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 Post subject: Diesel Liberty fuel modules (More Power!)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 9:47 pm 
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For any of you that have a Diesel Liberty there is an article in Diesel World Magazine about 2 companies making electronic modules for the CRD diesel. The dyno numbers with a DynoMax diesel cat back exhaust were 183.3 HP and 306 ft-lb of torque for the DieselPower North America module and 183.9 hp and 310.1 ft-lb of torque with the Dr. Performance module. That is a gain of 20+hp and 40+ft-lb of torque over stock. Those are some impressive gains and the module only increases the fuel and not the turbo boost so there shouldn't be any concern about high exhaust temps and needing to put additional gages on there to monitor the EGTs and boost. With numbers like that I may consider trading in my '02 Chevy Duramax Diesel. Both programmers run just under $600 and the DynoMax exhaust will set you back about $250.


www.drperformance.com 877-338-7373 based in Texas
www.dieseltuning.com 604-8613012 based in Canada


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 10:38 pm 
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Nothing against you CB and thanks for the info, but $600 for 20 HP is stupid in my book, and far below what these companies claim...without the exhaust modifications. I was going to possibly get one but if there is a halfway scientific study done by a magazine and this is all we get...I'll pass. I am disappointed...

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 11:00 pm 
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Thats how much a set of headers cost for the gassers AZScout and people are dying to get their hands on a set of those. Some people will do anything for alittle torque... :wink:

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 11:28 pm 
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I agree that $600 is a bit high to me also. But if they are the only ones making this module then they are going to charge a lot. Based off of what I have seen and heard, not many people are interested in makeing very much stuff for the Liberty, which is really too bad. I like the look of the Libertys with the exception of the IFS and wouldn't mind getting one. So this may be the going price unless more companies get on board making engine products for the CRD. As far as the HP goes I wouldn't be real concerned about HP unless I was racing. The torque is where it is at! And a gain of 40 ft-lbs is signifigant especially since they are not increasing the turbo boost and claim that it will not increase your EGTs. Anything over about 60HP on a regular diesel truck and you need to install EGT, boost and trans temp gauges to monitor your engine. I guess my point is that you won't get those numbers out of a V-6 or I-6 with out major modifications. A lot of V-8s don't have that kind of torque. So if you have the money and want the power go get it. if not, it sounds like the CRD has some pretty good pep to it already. Personally I want more power out of my truck and I am not lacking in the power area with factory 300hp and 520ft-lb of torque without the small mods I've made coming out of my D-max. Just wish it were a little smaller. Makes me miss my old YJ :D


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 Post subject: Re: Diesel Liberty fuel modules (More Power!)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 11:32 pm 
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CB wrote:
For any of you that have a Diesel Liberty there is an article in Diesel World Magazine about 2 companies making electronic modules for the CRD diesel. The dyno numbers with a DynoMax diesel cat back exhaust were 183.3 HP and 306 ft-lb of torque for the DieselPower North America module and 183.9 hp and 310.1 ft-lb of torque with the Dr. Performance module. That is a gain of 20+hp and 40+ft-lb of torque over stock. Those are some impressive gains and the module only increases the fuel and not the turbo boost so there shouldn't be any concern about high exhaust temps and needing to put additional gages on there to monitor the EGTs and boost. With numbers like that I may consider trading in my '02 Chevy Duramax Diesel. Both programmers run just under $600 and the DynoMax exhaust will set you back about $250.


www.drperformance.com 877-338-7373 based in Texas
www.dieseltuning.com 604-8613012 based in Canada


Neither of those torque numbers show a 40+ gain...unless they are measuring at the rear wheels on a dyno or something...but I don't think that is the case since the hp gains are on par...the stock torque is 295 so the best one gains 15 torque #'s

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 Post subject: Re: Diesel Liberty fuel modules (More Power!)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 11:41 pm 
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CB wrote:
That is a gain of 20+hp and 40+ft-lb of torque over stock. Those are some impressive gains and the module only increases the fuel and not the turbo boost so there shouldn't be any concern about high exhaust temps and needing to put additional gages on there to monitor the EGTs and boost.

Well not exactly. Start with the correct stock numbers for the CRD, 160 hp, 295 ft-lbs torque. Yes a 20 hp gain, but only @ 15 ft-lb gain in torque by your numbers. This is off the mark with the chemistry of diesel combustion. Add more fuel without more oxygen, all you will get is black smoke (and a bigger fuel bill). It will also raise your EGT's.

