It is currently Wed Apr 24, 2024 10:09 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Rocker arm walkthrough - Removal and installation *UPDATED*
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 1:54 am 
Offline
LOST Addict

Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 3:14 pm
Posts: 2294
Location: Sumter, SC
****UPDATE****
Link for the document with pictures:

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=E ... ile%2cdocx

Thanks to Papaindigo who saved the whole walkthrough with pics.

It looks this forum still won't accept onedrive or google drive links, I will not create new accounts to imageshack or other accepted sites just to refresh the pictures, so please use the document above.



Hey Guys,

There were a lot of us that had a rocker arm replacement, but we still don’t have a step-by-step walkthrough. This walkthrough addresses to the "regular handy guy-ish" that is not afraid to get his hands dirty but is not an experienced mechanic either. I had several engine rebuilds on my resume, but I have done this as a hobby, stimulated by the fact that with time and determination, what I do is better than what any other mechanic that charges by hour (and cant afford charging extra time for doing all kind of "side-job" tasks - like extra cleaning the intake, or putting anti-seize on every bolt, etc). Since I had done this rocker job myself, and I wasn't pressed by time constraints (so I could take few pictures while working), I thought to start putting together a walkthrough for Rocker Arm/Lifter replacement Job. I would greatly appreciate any suggestion on how to improve this process, the whole job had a happy end :BANANA: , jeep purrs like a kitten, but I bet there are things that can be improved.

1. Pre-Prerequisites
I would like to start by saying that I did not have a rocker arm (or timing belt related) failure, I just wanted to replace them more due to “horror” stories with folks getting stuck in the middle of the road and thousands due for repair and mainly for my peace of mind. I did have though a significant mileage decrease over time, cumulated with a noise that seemed to be rocker arm/lifter related (even if our lifters are hydraulics (and they can’t be adjusted – like on other engines), it still sounded like having a “tic-tic-tic” noise). Another reason I started this was because at 100k (now I’m at about 125K), I did the timing belt without the water pump and also I haven’t replaced the glow plugs either. So this was a great time to do both.
2. Prerequisites
Required tools: FSM doesn't do a good job naming the sizes of the bolts/nuts or any other required tools, except Miller tools. They also do not name any specific technique you should use, maybe because “DC Academy” should have taught mechanics how to do it (doubtfully…). I find this kind of stupid but in the same time this is how any FSM I saw is. Regardless, make sure you read the manual, there may be things in there I omitted in my walkthrough. It will also show you the torque order of the bolts for valve cover.

Being an Italian engine, all nuts/bolts are metric. So have handy some 7, 8, 10, 13, 15, 17, 19, 22mm (I think this is only for crank shaft) sockets (regular and deep is best). I think 5mm and 8mm allen keys are also required. I do not remember the size of the map sensor retaining screw, it may be 4mm.

Image

Image

Image

Image

I used Watter Wetter since I replaced the water pump, and I like to keep things as cool as possible for the summer.
Image

A pic with one of the old rocker:

Image

It seems to be ok, it has a little play in the roller but not something that seems horrible. This rocker also has about 125-ish k miles. The new ones had no play, but they were also not broken in, and I do not know how the roller would look like or how much play will have after let's say 1000 miles (and I wont take the whole thing apart again just to find out for sure, lol). If there is somebody that wants to inspect them, let me know, I could ship them. I am thinking if Keith looks up this post and he is interested, I could ship them for free to him for study. I purchased this jeep at a little less than 80K, right away I ran ORM (MAF unplugged) and at about 120k I finally got the ECO full torque tune from GDE. I always used Mobil 1 0w40 for no more than 8k miles (when driving highway mostly - I used to go back and forth Cleveland OH - Wilmington DE for work - about 450 miles one way) or about 6k miles when using the jeep in Cleveland area. This just to have an idea on what this car had after 80k miles. Prior to that, I do not know the jeep history, but I got it from a dealer that had semi-synthetic oil in it (and obviously first thing was to change the oil). My guess is that rocker failure is mainly because of improper oil changes and harsh driving by previous owners mostly, and only few people in this forum got a CRD brand new (and haven't heard any of them complaining about rocker failure).

