Airbox Water and Moog Ball Joints

fastRob · **Posted:** Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:08 am

Changed the air filter yesterday and it was soaking wet. Anyone else have that?
Searched up "airbox water" and got 368 pages of posts. Maybe so.
Is a 2002 Liberty air box the best answer?

Going to the dealership Friday for Moog K3199 ball joints as part of the recall dance. Thanks for the numbers JD.
Will they do an alignment too?

R

Goglio704 · **Posted:** Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:38 am

Wet air filters with the stock CRD intake are a known issue. Some have more trouble with it than others. The gasser intake has fixed the water problem for many, but some think it may be somewhat more restrictive than the stock CRD setup.

The alignment after balljoint replacement question can get complicated. It depends to some extent on how worn the joint was and whether the alignment had been adjusted to correct for it. From what people have posted here, most dealers do not perform an alignment as part of the recall. In most cases they probably don't need to, but the service manual does call for an alignment after joint replacement. Like many things with the dealer, the necessity of it probably hinges on whether they are going to profit from it...

Timmaah! · **Posted:** Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:42 pm

The ball joints on our Libertys are tension ball joints. They are small and precisely made and one advantage of these joints is they tend to wear to center and maintain alignment until they pop and drop your Liberty on the ground. The Moog units are good quality and have been maintaining new tightness for the last 30k miles on my Liberty.

fastRob · **Posted:** Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:02 pm

Does $76 each sound about right for the Moog K3199's?
There is a recall on the filter box. I am interested in seeing what the solution is.
Hopefully the Fumoto valve will come in so I can get the oil changed, Fumoto and the skid plate installed.

R

Timmaah! · **Posted:** Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:35 am

I think that's what I paid.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:44 am

I paid $60 each for the K3199's at CarQuest,but that was 2 years ago.

fastRob · **Posted:** Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:48 am

Summit has them for $63 plus shipping.

cerich · **Posted:** Wed Mar 12, 2008 12:50 pm

fastRob wrote:

Does $76 each sound about right for the Moog K3199's?
There is a recall on the filter box. I am interested in seeing what the solution is.
Hopefully the Fumoto valve will come in so I can get the oil changed, Fumoto and the skid plate installed.

R

what recall on the filter box?

honey_don't · **Posted:** Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:04 pm

cerich wrote:

what recall on the filter box?

+1
Yesterday the dealer checked and said I was current on all recalls (F23&F37 done)

fastRob · **Posted:** Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:53 pm

I asked the dealer about recalls and I thought he said air box among the others. We did not have all the same outstanding recall items so yes there is some confusion.
Not sure so just now I went on Jeep.com with the last 6 of my vin.
I have for outstanding recalls:
1. Blower Motor
2. Lower Ball joints
3. Reprogram TCM for after markescan scan tool
4. Reprogram body control module
Granted this list does not mention air box. I will ask about the air box when I bring the Liberty in for service.

R

Timmaah! · **Posted:** Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:35 pm

fastRob wrote:

Summit has them for $63 plus shipping.

Yes, I found them cheaper too but they had to be ordered at the time. I paid more for the ones that were available and did the installation because I had the time and the OEM's were at the wear limit - at 16k miles!

gmctd · **Posted:** Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:36 pm

Rock Auto has them for
MOOG Part # K3199 {Ball Joint}Category: Ball Joint $47.79 $0.00 $47.79

fastRob · **Posted:** Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:50 am

GMCTD, thanks for the Rock Auto tip. Will add it to my favorites for the future.

The dealer told me that Chrysler would reimburse the installation if broken and under recall. I think something is loose in the front end and am leary about waiting for parts. Also want to get a feel for the repair skills of the dealership. Bringing it in for service Friday, hopefully the fumoto valve will arrive in time for an oil change.
Any service items I should ask them to check, look at?

R

gmctd · **Posted:** Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:56 am

Verify heater puck integrity on the fuel manager head - should not leak

Do not use impact wrench on aluminum oilpan drain-plug

Shock absorbing alternator pulley should not be noisy at idle

Do not use impact wrench on aluminum oilpan drain-plug

Verify EGR-AFC\TV operation

Do not use impact wrench on aluminum oilpan drain-plug

fastRob · **Posted:** Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:42 am

gmctd wrote:

................................................................

Verify EGR-AFC\TV operation

Do not use impact wrench on aluminum oilpan drain-plug

Thank you JD.
The fuel head manager is somewhat understood. We will see if the oil pan drain plug gets stripped.
The amount of information necessary to sort/learn is overwhelming. I have been trying to pack it in the head but sometimes the learning curve is like the water off a duck's back, falling off :lol:

.