Personally wonder what the attraction of tuner boxes are other than in towing applications. Can barely keep this rig on the pavement running stock equipment. To me just not worth the $$$ or the warranty implications.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:34 am 
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I agree, the other day I pulled a 1 ton dually with a asphaly roofing trailer behind up a long steep hill to the closest gas station. The 3 guys in the truck didn't believe it from the time I pulled off the road in front of them. They still may not believe the way the Liberty got them up the hill.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 1:22 am 
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My bad I should have added this. The CRD Diesel had a rear wheel dyno of of 159hp and 268 ft-lb of torque and that was with the dynomax exhaust already installed so it probably would have been a little less with stock exhaust. The numbers should add up now. As far as adding more fuel without more oxygen and only getting black smoke isn't completely true. If the engine already gets more air than it needs for the air fuel mixture, then you can add more fuel and minimize the black smoke so long as it is burning most of the fuel. I agree that it will increase the EGTs in my opinion, but it probably isn't raising them enough for any real concern. You could always add a EGT gauge if you were worried, plus a free flowing diesel exhaust will help lower your EGTs. People who add tuners to diesel trucks and run them on tow setting usually get better fuel milage. I can't really explain how, it has something to do with making more power compaired to the amount of fuel used to make the power before the tuner, or something. It was explained to me once but I had a couple of cold ones during the explination and wasn't really paying attention. Not to say that the Liberty will get better fuel milage with one of these modules, but if you are looking for more power, you should expect a little loss of fuel mileage IMO.

As far as the attraction of tuner boxes.....150 HP and 250 ft-lb of torque gain on race setting of certain tuners. I don't need that much, but there are a lot of people who want there diesels to be a hot rod. I have seen some trucks in the neighborhood of 500hp and 1000ft-lbs of torque at the rear wheels! Needless to say there has to be some major engine tranny mods done. A lot of these trucks are running after market turbos and even twin turbo set ups and propane injection with the tuners. They are some bad stupid trucks. Probably couldn't do as much as a stock jeep off road, but they sure can go fast. :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 2:50 am 
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If it does not have TuV approval on it for a tuning box I would not touch it. TuV are the Tuning Nazi's of Germany. If they stamp it then it is agreed by all parties to be a good product. Diesel tuning is rampant here.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 3:12 am 
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Don't forget about power under the curve. If you only gain 15-20hp peak but you get the power at a lower RPM where you need it you are really gaining alot more than you think. TUV...... who cares quit being a babie :lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:48 am 
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On the Turbo Diesel Register, for Dodge Cummins trucks, one of the most cost-efective ways they've found of increasing hp/torque/fuel mileage is by doing a rather simple mod to the crank timing sensor and adjusting the timing. Apparently the factory sensor is capable of only rather coarse adjustment, and the mod allows adjustment in 1/2 degree increments.

In their analysis of add-on modules for Dodge Cummins trucks a while back, the ones that gave the best results with the lowest EGT's were those that adjusted timing in conjunction with other parameters.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:51 am 
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jinstall wrote:
If it does not have TuV approval on it for a tuning box I would not touch it. TuV are the Tuning Nazi' of Germany. If they stamp it then it is agreed by all parties to be a good product. Diesel tuning is rampant here.


:roll:

And besides, TUV only means that it is SAFE for you and other people to use onroad, it does not test the product and how good or bad it is for your vehicle.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 2:42 pm 
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All of this number crunching from the manufacturers seems to be BS in my book. From past experiences of dyno'ing my 2003 Dodge RAM 2500 CTD (305/555), as a rule of thumb, you can expect to lose about 20% of the flywheel numbers at the rear wheels with a manual transmission....maybe a tad more with the automatic transmission.

As far as the CRD : "CRD Diesel had a rear wheel dyno of of 159hp and 268 ft-lb of torque" with just an exhaust swap, I'd call BS. I have the Magnaflow Cat-Back on my CRD and I believe I could feel an increase of 31 hp and 32 torque (Basing OEM hp & torque figures and multiplying by 80%). Going from the OEM exhaust system (straight piped) on my 2003 RAM 2500 and adding the Magnaflow #15989 5" turbo-back exhaust system only gained me 10 hp and 12 torque at the rear wheels.