17 and 13 regular (open) wrench are required for injector removal. Various extensions are a must, preferably 1/4 drive, since those are smaller/thinner and fit better in all the corners. Flex head ratchets are also very useful and I personally highly recommend having a 1/4 and 3/8 one. Obviously, a torque wrench is required for installation. Miller (or Sealey) tools for the cam shafts, fly wheel, belt tensioner are very useful, you can probably do it without (and if you do, you need a way to lock the cams, so make sure you build some if you are not willing to buy them), but it is so much easier having them. A search on ebay for “2.8 CRD CAM CRANK TIMING” would return few hits with the Sealey set (I got it from a guy in UK in a red box). I didn’t have the Miller cam sprockets locking tool, but I made a big “V” tool similar to the one the guy in this link (http://www.beesvillebeefarm.com/jeep.html) uses for his sprockets.

Image

Making one is fairly easy since for less than 20 bucks you can get everything from Home Depot. As a note, make sure the bolts you use are 3/8, any smaller one will bent under the torque (my cam sprockets were very tight apparently). I also made the handles being the same size as the torque wrench, to be easier to balance the forces when torqueing the bolts back. Obviously, if you have the miller tool for cam sprockets that’s definitely the best. You will also need a bottle brush (or any brush that can flex/bend and has a long handle – see one of the top pics for the brush), I found one in the kitchen and stole it from my wife – it is used to wash bottles or deep jars, worked as a charm in cleaning the gunk from the intake. I used couple gallons of gasoline (about couple quarts each time) to dissolve the gunk that is left after scraping (cheaper than buying a gazillion spray bottles with intake/carb cleaner). Once intake is out, soak that sucker in gasoline after removing the bulk soot from it. Let it soak for 30-60 minutes, then start using the brush to clean it.


3. Removal
– Start with Timing belt removal procedure (align the engine, use the miller/Sealey tools for cams and fly wheel, remove cac and turbo hoses, bla bla)
There are numerous walkthroughs about timing belt (and water pump if required) replacement, I would just name Sir Sam’s video walkthrough (from sticky – Noob Guide) and this one (for those that don’t want to watch a video):

http://www.beesvillebeefarm.com/jeep.html

I find this walkthrough very useful and kudos for the author! As a side note, the only thing I would do different would be to just replace the front part of the water pump (or as some refer to it, just the first 1/2 or the mobile part), it is too much of a pain to replace the whole unit (Sir Sam mentions the same thing in his videos). If the crankshaft dampener is stuck, even after removing the bolts, use a pulley to get it unstuck, it should come down very easy.

Image


- Then continue with throttle body/FCV/Elbow removal from intake. For how to remove the throttle body, FCV and elbow from intake, read Squeeto’s glow plugs walkthrough, it is very useful for our job:

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=70159

As a side note, just replace the glow plugs (if haven’t done that prior) when the whole valve cover is out, it is much easier. Start by removing the alternator and fuel filter. Smaller sockets (meaning smaller drive, like 1/4 are best for this:

Image

Image

Try sticking the hand in between the elbow and cylinder head, you can use that hand to drive the socket to the bolt while the other hand to untie the bolt with the socket and flex head drive.

Image

Once elbow is out, admire the junk egr causes:

Image

Before attacking the injectors, I would recommend to take some paint marker and write down on each injector it’s number, starting from front of the car (that would be #1) and ending with the windshield (that would be #4). Also, on the electric connector, write down the same number, so you can match them up easily. The electric wires should have a sticker already with the number of injector, but don’t count on that, it could get loose and fall anytime. I really liked Hexus’ idea with using band aid and a sharpie, it is very easy to do. Proceed in removing the fuel rail, and injectors. First, remove the return line from the injector, by removing the safety pin and gently pulling up the return line from the injector. After you are done with all return line segments from each injector, you may either want to pull out the return line from the 4 way return line connector, either leave it in there (just slide it off from the valve cover and leave it hanging somewhere. I tried pulling out the injector return line and broke the return connector, since I didn’t know it is made of plastic, so be very careful:

