Post your CRD oil analysis

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

No background in UOA. Just lots of time looking at oil sites, (Bobs), the long term UOA on the Chevy using extended oil changes with both Mobil 1 and Amsoil for over a year, TDI club with analsys of their diesel results and the average wear data provided by Blackstone on quite a few posted UOA's. Don't see many historical CRD UOA's yet, but compare the 3 on this site and look at the Fe, Cr and Al differences. The first 2 are high in silicon, as would be expected on new engines, but the Fe on this one is much higher than the 2 posted on the previous CRD engines. From what Blackstone and one very good explanation I read over a year ago on Fred's TDI club, the iron, Al and Cr are cylinder, piston and ring wear. Lead, tin is a component of rod and crank bearings but these looked in range in comparison.

I would be really interested to see what this latest posters Fe wear rates drop to on his 2nd UOA. When I say its the worst I've seen, I'm referring to the Fe wear. While its not a problem, it is several times higher than the other 2. I'm not referring to antifreeze or other problems sometimes found. Just very high iron wear. While Blackstone said it's probably due to break in, you have to wonder why the difference between the first CRD post here, the 2nd and the 3rd on iron.

1st post with 2 UOA Iron levels 35 and 24
2nd post with 1 UOA Iron level 83
3rd post with 1 UOA Iron level 248

The 3rd one is 6 time higher wear rate than the 1st and 3 times higher than yours. While the 3rd has twice the miles on the oil as the first, the iron wear rate seems really high in comparison. Also noted that the Si level in the 1st post was 40, higher than the 3rd post Si level of 36, with much higher iron wear rates.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:43 am

The Si on Mobil 1 0W-40 in my Magnum at 19,800 miles was a whopping 9 and the Fe and others were way lower then these, I just wished I had keep one of my VW UOA test to show the difference it had compared to these CRD's. Our CRD is currently on it's second oil change (Mobil 1 T&SUV 5w-40) and when it gets close to the 6k mile point on the oil I will send a sample in for testing before I change the oil to see if it really needs changing.

Zonie · **Posted:** Mon Jul 03, 2006 3:20 pm

Please post the process for oil testing and the contact information.

KJbob · **Posted:** Mon Jul 03, 2006 3:24 pm

Here's my first oil analysis. I dumped the factory fill at about 5,000 miles; put in Mobil1 0w-40. At approximately 10,000 miles changed the oil again and put in Amsoil European 5w-40. Here's my analysis running Amsoil:

Miles on oil: 5200
Miles on engine: 15100
Oil Filter: Amsoil Ea034
Air Filter: Mopar OEM
Oil added: none

Aluminum: 17
Chromium: 5
Iron: 49
Copper: 5
Lead: 1
Tin: 0
Molybdenum: 6
Nickel: 1
Manganese: (not on report)
Potassium: 0
Boron: 58
Silicon: 18
Calcium: 1908
Magnesium: 14
Phosphorus: 825
Zinc: 841
Barium: 0
Silver 0
Sodium 0

SUS Visc @ 100 C ... 12.55
TBN 5.02

Soot 1.6
Oxidation 9.0
Nitration 13.0

Oil Analyzers, Inc. say the oil is suitable for continued use and to resample at next regular interval.

My plan is to sample again in about 5,000 miles (oil will have 10k on it and engine will have 20k).

Any comments?

oldnavy · **Posted:** Mon Jul 03, 2006 3:44 pm

KJbob wrote:

Here's my first oil analysis. I dumped the factory fill at about 5,000 miles; put in Mobil1 0w-40. At approximately 10,000 miles changed the oil again and put in Amsoil European 5w-40. Here's my analysis running Amsoil:

Miles on oil: 5200
Miles on engine: 15100
Oil Filter: Amsoil Ea034
Air Filter: Mopar OEM
Oil added: none

Aluminum: 17
Chromium: 5
Iron: 49
Copper: 5
Lead: 1
Tin: 0
Molybdenum: 6
Nickel: 1
Manganese: (not on report)
Potassium: 0
Boron: 58
Silicon: 18
Calcium: 1908
Magnesium: 14
Phosphorus: 825
Zinc: 841
Barium: 0
Silver 0
Sodium 0

SUS Visc @ 100 C ... 12.55
TBN 5.02

Soot 1.6
Oxidation 9.0
Nitration 13.0

Oil Analyzers, Inc. say the oil is suitable for continued use and to resample at next regular interval.

My plan is to sample again in about 5,000 miles (oil will have 10k on it and engine will have 20k).

Any comments?

Your Iron seems a bit high but not really out of line with this new of vehicle, the Si seems a tad high also, but nothing major. You might have had a small leak for awhile, such as can happen when taking off this airbox top then reinstall and it full seats after engine is running for awhile or you take it back off and when you reinstalled it was fully sealed, been there done that on this rig. I would not have a problem with running the oil for the 10k miles.

Edited for following comment: Not bad comments from a Mobil 1 fan!!!

