NEW TRANNY TSB ISSUED 7/14

Cowcatcher · **Posted:** Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:49 pm

I don't know the number yet, perhaps someone else can find it. It covers a new set of programming parameters and supers the old one (you don't automatically get the new one if you have had the old one done). There were 8 problems in CO that apparently occurred to generate it and there have been a couple in Spokane. Didn't apply to the CEL code that I got today though, we checked. My problem is being referred to DC and pushed me into the limp mode today, but cleared by the time I got to the dealer.

Funny thing, while I am standing there with the service writer a mechanic comes up and tells him something. He asked the mechanic what the specific problem was and the response was "Oh, that typical Liberty noisy rear brake thing." I laughed at them and told them that they weren't supposed to talk like that while a Liberty owner was standing right there. The SW asked me if mine were OK as they need to be fixed before 12k under warranty. I said no but if he would like to install some greasable ball joints.......good laugh all around. He did tell me that the ball joints are currently in short supply and are only available for warranty replacement and recalls. He said they also look at everyone that comes in the door to see if they are OK.

richardkf · **Joined:** Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:15 pm **Posts:** 167

Cowcatcher wrote:

I don't know the number yet, perhaps someone else can find it. It covers a new set of programming parameters and supers the old one (you don't automatically get the new one if you have had the old one done). There were 8 problems in CO that apparently occurred to generate it and there have been a couple in Spokane. Didn't apply to the CEL code that I got today though, we checked. My problem is being referred to DC and pushed me into the limp mode today, but cleared by the time I got to the dealer.

Funny thing, while I am standing there with the service writer a mechanic comes up and tells him something. He asked the mechanic what the specific problem was and the response was "Oh, that typical Liberty noisy rear brake thing." I laughed at them and told them that they weren't supposed to talk like that while a Liberty owner was standing right there. The SW asked me if mine were OK as they need to be fixed before 12k under warranty. I said no but if he would like to install some greasable ball joints.......good laugh all around. He did tell me that the ball joints are currently in short supply and are only available for warranty replacement and recalls. He said they also look at everyone that comes in the door to see if they are OK.

So, what were the problems that occurred in CO and Spokane?

Cowcatcher · **Posted:** Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:26 pm

Wasn't able to pin it down specifics but it sounded like they were still having TC lock up issues not resolved by the last TCM program. The new one covered a ton of foggy issues common to DC TSB " improved torque converter lock up, improved........." some of the issues had absolutely nothing to do with the tansmission so apparently the TCM goes a little beyond simply transmission control. The SW was kindof speed reading it out loud off his monitor to see if anything matched the two CELs I had received and my creeping cruise control. It did not.

RFCRD · **Posted:** Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:39 pm

Cowcatcher wrote:

Wasn't able to pin it down specifics but it sounded like they were still having TC lock up issues not resolved by the last TCM program. The new one covered a ton of foggy issues common to DC TSB " improved torque converter lock up, improved........." some of the issues had absolutely nothing to do with the tansmission so apparently the TCM goes a little beyond simply transmission control. The SW was kindof speed reading it out loud off his monitor to see if anything matched the two CELs I had received and my creeping cruise control. It did not.

You didn't by chance get the TSB numbers for this. When I met with the DC reps a few weeks ago they promised a new software update very soon to address some of the torque converter lock-up glitches. Have already been told the remaining problem I have (35 mph rough lock-up under light acceleration) is supposed to get eliminated with the new update.

Cowcatcher · **Posted:** Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:48 pm

No, sorry. He didn't read the number only read the text....fast.... and I was on the wrong side of the display to look at it. Someone here months ago was pulling them, TSBs down from DC somehow and someone else was subscribing to them through a service so I was hoping that by posting this and the issue date someone would be able to find it. Interesting that you have been able to start a dialog with them but they haven't contacted you even though they know it applies........well perhaps not :oops:

RFCRD · **Posted:** Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:58 pm

Cowcatcher wrote:

No, sorry. He didn't read the number only read the text....fast.... and I was on the wrong side of the display to look at it. Someone here months ago was pulling them, TSBs down from DC somehow and someone else was subscribing to them through a service so I was hoping that by posting this and the issue date someone would be able to find it. Interesting that you have been able to start a dialog with them but they haven't contacted you even though they know it applies........well perhaps not :oops:

I looked at alldata, wasn't on there yet. Have a feeling they might just do it as 18-009-06/18-008-06. Last two times I was in they plugged into DC's giant computer in the sky which told them I had the latest update.

RFCRD · **Posted:** Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:52 am

Showed up on alldata yesterday: TSB 18-023-06. Replaces both 18-009-06 and 18-008-06. Similar verbage, if they see the Jeep, supposed to do the repairs.