Image

In my case I end up using 2 T connectors, so if you do break it, it’s not a tragedy. Just keep in mind that one line is a hard plastic one, it won’t come out from the 4 way connector and you will have to cut it and replace it with a regular hose, and that hose is connected to the fuel pump (it will add 1-2 hours to your total work time)

Fuel rail is pretty straight forward, remove the 3 bolts that secure it onto the valve cover, but prior to that, loosen up the fuel line nuts that are tied to the rail (do not remove them, just loosen them up) then remove the fuel line nuts from the injectors. Soak them with plenty PB Blaster and let them soak for few minutes, than if they are still stuck, re-apply PB Blaster, mainly on the nut in the fuel line side, they tend to get dusty (or corroded) in between the line and the nut and this causes them to get stuck. You will need a 17 and 13 metrics for that (the open ones), one hand pull on 17, the other push on 13 :

Image

After the fuel lines and rail are gone from the valve cover, proceed in removing everything that is on the valve cover (crank case ventilation, cam position sensor, manifold air pressure, just keep in mind where everything was placed. Taking few pics for self-reference when installing back is not a bad idea at all. Use a lot of pb blaster for the injectors, I sprayed enough to flush the injector hole with the valve cover, just to make sure they will become unstuck and avoid unpleasant bad words (curses) when removal time came. After removing securing brackets from the injectors, rotate them left-right (by hand – no tools) so they get loosen up a little, then use a plier to pry them off the cylinder head. Make sure you soak a paper towel or a rag in that PB Blaster prior to removal so it won't fall in the cylinder when the injector is removed.

Image

For the injector number 1, you can use a socket under the plier for a better angle.
Once injectors are gone, proceed in removing the bolts from valve cover. You can reuse them at installation, but I’d recommend buying at least 2 long ones (id parts has them) since if you cut the bolt hex head, file that end a little, you can use them when installing back the valve cover:

Image

To move away the wiring from the top of the head (visible in one of my pics), remove the wires from the plastic harness, use some cable ties to group them together, then tie them with an electric wire on one end, and the other end on one of the wind shield arms. This will keep the wires out of your way. After the valve cover is off, remove the gasket then the rockers. Clean the top of the cylinder head, install the new rocker arms and gasket. It is recommended to sink the new rockers in new engine oil that you have in your jeep. I used a windshield washer bottle that I cut the top off, placed the new rockers in and covered it with oil. Let them sink in for a day or so, so start doing it ahead of installation.
Clean the elbow, throttle body and air intake and valve cover from all that ugly gunk. After scraping the bulk off, use some gasoline for the rest of it, it is better than buying a bunch of throttle body/carb cleaner. The wifey bottle brush came in handy at this point. After all gunk is gone, hose up the valve cover and elbow and let it dry in the sun, or just air-pressure dry it. You should find a screw/bolt that fits in where the MAP sensor hole is, this way you can put some gasoline in the valve cover to let it soak, without worrying it will come out through that hole. I had an old MAP sensor that I used.

Image

Image

4. Installation
Before installing the cover and rockers, LMWatBullRun, our arp studs guru, recommended to re-torque the head bolts. Set your torque wrench to 125ft/lbs and re-torque the bolts following the order from fsm. It seems they become loose due to repeated hot-cold cycle and not the best quality of materials. I personally regret I haven't known this before, I hope I won't have to re-open it later.

This is pretty straight forward, install the oil soaked rockers, gasket, valve cover (using those 2 bolts without head as a guide and follow the torque procedure highlighted in the FSM. Install the elbow and throttle body/FCW, install all the sensors on the valve cover, install injectors (clean them per FSM and add some anti-seize on them, but not on the tip, I'd recommend to replace the injector rubber O ring and crusher washer with new one), torque per FSM. If you need the FSM, I believe there is a link in the noob guide for them, Sir Sam was kind enough to host them on his site and are available for download. When putting back the fuel lines in the injectors, make sure you place the line straight on the tip of the injector, having them on a weird angle will more than likely create leaks and throw CEL. So with one hand align the line properly and while pressing the line to the injector, use the other hand to screw the nut in the injector, and only release the pressure when the nut will not screw in anymore by hand.