Of all the aftermarket programmers available in the diesel truck segment, EDGE has the most reliable numbers you can actually verify upon in real world conditions. Lots of these other manufacturers are leaving me scratching my head.

Greg

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 3:58 pm 
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Endurance wrote:
jinstall wrote:
If it does not have TuV approval on it for a tuning box I would not touch it. TuV are the Tuning Nazi' of Germany. If they stamp it then it is agreed by all parties to be a good product. Diesel tuning is rampant here.


:roll:

And besides, TUV only means that it is SAFE for you and other people to use onroad, it does not test the product and how good or bad it is for your vehicle.




What is TUV certification and what does it mean?


TUV certification involves rigorous testing of the applications for which the component is designed. It includes verification that the device satisfies the strictest European regulations for the industry in which the component was designed for and ensures the component specifications are stated correctly. Periodic retesting of the component is required to maintain TUV approval and the certification is without question the most comprehensive testing any product would undergo. In the case of a tuning module, TUV approval means the product complies with legal exhaust-emissions standards.

TUV testing of a tuning module includes:

Verifying the use of quality materials in the manufacture of an automotive product.

Emissions standards are similar to the original manufacturers standards.

No danger in the fit or use of the product.

Verifying that stated power and economy figures are accurate and are not misleading.


Diesel Power CR and PD modules have also attained the E-1 certification which verifies that the tested component does not damage or conflict with any other component on the vehicle.

All Diesel Power tuning products are TUV and E-1 certified!

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 8:36 pm 
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All these hp and torque numbers are giving me a headache. I go by the seat of my pants, and it tells me my liberty is way faster with the Predator plugged in. Do I have 268 or 300 ft-lbs of torque with the Predator??? Don't know and don't care. Just know that I have much more with it plugged in.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:31 pm 
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I just picked this bad boy up off ebay for $150.00 slightly used. It goes for its test drive tomorrow.


http://www.upscaleauto.com/diesel_power_module.htm

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:35 pm 
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If its such a good product, I wonder why someone would buy it for almost $600 and then sell it shortly after for $150?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 4:40 am 
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DarbyWalters wrote:
Endurance wrote:
jinstall wrote:
If it does not have TuV approval on it for a tuning box I would not touch it. TuV are the Tuning Nazi' of Germany. If they stamp it then it is agreed by all parties to be a good product. Diesel tuning is rampant here.


:roll:

And besides, TUV only means that it is SAFE for you and other people to use onroad, it does not test the product and how good or bad it is for your vehicle.




What is TUV certification and what does it mean?


TUV certification involves rigorous testing of the applications for which the component is designed. It includes verification that the device satisfies the strictest European regulations for the industry in which the component was designed for and ensures the component specifications are stated correctly. Periodic retesting of the component is required to maintain TUV approval and the certification is without question the most comprehensive testing any product would undergo. In the case of a tuning module, TUV approval means the product complies with legal exhaust-emissions standards.

TUV testing of a tuning module includes:

Verifying the use of quality materials in the manufacture of an automotive product.

Emissions standards are similar to the original manufacturers standards.

No danger in the fit or use of the product.

Verifying that stated power and economy figures are accurate and are not misleading.


Diesel Power CR and PD modules have also attained the E-1 certification which verifies that the tested component does not damage or conflict with any other component on the vehicle.

All Diesel Power tuning products are TUV and E-1 certified!


Danke Shone, Das ist mein punkt fur diese thread. Getting a ABE or KBA # is just as difficult. if you do not have a TUV-KBA-ABE code and yo get pulled over and they will check your registration, you will get fined and or the parts(s) will be impounded.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 7:00 am 
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Endurance wrote:
If its such a good product, I wonder why someone would buy it for almost $600 and then sell it shortly after for $150?


Maybe it shreadded his tranny and DC saw it and voided his warranty and he needs the money to have the tranny replaced :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 2:10 pm 
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Because he got a unit from Edge for beta testing he sold it on ebay. Unfortunately on ebay if you don't put a reserve on something like that and its a specialty item. You may not get what its worth. The unit works very well the performance is very noticeable pulling in 4th and 5th gear. It seems to make the Jeep more linear in acceleration. It pretty much drives the way would think it should from the factory. The unit goes in the middle of the fuel pressure sensor connector. So the only thing DMC would see is the fuel pressure sensor reporting low fuel pressure if that’s even recorded.

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