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 Post subject: ERG pics after taken apart...Thanx DZL_LOU
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 7:46 am 
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Don't ask me where I got this bad EGR from a 2006 CRD with 3000 miles. All I can say is that I spent A LOT of time bartering.

The EGR can be broken down into two parts, the solenoid on the right and the EGR valve on the left.
The EGR on the CRD is an electrically controlled EGR. There is some mis-information out there that the EGR is vaccum operated and modifying the exhaust will void the warranty. That’s pure horse hockey!
There are two small coolant pipes for coolant in and coolant out, which cool the two mated surfaces between the solenoid and EGR. The solenoid would get burned up in a hurry if that coolant jacked did not act as a heat sink.
This is yet another load on the coolant system along with the engine and transmission cooling needs. It’s imperative to have a good operating cooling system. Make sure that you take good care of doing your radiator flush and fills each year.
Image

Rotational View.
This shows the inlet for the exhaust gases to come in.
Image

Rotational view.
This shows the cavity where the cooled exhaust gases mix with the CAC (Fresh Air) coming from the output of the intercooler and passing through the EGR Flow Control Valve
Image

Rotational view.
Image

Rotational view
Image

The solenoid is on the left and the EGR valve is on the right. Notice how the surfaces mate with each other. The solenoid basically either pushes or retracts the pintle against the seat of the EGR which causes the EGR valve to open.
Also, notice that the solenoid can "sense" if the EGR valve is closed because the seat of the outer ring EGR contact plate will seat flush against the solenoid.
Image

This is another closeup showing the solenoid and the pintle.
Image

This shows that without a current applied to the solenoid, I can use a pencil to push it down. It acts similarly to a dead bolt on a door. It's either retracted (pulled in ) or extended (pushed out). If the pintle is pushed out under a current applied to the solenoid, forget using a pencil to move it.
Image
This is a close up of the EGR surface that mates to the solenoid. Notice that there is a stripe on the left of the surface. This could be a leak from the coolant jacket.
Image

This is a side view of the EGR there are two diaphram disc valves on each side of the spindle. If the EGR is closed then no gases are in the cavity. This cavity is where the CAC air (Fresh Air) comes from the intercooler and is controlled by the EGR Flow Control Valve. The Flow Control Valve is not pictured.
Image

Another view of the EGR where you may see the disc valve barely.
Image

This is where the exhaust gases enter to be recirculated in the previous picture
Image

To push the EGR Valves in the open position, takes quite a bit of pressure by the pintle from the solenoid. I'm using a screw driver here to show that the spring always holds the valves shut so that no exhaust gases enter.
Image

I really had to push HARD with my thumb on the EGR plate to force the diaphram discs to open up. You'll notice that this opens the valve for the exhaust gases to come into the larger EGR cavity to be mixed with the fresh air. The exhaust gases them mix with the CAC (Fresh Air).
Image

This shows that the cooled exhaust gases are now let into the EGR cavity to next be mixed with the CAC (Fresh Air) and then be pushed into the intake.
Image

I'm sure these photos will stir much discussion, which I hope they do.

The failure points for the EGR as far as I can tell are the following:
1) The solenoid fails and does not operate the pintle in and out.
2) The Coolant Jacket fails and leaks
3) The EGR diaphragm valves get stuck and the solenoid cannot operate

Keep in mind that the EGR pictured above and the EGR Flow Control Valve will throw the same CEL value. Many times the techs will replace both but the flow control valve is much easier to remove and replace. It can be done from topside quickly. Therefore under warranty the tech will do that quickly as it pays better.
Removing the EGR is not a quick component swap.

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2006 CRD Sport

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Drag Strip:Reac=.1078_60ft=2.224_1/8=10.39@64.8mph_1/4+16.46@80.8mph


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 5:57 pm 
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Posted by gmctd:

Inmotion is hugely more powerful because of the Euro-tune, with altered fuel rates , boost pressures, and reduced EGR input - still got burned exhaust mixing with clean atmosphere, tho - still got the mess in the intake to somehow eliminate - 350bucks on Inmotion tune with free recovery reflashes
- need the SEGR ORM upgrade to clean it up - 'nuther 80bucks

- SEGR ORM is more powerful merely by defeating the EGR, which means pure clean atmosphere into the cylinders - does not alter fuel rates or Boost - also eliminates the gunky build-up in the intake tract - pull your MAP sensor to get a sense of the situation, there
- need an EDGE chip or similar to get the extra power - 'nuther 449bucks up to 850bucks for the better ones

Just FYI -
Inmotion tune is the ECM - cannot be removed for appointment with MrMoservice - may be reflashed during subsequent TSB compliance - return to Inmotion for reflash
The EDGE can be removed for a trip to MrMoservice, but is also more primitive method of tune than Inmotion

IMO - SEGR ORM has greater benefits, so you should run them both, your choice of tune and ORM - son's '05 had the EDGE when we got it, so we've not had the F37 stock experience, yet