Image

Proceed with timing belt (again, watch Sir Sam’s video or follow the instructions available on the forum for this). If you leave loose the cam sprockets, you can also start from the crank shaft, moving your way over tensioner (make sure the tensioner is on the “loosest” position – like the belt would have slack if left like that) the water pump, cam sprockets, keep belt tensioned then move it over the injection pump, while keeping in mind not to mess up the marking for it. Then, when everything is in place, torque the cam sprockets per FMS specs:

Image

Image

Remove the pins from fly wheel and cams, test your timing for few complete turns and you’re good to go.
Make sure you let the air out before you start (air out the filter), and after few spins and if you didn’t forget to hook up a sensor of effed up something else the engine will start.

Please feel free to add any suggestion/info to this walkthrough. I understand it isn’t perfect and I am willing to accept any improvement to it. I will do my best to keep this thread up to date.

Useful links (I'll add more once I find them):
1. Hexus' Rocker arm job: http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=74149
Some parts numbers and thoughts posted by him:

Quote:
Some Helpful Part #'s:

Rockers/Lifters (ID Parts has the best price as of 3-12-13, $340)
Valve Cover Gasket - 5066786AA
Fuel Injector O-Ring - 5069135AB
Fuel Injector Crush Washer - 5072722AA
FCV/EGR Gasket - 5066946AA [Right side of Valve Cover]

You're going to need 2 Gallons of Zerex-5 HOAT Coolant, just buy it now because the coolant you drain out inevetably will get dirty somehow and you probably need to change it anyways.

Get some Anti-Seize and use it on the Fuel Injectors, because they're going to get dirty.

BUY - 2 Cans of PB Blaster, this stuff is magical, it is made out of Unicorn horns and frees up any rusty/stuck bolts in a matter of 40 seconds, my whole garage still smells like it.

Blue Loc-Tite thread locker - The Inner Timing Belt Cover bolts all have it when you take it out, put it on when you put it back in, you'll need it for the fan nut if you're doing the Hayden clutch too, trust me.

A Big Crescent wrench and 13mm socket works good to remove the radiator fan nut, but not so good putting it back on if you buy the Hayden Fan Clutch and 12 Blade Nylon Fan. NAPA sells a very nice, very thin, very strong Fan Removal Wrench that works wonders for about $26 and absolutely works taking off as well as putting back on. I strongly suggest getting one.

Go ahead and get a tube of silicone, because inevitably you're going to get frustrated and break one of the darn connectors for the wiring harness you have to move out of the way, this will help seal it up once you plug it back together during your rebuild. Small Zip ties too, something will have to hold it together.


LMWatBullRun:
Quote:
Metal head gaskets do not 'blow'. Not by themselves. Something has to move.
Fiber HG can blow, and carbon fiber HG can blow but not steel.
Either the bolts are stretched or the head is crushed, and IMO, the latter is the proximate cause of "HG failure" in the vast majority of cases with this motor. My thought is that the head gets overheated, and because the 'TTY' bolts do not have enough bearing area the head is crushed against the bolt head and yields, eventually allowing coolant and exhaust leakage.

I worked on another member's engine recently and suggested that he check the torque on the head bolts. ( I suggested studs, but the budget would not allow that.) We set the wrench for 125 FP, which is low for these head bolts, and several took at least 15 or 20 degrees to get to torque; IIRC a couple went more than 30 degrees. That is a LOT of play. Bear in mind, this engine was down NOT for HG leakage issues; we checked this while we had the valve cover off for other work.

_________________
2005 kj CRD, samco, suncoast tc, provent, Kennedy lift pump, GDE ECO full torque, 2nd gen filter head, 245/70/16 a/t tires, mopar light bar, fumoto oil valve, OEM Skid Plates, ARB Front bumper and HD OME, tru cool LPD47391 40k GVW tranny cooler (stock cooler delete), FF Dynamics e-fan and shroud, rocker arms replaced, HDS2 190F thermostat.