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

When I changed the factory fill at 5K, it felt pretty gritty. I have since done 3 more at 5K intervals, using Mobil 1 5W-40 CI4 diesel rated oil (I was going to try a 10K interval but decided to wait until at least 25K and some more break-in time has passed). None of the Mobil 1 changes ever felt that gritty. This is pretty subjective, but I will be doing a UOA at 25K, just to see how the break-in process is coming. As the saying goes, If I had known then what I know now, from seeing these CRD UOA's, I would have changed the first oil at 1K.

Blackstone labs can provide the process for doing a UOA. OldNavy posted another site that is less expensive earlier on this site.

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/diesel_engines.html

oldnavy · **Posted:** Mon Jul 03, 2006 4:18 pm

AutoZone has just signed with Exxon-Mobil to sell Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40 (API CI-4 PLUS/CI-4/CH-4/CG-4/CF-4/CF/SL/SJ) in it's stores and should be available by August in all stores nationwide. They are currently negotiating with Wal-Mart to carry the oil nationwide in their chain. This oil is currenty available at Mobil retailers and jobbers such as AVLube. AVLubes is also another place for UOA, not sure but they may be cheaper then Blackstone.

KJbob · **Posted:** Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:18 pm

oldnavy wrote:

Edited for following comment: Not bad comments from a Mobil 1 fan!!!

Thanks for you input. Y'know I'm curious to see how Mobil1's Turbo Diesel 5w-40 (aka Delvac 1) compare. I think the Amsoil European 5w-40 can go 10,000 miles without much of a problem; I'm thinking (without any substantive proof) that Mobil 1 could last longer.

I just might have to give it a try. :wink:

Goglio704 · **Posted:** Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:43 pm

oldnavy wrote:

AutoZone has just signed with Exxon-Mobil to sell Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40 (API CI-4 PLUS/CI-4/CH-4/CG-4/CF-4/CF/SL/SJ) in it's stores and should be available by August in all stores nationwide. They are currently negotiating with Wal-Mart to carry the oil nationwide in their chain. This oil is currenty available at Mobil retailers and jobbers such as AVLube. AVLubes is also another place for UOA, not sure but they may be cheaper then Blackstone.

That is good news on the availability of the oil. I don't like having to special order oil, but I will if I have to.

CATCRD · **Posted:** Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:56 pm

oldnavy wrote:

AutoZone has just signed with Exxon-Mobil to sell Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40 (API CI-4 PLUS/CI-4/CH-4/CG-4/CF-4/CF/SL/SJ) in it's stores and should be available by August in all stores nationwide. They are currently negotiating with Wal-Mart to carry the oil nationwide in their chain.

Thank goodness. I've been waiting to do my next change and add the Fumoto valve until this oil is available.

miraCRD · **Posted:** Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:06 pm

oldnavy wrote:

AutoZone has just signed with Exxon-Mobil to sell Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40 (API CI-4 PLUS/CI-4/CH-4/CG-4/CF-4/CF/SL/SJ) in it's stores and should be available by August in all stores nationwide.

Thanks for this excellent news oldnavy!!! I've been looking for this stuff everywhere since the Truck & SUV Mobil 1 supply started to dissappear. How did you happen to find out about this?

oldnavy · **Posted:** Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:23 pm

miraCRD wrote:

oldnavy wrote:

AutoZone has just signed with Exxon-Mobil to sell Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40 (API CI-4 PLUS/CI-4/CH-4/CG-4/CF-4/CF/SL/SJ) in it's stores and should be available by August in all stores nationwide.

Thanks for this excellent news oldnavy!!! I've been looking for this stuff everywhere since the Truck & SUV Mobil 1 supply started to dissappear. How did you happen to find out about this?

I just called them and ask when and where and BS'ed with the guy for a few minutes. He said once the Wally-World contract was announced the rest would probably follow shortly, they just have to nail down the two largest accounts first was the implication.

onthehunt · **Posted:** Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:31 pm

Zonie · **Posted:** Sun Aug 13, 2006 9:28 pm

My first test results: (I'm a happy camper!)

Miles on unit-5600
Miles on oil- 5000

Aluminum-10
Chromium-3
Iron-56
Copper-3
Lead-3
Tin-2
Moly-4
Nickel-1
Maganese-2
Silver-0
Titanium-0
Potassium-3
Boron-2
Silicon-22
Sodium-4
Calcium-2829
Magnesium-9
Phosphorus-1156
Zinc-1376
Barium-0

SUS Viscosity@210F- 69.8
Flashpoint-435F
Fuel%=<.5
Antifreeze=0%
Water=0%
Insolubles=.2

Oil: Shell Rotella T 5/W40
Oil filter: Mopar
Air filter: Mopar
Oil added:zero

CATCRD · **Posted:** Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:55 pm

I've been remiss in posting my results.