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Founder of L.O.S.T.
2006 CRD Sport

Mods: GDE Hot Tune w/ 364#@2000rpm/Air Box /3" Str8 Exhaust/ASFIR Alum Skids/245-75R-16 Cooper STT PRO/OME LIFT w/Clevis & 4 Spring Isos/AirTabs/Rigid 10" S2 LED/4xGuard Ctr Matrix Bumper
Drag Strip:Reac=.1078_60ft=2.224_1/8=10.39@64.8mph_1/4+16.46@80.8mph


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 Post subject: EDGE Chip Question
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:06 pm 
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I have an EDGE Chip v4.0 installed on my 05 CRD. Wanted it to improve milage. So far no great increase. Any ideas?


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 Post subject: I pulled the plug on the intake........
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:22 pm 
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So did pulling the plug on the air intake (round one on top - not the side) shut off the EGR?
Or would just pulling the plug at the EGR be better? I just want to stop the EGR from opening.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:20 pm 
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The pics show the MAF connector - no need to pull the EGR connector
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... hp?t=22631

_________________
'05 CRD Limited
Pricol EGT, Boost
GDE Hot '11; EDGE Trail switched
SEGR; Provent; Magnaflow;
Suncoast T\C, Transgo Tow'n'Go switch;
Cummins LP module, Fleetguard filter, Filterminder
2.5" Daystar f, OME r; Ranchos; K80767's, Al's lifted uppers
Rubicons, 2.55 Goodyears
Four in a row really makes it go


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:15 pm 
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Can you take a pic of the engine bay and make a red circle around the area where the EGR valve is situated?

I have a very good idea that they changed from using vacuum (at least on my 2003 CRD) to use electric motors to operate the EGR, but I need you to show me where the EGR valve is situated in your engine bay.

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Former car: Jeep KJ 2003 CRD

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:38 pm 
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Look down past the fuel manager, beneath the intake manifold plenum - you'll see it on the side of the engine, near the back

_________________
'05 CRD Limited
Pricol EGT, Boost
GDE Hot '11; EDGE Trail switched
SEGR; Provent; Magnaflow;
Suncoast T\C, Transgo Tow'n'Go switch;
Cummins LP module, Fleetguard filter, Filterminder
2.5" Daystar f, OME r; Ranchos; K80767's, Al's lifted uppers
Rubicons, 2.55 Goodyears
Four in a row really makes it go


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:20 am 
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This is like being in a new town to me.

"Go past Jacksons house and turn right ..."

Eep.

What is the fuel manager and where is it??

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L.O.S.T forever!
Silver 2002 Skoda Fabia TDI, 235,000km
Former car: Jeep KJ 2003 CRD

DIESEL - saving millions of liters of petrol every day!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:56 pm 
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:lol: Sorry, dude - the fuel manager head contains the fuel filter, primer pump, fuel heater, water in fuel sensor and drain, and sometimes, even, fuel - stand just back of the battery, look down in across the fuel manager to the rear area on the side of the engine, under the intake manifold, above the starter

You'll see a 1" pipe coming around the back of the engine, attached to the EGR assembly, then another going from there forward to the FCA valve, at the front of the intake plenum - both pipes attach to the EGR valve body.

_________________
'05 CRD Limited
Pricol EGT, Boost
GDE Hot '11; EDGE Trail switched
SEGR; Provent; Magnaflow;
Suncoast T\C, Transgo Tow'n'Go switch;
Cummins LP module, Fleetguard filter, Filterminder
2.5" Daystar f, OME r; Ranchos; K80767's, Al's lifted uppers
Rubicons, 2.55 Goodyears
Four in a row really makes it go


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 4:44 am 
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gmctd wrote:
:lol: Sorry, dude - the fuel manager head contains the fuel filter, primer pump, fuel heater, water in fuel sensor and drain, and sometimes, even, fuel - stand just back of the battery, look down in across the fuel manager to the rear area on the side of the engine, under the intake manifold, above the starter

You'll see a 1" pipe coming around the back of the engine, attached to the EGR assembly, then another going from there forward to the FCA valve, at the front of the intake plenum - both pipes attach to the EGR valve body.


Thanks for the lesson.

I have a very tough time spotting anything beside the starter and the CAC intake hose. I took some photos below the cac hoses (camera could go in but my thick head couldn't). All they show is some wires no hoses :(

I found something on the other side of the engine at the turbo, a little disc-shaped thing which goes into the turbo. It has a vacuum hose going to it. What is this then?

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L.O.S.T forever!
Silver 2002 Skoda Fabia TDI, 235,000km
Former car: Jeep KJ 2003 CRD

DIESEL - saving millions of liters of petrol every day!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 12:12 pm 
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Ok, let's try another tack.............

The wastegate actuator on a standard turbo, or the VVT/VNT actuator on the hi-tech Garret turbo, is a vacuum-operated diaphragm motor, attached directly to the turbo housing, so you will have one for the turbo.