Last edited by thermorex on Tue Apr 19, 2016 4:35 pm, edited 22 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rocker arm walkthrough - Removal and installation
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 1:56 am 
Offline
LOST Addict

Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 3:14 pm
Posts: 2294
Location: Sumter, SC
Dang, it seems I can't post images from Flickr (won't show up in the forum), what is the way to do it, imageshack?

_________________
2005 kj CRD, samco, suncoast tc, provent, Kennedy lift pump, GDE ECO full torque, 2nd gen filter head, 245/70/16 a/t tires, mopar light bar, fumoto oil valve, OEM Skid Plates, ARB Front bumper and HD OME, tru cool LPD47391 40k GVW tranny cooler (stock cooler delete), FF Dynamics e-fan and shroud, rocker arms replaced, HDS2 190F thermostat.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rocker arm walkthrough - Removal and installation
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 3:24 am 
Offline
Lifetime Member
Lifetime Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:16 pm
Posts: 3059
Location: Oxford, Connecticut
This is tech worthy material..... still can't get the pics to show up though

_________________
2006 Liberty Limited CRD, Deep Beryl Green, Yeti tune, Arp studs, new cams, rockers, lifters, TB. "Green Monster"
2005 Liberty Sport CRD, Deep Beryl Green, GDE Hot Tune, ARP studs. "Rocket"
1982 Fiat 124 Spider Convertible. "Fiona"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rocker arm walkthrough - Removal and installation
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 7:46 am 
Offline
Lifetime Member
Lifetime Member

Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:50 pm
Posts: 1195
Location: Central Indiana
Use photobucket, and check your IMG code.

_________________
Silver 2006 KJ 2.8L CRD Limited:
GDE ECO Tune / Fumoto Valve / E-Tecno GX3123 7v Glow Plugs / 2nd Gen Fuel Head / Mishimoto RED Hoses / Rockers/Lifters @ 114k / Hayden FC + 11 Blade Nylon / Sears P1 Battery / Transgo 45RFE-HD2 Reprogramming Kit / Timken Front Bearings


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rocker arm walkthrough - Removal and installation
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 9:48 am 
Offline
Lifetime Member
Lifetime Member

Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:15 am
Posts: 5431
Location: Tallahassee, Florida
Image shack also works. I'd suggest loading an image to the host and then copying the link for that image to the forum in the proper place in your original writeup (just select "edit" to revise that writeup); jump to another internet location and then back to see if the image loads correctly. I've noticed the uploaded images show several different link options and I'm not sure they all are usable. I think what you want to use is the "direct link"

_________________
Sold to LOST member my 05 Ltd, GDE Stg II turbo + TCM tune, SunCoast TC w. Transgo kit, Steiger window regulators, Samcos, Fumoto valve, 2nd gen filter head with Lub. Spec. bleeder, Hayden clutch & 11 blade fan, inverted spare, P-1 battery, BF Goodrich Long Trail TAs, Etecno1 glow plugs, timing belt at 50K miles/8 yrs


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rocker arm walkthrough - Removal and installation
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 10:45 am 
Offline
LOST Addict

Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 3:14 pm
Posts: 2294
Location: Sumter, SC
The actual images work with chrome browser (both mobile and pc) if right click on image icon (or hold touch on image on mobile) and then open image from popup menu. Haven't tried other browsers yet.

I will move them to image shack or photobucket and update the post, its quite anoying the way they are now, lol. Thanks a lot!

_________________
2005 kj CRD, samco, suncoast tc, provent, Kennedy lift pump, GDE ECO full torque, 2nd gen filter head, 245/70/16 a/t tires, mopar light bar, fumoto oil valve, OEM Skid Plates, ARB Front bumper and HD OME, tru cool LPD47391 40k GVW tranny cooler (stock cooler delete), FF Dynamics e-fan and shroud, rocker arms replaced, HDS2 190F thermostat.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rocker arm walkthrough - Removal and installation
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 10:55 am 
Offline
Lifetime Member
Lifetime Member

Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:15 am
Posts: 5431
Location: Tallahassee, Florida
Yes in FireFox I can right click on each "image" and select view image to open them in a different window but they won't appear directly in the forum post like they should. FYI at least in the past MS Internet Explorer won't display the images although they work just fine in the forum, when linked properly, with FireFox and Chrome

_________________
Sold to LOST member my 05 Ltd, GDE Stg II turbo + TCM tune, SunCoast TC w. Transgo kit, Steiger window regulators, Samcos, Fumoto valve, 2nd gen filter head with Lub. Spec. bleeder, Hayden clutch & 11 blade fan, inverted spare, P-1 battery, BF Goodrich Long Trail TAs, Etecno1 glow plugs, timing belt at 50K miles/8 yrs


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rocker arm walkthrough - Removal and installation
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 4:24 pm 
Offline
LOST Addict

Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 3:14 pm
Posts: 2294
Location: Sumter, SC
Images updated with imageshack, and they are visible in the thread.

_________________
2005 kj CRD, samco, suncoast tc, provent, Kennedy lift pump, GDE ECO full torque, 2nd gen filter head, 245/70/16 a/t tires, mopar light bar, fumoto oil valve, OEM Skid Plates, ARB Front bumper and HD OME, tru cool LPD47391 40k GVW tranny cooler (stock cooler delete), FF Dynamics e-fan and shroud, rocker arms replaced, HDS2 190F thermostat.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rocker arm walkthrough - Removal and installation
PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 1:30 am 
Offline
LOST Newbie

Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 12:16 am
Posts: 3
Location: Port Orchard Washington
Just curious about how long did this job take? And did you need an extra set of hands? Thanks for the write up it is very clear and helpful.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rocker arm walkthrough - Removal and installation
PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 11:58 am 
Offline
LOST Addict

Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 3:14 pm
Posts: 2294
Location: Sumter, SC
Joes06crd wrote:
Just curious about how long did this job take? And did you need an extra set of hands? Thanks for the write up it is very clear and helpful.


I didn't need any help, you can do everything by yourself. Obviously, if you have somebody to lay a hand, it would help, especially with cleaning the things you take apart. I did not "time" myself, but I started last Friday and finished this Thursday (no work on Saturday), working Wednesday for about 10 hours, the rest of days maybe about 5 hours on average/day, so that would make about 35-ish hours... Honestly, it is a pretty time involving job, even for an experienced mechanic, it is not hard by any means, but I think I spent 6 hours easy just cleaning the intake and intake elbow. I also spent few hours fixing the 4-way plastic return line that I broke, I had to make 2 T connectors (after I got the parts from NAPA) and replace the fuel pump return line plastic hose (that went in the 4-way return) with a 3/8 rubber fuel hose. that added easy about 2 hours.

Good luck, this is not hard to do, but plan to take you at least 25 hours, and that if you move fast or have some help.

_________________
2005 kj CRD, samco, suncoast tc, provent, Kennedy lift pump, GDE ECO full torque, 2nd gen filter head, 245/70/16 a/t tires, mopar light bar, fumoto oil valve, OEM Skid Plates, ARB Front bumper and HD OME, tru cool LPD47391 40k GVW tranny cooler (stock cooler delete), FF Dynamics e-fan and shroud, rocker arms replaced, HDS2 190F thermostat.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rocker arm walkthrough - Removal and installation
PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 1:52 pm 
Offline
Lifetime Member
Lifetime Member

Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:50 pm
Posts: 1195
Location: Central Indiana
Seeing as you bought your Liberty on the same Auto Mile I did in Bedford. Heh...

You might want to flush your coolant out, soon.

There are several complaints on various forums (Google it) that Water Wetter is specifically for Ethylene Glycol and Dexcool style coolants only, not our HOAT coolants, and there have been complaints that the Water Wetter additive and coolants have attacked and compromised the water pump gasket and head gaskets of HOAT coolant vehicles.

I personally would not want to risk my $8500 engine on $12 additive, even if all the other cool kids are doing it.

I would drain my radiator and go buy 2 gallons of G5 this weekend brother, sincerely.

Not worth the risk.

