplies this ground. Check operating
the Transfer case switches ground ON/OFF on Pin #82.

My quick answer to this is that I know with my 2002 Export CRD 5 speed Manual with the Command Trac if I put it into into LOW 4 wheel drive I can start the engine without having to depress the clutch. Also supposed to increase the engine power to help scramble out of a tricky situation! :roll:

In other words the Clutch Interlock Switch is over-ridden so that if I am stalled on a steep incline or decline I can start the engine and it will lurch off with extra power!

I do not know how this works on an Auto with Selec Trac but maybe that is what this is all about!

05 Liberty CRD no crank

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