Ripster · **Posted:** Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:27 am

Printed out the TSB, covers 05 and 06, called my dealer, have it scheduled for next
Friday 1pm. If someone gets it done before then, post results here. Supposed to--- "improvement
to torque converter operation and durability, improved glow plug operation and
durability, update to security key immobilizer system operation, improved throttle
valve shutdown operation and durability, and improved diagnostics for DTC P0504
brake switch signal MIL. So we shall see, a bit of a risk, but I like the latest flash
on board as long as it does not fry anything.

richardkf · **Joined:** Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:15 pm **Posts:** 167

Ripster wrote:

Printed out the TSB, covers 05 and 06, called my dealer, have it scheduled for next
Friday 1pm. If someone gets it done before then, post results here. Supposed to--- "improvement
to torque converter operation and durability, improved glow plug operation and
durability, update to security key immobilizer system operation, improved throttle
valve shutdown operation and durability, and improved diagnostics for DTC P0504
brake switch signal MIL. So we shall see, a bit of a risk, but I like the latest flash
on board as long as it does not fry anything.

Cany anyone post the link to the new TSB 18-023-06 TC update on here, or, put it in pdf and post it here? I'd like to take it into my dealer at my next oil change and get it done.

alljeep · **Posted:** Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:14 am

View it here:

http://www.alldata.com/tsb/Chrysler/115 ... 18231.html

Specific addition to the last TSB is "Enhanced Throttle Valve Shutdown Operation." The rest of the stuff was listed before on 18-008-06 and 18-009-06. Is this the "anti-shudder valve" or is it the throttle body thing mentioned in the Popular Mechanics long term article here:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/blog/au ... 22231.html

quoted below from popular mechanics...

Okay, as promised here's what we found out from DaimlerChrysler: the regional techs replaced the entire throttle body on the Liberty's little Italian-built 2.8-liter four-cylinder turbodiesel because of either 1. the possibility of temperature swing-induced leakage at the clamping areas, or 2. possible stripped teeth on a motor-driven, spring-loaded air management valve integral with the throttle body.

And finally, since we all have been operating with apparently substandard programming, will we ever know the long term effects of such???

groucho · **Posted:** Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:45 am

alljeep: Thanks for the link. Mine is going in next week for the fabric TSB and a new CCV hose. I'll let them keep it and do this new TSB also.
I had read that throttle body item but figured it was old news here. If that is the fix for the EGR codes, DCX needs to get it out there.

I have put the issue with the (2) two differing warranties with the 06 CRD to the AG here. So, I should hear on that within a month. I just want DCX to publish the exact warranty that is in effect for the diesel. I don't think that several differing warranties will get the job done. I also sent a copy of the DCX press release stating that all diesel warranties were 5x100 for 2006, so perhaps they'll address that issue also. I want the warranty in hand. With model year 2007 here, DCX still does not allow the lookup of a warranty for 2006 models, as of yesterday.

As far as the transmission flashes, etc, doubtless there would be some longterm mechanical implications.

richardkf · **Joined:** Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:15 pm **Posts:** 167

alljeep wrote:

View it here:

http://www.alldata.com/tsb/Chrysler/115 ... 18231.html

Specific addition to the last TSB is "Enhanced Throttle Valve Shutdown Operation." The rest of the stuff was listed before on 18-008-06 and 18-009-06. Is this the "anti-shudder valve" or is it the throttle body thing mentioned in the Popular Mechanics long term article here:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/blog/au ... 22231.html

quoted below from popular mechanics...

Okay, as promised here's what we found out from DaimlerChrysler: the regional techs replaced the entire throttle body on the Liberty's little Italian-built 2.8-liter four-cylinder turbodiesel because of either 1. the possibility of temperature swing-induced leakage at the clamping areas, or 2. possible stripped teeth on a motor-driven, spring-loaded air management valve integral with the throttle body.

And finally, since we all have been operating with apparently substandard programming, will we ever know the long term effects of such???

Thanks for the post, very helpful.

Having read the long-term test of Popular Mechanics, is it likely that out of all these CRD's experiencing regular EGR failures, there is a high number of them that are actually throwing Check Engine Lights due to defective Throttle Bod Injectors? Or is the Throttle Body part a separate, less common issue?

swoughen · **Posted:** Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:58 pm

Are these TSBs supposed to (eventually?) show up in the Jeep Recall section at Jeep.com, where you put in your VIN... ?

oldnavy · **Posted:** Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:02 pm

richardkf wrote:

Okay, as promised here's what we found out from DaimlerChrysler: the regional techs replaced the entire throttle body on the Liberty's little Italian-built 2.8-liter four-cylinder turbodiesel because of either 1. the possibility of temperature swing-induced leakage at the clamping areas, or 2. possible stripped teeth on a motor-driven, spring-loaded air management valve integral with the throttle body.