_________________
Silver 2006 KJ 2.8L CRD Limited:
GDE ECO Tune / Fumoto Valve / E-Tecno GX3123 7v Glow Plugs / 2nd Gen Fuel Head / Mishimoto RED Hoses / Rockers/Lifters @ 114k / Hayden FC + 11 Blade Nylon / Sears P1 Battery / Transgo 45RFE-HD2 Reprogramming Kit / Timken Front Bearings


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rocker arm walkthrough - Removal and installation
PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:28 pm 
Offline
LOST Addict

Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 3:14 pm
Posts: 2294
Location: Sumter, SC
Hexus wrote:
Seeing as you bought your Liberty on the same Auto Mile I did in Bedford. Heh...

You might want to flush your coolant out, soon.

There are several complaints on various forums (Google it) that Water Wetter is specifically for Ethylene Glycol and Dexcool style coolants only, not our HOAT coolants, and there have been complaints that the Water Wetter additive and coolants have attacked and compromised the water pump gasket and head gaskets of HOAT coolant vehicles.

I personally would not want to risk my $8500 engine on $12 additive, even if all the other cool kids are doing it.

I would drain my radiator and go buy 2 gallons of G5 this weekend brother, sincerely.

Not worth the risk.


This is why I hate products that are "good for any type" of whatever (coolant, oil additives, etc...). Lol. Honestly I had water wetter in the crd from 100-ish K, when I did a flush, the old water pump seemed fine (125-ish k), but to be honest, I wouldn't risk it... regarding G05, I stock 2 boxes anyways :SOMBRERO:.

Anybody knows a good "approved" antifreeze additive, to lower the temperature?

_________________
2005 kj CRD, samco, suncoast tc, provent, Kennedy lift pump, GDE ECO full torque, 2nd gen filter head, 245/70/16 a/t tires, mopar light bar, fumoto oil valve, OEM Skid Plates, ARB Front bumper and HD OME, tru cool LPD47391 40k GVW tranny cooler (stock cooler delete), FF Dynamics e-fan and shroud, rocker arms replaced, HDS2 190F thermostat.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rocker arm walkthrough - Removal and installation
PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 6:55 pm 
Offline
LOST Member

Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:34 pm
Posts: 346
Location: Sanford, MI
Our HOAT antifreeze is also ethylene glycol based. HOAT primarily refers to the anticorrosive additive package. The water wetter is just a surfactant package meant to lower surface tension of the water. This really only helps if a surface is dry and needs to be wetted. If already covered with a layer of liquid, a wetting agent isn't going to improve anything. For what it's worth, the HOAT and OAT additives are generally going to be surfactant-like in their nature as well.

...so using the water wetter probably isn't going to make a substantial difference in cooling. I don't know the chemical makeup, but I suspect it won't hurt anything either if used at the recommended dose.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rocker arm walkthrough - Removal and installation
PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 6:59 pm 
Offline
Lifetime Member
Lifetime Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:16 pm
Posts: 3059
Location: Oxford, Connecticut
thermorex wrote:
Anybody knows a good "approved" antifreeze additive, to lower the temperature?



DON'T mess with the cooling system.

Flush it, make sure that any obstructions are cleared and the flow is high.

Note: getting rid of air in the system via the opening on top of the radiator doesn't work.... I know, I lived it.
Air trapped in the heater core doesn't come out easily. Burping the system works but the engine has to run.

Open the drain valve at the bottom of the radiator, catch the coolant then refill via the expansion tank, air just flow out on it own via the expansion tank and every cavity gets filled.

_________________
2006 Liberty Limited CRD, Deep Beryl Green, Yeti tune, Arp studs, new cams, rockers, lifters, TB. "Green Monster"
2005 Liberty Sport CRD, Deep Beryl Green, GDE Hot Tune, ARP studs. "Rocket"
1982 Fiat 124 Spider Convertible. "Fiona"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rocker arm walkthrough - Removal and installation
PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 9:19 pm 
Offline
Lifetime Member
Lifetime Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 9:59 pm
Posts: 5171
Location: Austin, TX
We need to get this in the Tech section - great information

Thanks thermorex

_________________
2005 CRD
stuff
Skeptic quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 12:52 am 
Offline
LOST Addict

Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 3:14 pm
Posts: 2294
Location: Sumter, SC
Thanks ATXKJ, I'll make a post in the crd tech and link this topic, probably the easiest way...