An early engineering drawing shows the 1"dia EGR tube coming around back of the engine, bolted directly into the intake plenum tube - that would seem to indicate the actual EGR valve to be on the exhaust manifold, around on the turbo side of the engine, prolly in the area between the turbo and the back of the engine, or even at the end of the exhaust manifold.

So, the EGR vacuum actuator would also be near the turbo, in that area - follow that 1"dia EGR tube around to it's source on the EGR valve for verification.

The drawing also indicates the intake tube as bolted onto the intake plenum, and the entire intake plenum as bolt-on, easily recognizeable by all the bolts along the vertical flange along the side of the main engine cover - I'm gonna be very envious if your engine configuration matches that drawing - would make it very easy to clean-out the intake system

BTW - good move on doing the search and reconnaisance pics - show'n'tell rules! - would be very informative if you could post a few pics of your '03 Euro version, to illustrate the differences.

_________________
'05 CRD Limited
Pricol EGT, Boost
GDE Hot '11; EDGE Trail switched
SEGR; Provent; Magnaflow;
Suncoast T\C, Transgo Tow'n'Go switch;
Cummins LP module, Fleetguard filter, Filterminder
2.5" Daystar f, OME r; Ranchos; K80767's, Al's lifted uppers
Rubicons, 2.55 Goodyears
Four in a row really makes it go


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:50 am 
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For '03 the engine may or may not be a VGT - I think it is a wastegated turbo so the actuator might not be there.

For '03 the engine also used a vacuum EGR system where the valve was mounted on the exhaust manifold before the cooler, I think this was carried over to '04 as well. For '05/'06 in the US it was switched to the electronic EGR actuator because it allows for more precise control which was needed to meet more strict emissions regulations in the US than required for EU standards. I have seen some BUX vehicles from '05/'06 that used the same cooler assembly as the US models but with a pneumatic/vacuum valve - interestingly enough, the pneumatic valves have a higher pull-off force from the actuator than do the electric ones and are much less prone to sticking and needing replacement. For 2003 the engine might also not have had the throttle valve unit as I don't think they were implemented until later.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:22 pm 
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MrMopar64 wrote:
For '03 the engine may or may not be a VGT - I think it is a wastegated turbo so the actuator might not be there.

For '03 the engine also used a vacuum EGR system where the valve was mounted on the exhaust manifold before the cooler, I think this was carried over to '04 as well. For '05/'06 in the US it was switched to the electronic EGR actuator because it allows for more precise control which was needed to meet more strict emissions regulations in the US than required for EU standards. I have seen some BUX vehicles from '05/'06 that used the same cooler assembly as the US models but with a pneumatic/vacuum valve - interestingly enough, the pneumatic valves have a higher pull-off force from the actuator than do the electric ones and are much less prone to sticking and needing replacement. For 2003 the engine might also not have had the throttle valve unit as I don't think they were implemented until later.


Yeah! What he said! :D

The disc shaped turbo thingy was also on my Patrol GR '95, and people "in the know" told me how to disable the EGR valve on the car. The thing on the KJ is exactly the same as on the Patrol (to the eye at least, its darn well hidden behind CAC hoses and water hoses going to the heater inside the car)

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L.O.S.T forever!
Silver 2002 Skoda Fabia TDI, 235,000km
Former car: Jeep KJ 2003 CRD

DIESEL - saving millions of liters of petrol every day!


Last edited by Uffe on Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:24 pm 
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Good input - did the early versions have the separate, bolt-on intake manifold cover?

_________________
'05 CRD Limited
Pricol EGT, Boost
GDE Hot '11; EDGE Trail switched
SEGR; Provent; Magnaflow;
Suncoast T\C, Transgo Tow'n'Go switch;
Cummins LP module, Fleetguard filter, Filterminder
2.5" Daystar f, OME r; Ranchos; K80767's, Al's lifted uppers
Rubicons, 2.55 Goodyears
Four in a row really makes it go


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:19 pm 
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Guess what? The water cooling ain't fer th' recirculated exhaust gasses - the water-cooling is to reduce temps at the flange for the solenoid - very few electrical components are designed to run at avg 650degF - the actual EGR dumped into the intake is raw - thass why ya see 65degF IAT difference after SEGR

And, that's how eyes-on is enhanced by hands-on....................

_________________
'05 CRD Limited
Pricol EGT, Boost
GDE Hot '11; EDGE Trail switched
SEGR; Provent; Magnaflow;
Suncoast T\C, Transgo Tow'n'Go switch;
Cummins LP module, Fleetguard filter, Filterminder
2.5" Daystar f, OME r; Ranchos; K80767's, Al's lifted uppers
Rubicons, 2.55 Goodyears
Four in a row really makes it go


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 Post subject: egr removed?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:27 pm 
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ya... ah... how'd you get that thing out?

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