Miles on oil: 3200/4200/5500/6500
Miles on engine: 3200/7400/12700/19200
Oil Filter: Mopar
Air Filter: Mopar
Oil added: 1/2 quart

Aluminum: 13/7/11/12
Chromium: 4/2/3
Iron: 35/24/36/48
Copper: 7/2/5/8
Lead: 5/3/7/5
Tin: 4/2/3/1
Molybdenum: 1/3/2/4
Nickel: 1/0/1/1
Manganese: 6/1/1/1
Potassium: 5/2/0/0
Boron: 5/2/2/1
Silicon: 40/9/11/14
Calcium: 1793/2837/3109/3361
Magnesium: 39/19/25/12
Phosphorus: 1159/1079/1147/1188
Zinc: 1380/1161/1371//1321
Barium: 1/0/0/0/
(All other values: 0)

SUS Visc @ 210: 66.9/71.7/74.6/76.8
Flashpoint: 400/440/420/425
Fuel %: <0.5
Insolubles %: 0.5
TBN: na/na/7.3/7.9

Notables in the last two were the high remaining TBN, and in the last one the viscosity went slightly out of range high for a 40 weight. Based on the pretty positive results I would feel comfortable going out to 10k miles and not doing another analysis, especially keeping soot out with the ORM which I've been running since the last oil change.

onthehunt · **Posted:** Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:10 pm

CATCRD · **Posted:** Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:00 am

Sorry, Rotella 5W-40 syn each time except the initial factory fill.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Miles on oil: 7100
Miles on engine: 27,100
Oil Brand: Mobile 1 5W-40 TDT CI4 synthetic
Oil Filter: Mopar
Air Filter: WIX
Oil added: 1.5 quarts

* for out of spec wear or limit ranges

Aluminum: *16 Universal averages 11
Chromium: *8 Universal averages 3
Iron: *61 Universal averages 53
Copper: 4
Lead: 3
Tin: 2
Molybdenum: 6
Nickel: 1
Manganese: 1
Silver: 0
Titanium: 0
Potassium: 4
Boron: 21
Silicon: *35 Universal averages 17
Sodium: 3
Calcium: 2661
Magnesium: 328
Phosphorus: 1193
Zinc: 1354
Barium: 0

SUS Viscosity @210F: *77.3 (range 65.0 - 76.0)
Flashpoint F: 435
Fuel %: < 0.5
Water: 0
Antifreeze: 0
Insolubles: 0.5

Makeup oil brand: Shell Rotella synthetic 5W-40 (wallyworld out of Mobile 1 diesel oil)
Notes paraphrased: Excessive soot and high silicon in this sample. The soot, which caused the high viscosity can be seen in the high aluminum and chrome wear. Aluminum is from pistons and chrome is from the rings. If the silicon is from abrasive dirt getting past the air filter, it may have caused some of the high metal wear. The TBN was strong at 6.5. Universal averages are based on oil runs of 5400 miles. Suggest checking your air filter and resampling in 5000 miles.

My notes: Air getting past the air filter was ocurring. I found 2 sources - one from the airtube on the airbox going to the turbo inlet hose, was slightly flattened near the clamp and had a very small gap. The other, was on the air filter sealing edge itself. When I pulled it, the rubber sealing edge had rolled under the airbox edge on a 1.5" stretch. I had pivoted the airbox lid up while seating the locking plastic tabs - this must have pushed the sealing edge down past the airbox edge. Of course, once its on, you can't see anything. Engine performance was normal, no visible smoke or other problems noted during this oil sample, normal Interstate highway driving. No Mil lights or codes.

This oil sample was run without the orm, with egr working as designed. For the next OCI, I performed the orm, double flushed the oil and filter, and used Mobile 1 5W-40 TDT CI4 again, but used an Amsoil EaO34 oil filter on the final oil. Will be sampling again at 1K and 3K intervals to see if the soot and metal wear levels are within universal averages, which are calculated at 5400 miles from Blackstone. The high viscosity according to Blackstone, causes more upper end cylinder wear, with good low end wear, which is exactly what I see in this sample. Airbox leaks repaired.

CATCRD · **Posted:** Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:11 pm

I've also been running the ORM since the very beginning of this OCI, so it will be interesting to see the difference in viscosity change and wear. Do you know what's the cause of the 1.5 qts of makeup oil?

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

CATCRD wrote:

I've also been running the ORM since the very beginning of this OCI, so it will be interesting to see the difference in viscosity change and wear. Do you know what's the cause of the 1.5 qts of makeup oil?

Oh yes, the cause of the 1.5 quarts of makeup oil is what blew past the oem hocky puck ccv and turbo seals. I drained quite a bit from the provent drain over the last OCI. One time I went 3000 miles without draining it, and it had filled up the 18" of drain hose, up to the bottom of the Provent, and up to just below the output line. The rest of the oil I regularly clean out of the CAC hoses. Some still blows by the turbo seals. This is with exactly 6.4 quarts of oil, which brings it to about 2 mm below the MAX mark on the dipstick.

Since the ORM and last oil change, I'm monitoring oil levels closely, as well as oil in the Provent and CAC hoses. Since the ORM, I have not seen any oil in the CAC hoses, and only a little on the top of the internal filter on the Provent. But, it's only been 700 miles since the oil change. I've checked the engine/tranny mounting joints - never seen any engine oil anywhere on the sides or bottom of the engine/powertrain. I also asked the tech who replaced the TC if there was any signs of oil leakage from the rear mains - he said it was clean, no oil leakage there or on the tranny pump seal.

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