_________________
2005 kj CRD, samco, suncoast tc, provent, Kennedy lift pump, GDE ECO full torque, 2nd gen filter head, 245/70/16 a/t tires, mopar light bar, fumoto oil valve, OEM Skid Plates, ARB Front bumper and HD OME, tru cool LPD47391 40k GVW tranny cooler (stock cooler delete), FF Dynamics e-fan and shroud, rocker arms replaced, HDS2 190F thermostat.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rocker arm walkthrough - Removal and installation
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:53 pm 
Offline
LOST Addict

Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 3:14 pm
Posts: 2294
Location: Sumter, SC
Added info about re-torque for cylinder head bolts to 125lbs/ft per suggestions from LMWatBullRun.

_________________
2005 kj CRD, samco, suncoast tc, provent, Kennedy lift pump, GDE ECO full torque, 2nd gen filter head, 245/70/16 a/t tires, mopar light bar, fumoto oil valve, OEM Skid Plates, ARB Front bumper and HD OME, tru cool LPD47391 40k GVW tranny cooler (stock cooler delete), FF Dynamics e-fan and shroud, rocker arms replaced, HDS2 190F thermostat.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rocker arm walkthrough - Removal and installation
PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 5:09 pm 
Offline
LOST Newbie

Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 11:51 pm
Posts: 8
I am ready to install the intake . Should i install the cam shaft timing pins before installing the intake?

_________________
06 Sport, Cumins in tank pump, Racor filter head, GDE tune, 5 volt steel glo plugs, Bilsteins, Euro t/c. 245/70 x 16 Toyo a/t tires. MAN Provent filter. EGR delete. Samco hoses


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rocker arm walkthrough - Removal and installation
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 8:45 pm 
Offline
LOST Addict

Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 3:14 pm
Posts: 2294
Location: Sumter, SC
Diesler wrote:
I am ready to install the intake . Should i install the cam shaft timing pins before installing the intake?


Sorry for the delay, I am not sure I understand the question, I think you mean the valve cover, correct? It's a little different with this engine since the intake is also the valve cover... If so, it is easier to have the cam locking pins installed before, so you won't have to chase the marking on the cams. The witness mark on the cams, where the sprockets mount, should be facing each other, so the exhaust cam has the witness mark at 3 o'clock and the admission at 9 oclock. Also, the engine needs to be properly timed, at 3 o'clock past TDC (the service manual should explain the procedure, you can download it from crd love the torque, Sam's NOOB guide thread).

Please post again if this doesn't answer your question.

_________________
2005 kj CRD, samco, suncoast tc, provent, Kennedy lift pump, GDE ECO full torque, 2nd gen filter head, 245/70/16 a/t tires, mopar light bar, fumoto oil valve, OEM Skid Plates, ARB Front bumper and HD OME, tru cool LPD47391 40k GVW tranny cooler (stock cooler delete), FF Dynamics e-fan and shroud, rocker arms replaced, HDS2 190F thermostat.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rocker arm walkthrough - Removal and installation
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:17 pm 
Offline
LOST Newbie

Joined: Wed May 05, 2010 8:40 am
Posts: 14
Location: Thurman, NY
thermorex wrote:
Then, when everything is in place, torque the cam sprockets per FMS specs:

image

image

Remove the pins from fly wheel and cams, test your timing for few complete turns and you’re good to go.
Make sure you let the air out before you start (air out the filter), and after few spins and if you didn’t forget to hook up a sensor of effed up something else the engine will start.


Are you suggesting to try starting it and let run for a few seconds (to make sure things are right) before finishing putting everything else back together?

_________________
Image
2005 Jeep Liberty CRD Sport - GDE Full Torque Eco-Tune and TCM tune.
1990 Jeep Wrangler - Some parts are still Jeep anyway.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 47 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group. Color scheme by ColorizeIt!
Logo by pixeldecals.com