No such thing as a "throttle body injector or throttle body on a diesel engine. What you are refering to is what D/C calls a EGR Flow Control Valve that is in reality a an anti run on valve and helps the engine come to a smooth stop when turned off, it does look somewhat like the Throttle Body from a gasser but it is not and does not even work the same or have same function. Mine failed early on, but I have not had a problem with the actual EGR Valve.

Temperture swing leak is someone's way of saying improperly installed valve, causing an air leak.

Jeger · **Posted:** Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:00 pm

I have never had a TSB done on the CRD. So far this is the only one I have seen that would pertain to mine anyhow. Can I go to a good dealership and request to have this done for free? More importantly, do I NEED to have this done or not?

cerich · **Posted:** Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:18 pm

with over 20K iles on my crd and having small shudder, stalling the first 8k untill I convinced them to do the filter TSB in the tranny and then at 13K the "flash", I'll live with the shudder at 35 and 55 for the next 10K or so, hopefully the TC will crap out then and I'll get a beter one. I have a 100K warranty but want this CRD to last 300 at least, as such the more work at the further along the better...

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Title says it all. No idea how long the codes been there. Since Abernathy cleared the old P0401 codes, I determined to drive it until it stopped.
It apparently is now stuck closed as there is no smoke at all now. The blue smoke subsided after a few weeks, the turbo rattle is still there, but no black smoke. I did have one incident where a light throttle rocketed me down the highway - could have been another turbo overboost, but there aren't any turbo codes set. Oil consumption has slowed to about a quart in the last 800 miles. "All is well" NTF.

There is no way I'm going back in for this new TSB anytime soon. The 18-009-06 I just had done in April took right at 2 hours hooked up to the dealer scan tool. Same verbage, with a minor change. This time, I'm waiting to see how it works out for you guys. I checked my records and this would be the third TCM flash update in a year. Too many flash updates for my comfort level. Let me know how it works out gents, especially if you have the tranny shudder and have it performed.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:38 pm

Jeger wrote:

I have never had a TSB done on the CRD. So far this is the only one I have seen that would pertain to mine anyhow. Can I go to a good dealership and request to have this done for free? More importantly, do I NEED to have this done or not?

If you are having service of some kind done, such as oil change, the TSB says it is to be done on the vehicle. (05 that is, didn't check 06) Not sure it is mandatory to have done to protect warranty later if you were to have TQ problems, the failure to have it done might lead to warranty denial.

Cowcatcher · **Posted:** Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:11 pm

swoughen wrote:

Are these TSBs supposed to (eventually?) show up in the Jeep Recall section at Jeep.com, where you put in your VIN... ?

TSB's are not recall's and they will never show up on Jeep.com. TSB's are Technical Service Bulletin's that cover lower level problem's.

In a perfect world a TSB would be there for a problem that randomly comes up on a small percentage of vehicals and the RECALL would be reserved for something more serious and one that affected many vehicals. In reality it seems that US manufactures use them (TSB's) to limit what they fix to those who complain the loudest or experience the problem all the while hoping that the majority of vehicals will survive without the falure through the warranty period. Others have stated that some of the manufactures from Japan use the TSB's internally to fix problems whenever a car shows up at the door without ever telling the consumer so they catch the problems before the failure and are able to maintain the image of higher quality product.

richardkf · **Joined:** Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:15 pm **Posts:** 167

Cowcatcher wrote:

swoughen wrote:

Are these TSBs supposed to (eventually?) show up in the Jeep Recall section at Jeep.com, where you put in your VIN... ?

TSB's are not recall's and they will never show up on Jeep.com. TSB's are Technical Service Bulletin's that cover lower level problem's.

In a perfect world a TSB would be there for a problem that randomly comes up on a small percentage of vehicals and the RECALL would be reserved for something more serious and one that affected many vehicals. In reality it seems that US manufactures use them (TSB's) to limit what they fix to those who complain the loudest or experience the problem all the while hoping that the majority of vehicals will survive without the falure through the warranty period. Others have stated that some of the manufactures from Japan use the TSB's internally to fix problems whenever a car shows up at the door without ever telling the consumer so they catch the problems before the failure and are able to maintain the image of higher quality product.

That's a very accurate description. In addition, on some cars where the TSB may apply, the car may never experience the symptoms or problems that the TSB covers. TSB's are like a database of common problems for the techs to search when diagnosing the customers car trouble. If you see how the TSB's are worded, there are lots of "customer MAY experience" "IF this occurs" ... very conditional.

Recalls are known defects that definetly will or currently do effect a known number of cars.

And yes, the Japanese companies generally will automatically perform TSB's where the "common problems" occur on a large number of their cars ... I have owned several Japanense, German and American cars and even though TSB's were out there on the Gernan and Japanese cars, I never requested they be done - they are/were always automatically done when I went in for oil changes or other maintenance.

NEW TRANNY TSB ISSUED 7/14

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