The EGR(Exhaust Gas Recirculation)-AFC\TV has not quite soaked in yet.
That would be where the $275 SEGR wiring mod comes in, right? Is that the Off Road Mod(ORM)?
The Pro-vent is an oil filter trap for the blow by vapors generated by motor oil and heat.
How these 2 interact is not quite understood yet.
Your comments are appreciated, a lot!
R

honey_don't · **Posted:** Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:56 pm

fastRob wrote:

The EGR(Exhaust Gas Recirculation)-AFC\TV has not quite soaked in yet.
That would be where the $275 SEGR wiring mod comes in, right? Is that the Off Road Mod(ORM)?
The Pro-vent is an oil filter trap for the blow by vapors generated by motor oil and heat.
How these 2 interact is not quite understood yet.
Your comments are appreciated, a lot!
R

Hey fastRob, here is what I think I know:

The EGR valve introduces varying amounts of water-cooled exhaust gas into the engine's air intake in order to reduce NOX emissions from the tailpipe.
The SEGR disables the EGR valve function under almost all conditions without triggering a check engine light (CEL)
The ORM means unplugging the mass air flow (MAF) sensor which causes the EGR valve to remain closed at all times and triggers a CEL and code.

When exhaust gases introduced via the EGR valve mix with oil vapor from the crankcase vent (CCV), a tar-like sticky clogging gunk is formed and deposits everywhere downstream of the EGR valve. This residue is easily observed caked to the MAP sensor and negative results include restriction of air flow as deposits build (think clogged artery).

There are two common ways to reduce CCV vapor introduction into the intake: 1)EHM 2) CCV filter

EHM- elephant hose mod; one end of a hose is attached to the CCV puck and the other end is left hanging below engine. The hose into the intake is plugged with a cork or something
CCV filter- the provent is a type of CCV filter. Basically a catch can is installed between the CCV puck and the intake which interupt the vapor flow sufficiently to cause the oil to fall out and collect in the catch can.

Removing one or both of the ingredients of the clogging tar gunk helps keep the engine running efficiently and disabling the EGR valve function lowers intake air temperature (IAT) due to reduction of hot exhaust gas introduction. Some ECMs reduce engine performance and efficiency as IAT increases. IAT is measured at the MAP sensor.
Some say that the amount of residue introduced via EGR valve should be much lower now that we have ULSD commonly. On a system with a clean intake track and no EGR functionality, an OEM CCV should have minimal negative impact. Testing has shown that oil coated intercooler interiors see no performance loss.

fastRob · **Posted:** Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:49 pm

EGR(Exhaust Gas Recirculation)-AFC\TV

Honey_don't,
Sounds good. What about the -AFC\TV part?
Maximum extraction of energy from fuel.

Dropped the Liberty off tonight for the ball joints. A whole list of things, forgot to write down about the wet air filter.
Saw mention of a snorkle on the Search.
Thought about a canister filter off an off road racer or construction equipment with centrifugal separation and canister filter.

R

05infernoCRDL · **Posted:** Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:19 pm

honey_don't wrote:

[
The SEGR disables the EGR valve function under almost all conditions without triggering a check engine light (CEL)

very very close... with the SEGR the EGR NEVER opens except if you use the bypass plug

honey_don't · **Posted:** Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:28 pm

fastRob: I'm not sure how that part of the system works *AFC/TV*

05infernoCRDL: somewhere on here I read that the SEGR allows the EGR valve to open when the tranny is in Park, didn't say why though...

gmctd · **Posted:** Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:06 am

EGR functions best(??) when exhaust pressure exceeds Manifold Air Pressure, which is usually at or below atmospheric pressure - the roles are reversed, however, in a turbocharged engine where MAP is usually at some level greater than atmospheric pressure - enter the Air Flow Control valve, or Throttle Valve, a throttle plate in the intake plenum - ECM uses this valve to lower MAP during Boost conditions, such that EGR has a better chance of making a mess in the intake - it also serves a wunnerful function at shutdown by throttling the intake, creating a high vacuum in the cylinders - vacuum is non-compressible, so the pistons are not fighting compression forces, such that the engine shuts down smoothly, without the traditional Diesel Death Shudder - sorta like a gasser (patooie!) - 'sokay to defeat the EGR, but the MAF must be operational in order for ECM to control the AFC\TV at shutdown - also at startup, 'cause if the valve is closed, engine won't Diesel - ECM closes the TV at shutdown, then re-opens it ~5secs after crankshaft stops rotating, which is the odd whirring clanking noise you'll hear if you hang around for a bit after getting out of the vehicle - the ~85buck SEGR mod works wonders in that scenario, disabling the EGR valve without triggering a CEL, while allowing the AFC\TV to function as normal - ECM can close the AFC\TV only if the transmission is shifted into PARK range, for obvious reasons.

Try it, you'll like it - we do.........................

Airbox Water and Moog Ball Joints

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