Agreed. Our friends have a new 4Runner, and I'm impressed with it. I don't really care fore the long wheelbase though. A beefed up Highlander would be more my style.

Whatever happened to the high-tech mantra "smaller, faster, cheaper"? The Jeep folks seem to think they can't apply it to 4x4 technology. For example, the weight of the KJ is insane, giving it lousy fuel economy. It's like they've given up. Instead of pioneering, they're dumbing down. Sad.

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2003 Liberty Sport
Bright Silver Metallic
Daystar lift
General Tire Grabber AT2 245/70R16

I'd look out for those H3's...there CV axles seem pretty weak to me...watched one snap crackle POP in Louisiana when i was wheeling down there...I then went through a similar obstacle no sweat...granted it's about driver too, but that is just what it appeared like to me...

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Had 2005 KJ Rocky Mnt. Edition (destroyed)
Had 2006 KJ Sport 4x4
Have 2007 JK 4-dr Sahara 4x4 (tow package so stock 4.10s!!)
AEV 3.5" RS Lift; Schrockworks FR bumper and Warn 9.5ti winch; Cobra 75 CB; Rigid 50" LED light bar; Adventure Trailers (AT Overland) JK Kitchen setup in the cargo area.
Southern L.O.S.T. # 236487

Do you think they are weaker than the Dodge Nitro, errr I mean new Liberty's CVs?

I wouldn't know, haven't seen if the CV's in use on those rigs are the same as are currently being used on the Liberty...plus, like i said, it's about driver ability too on how well the equipment will last

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Had 2005 KJ Rocky Mnt. Edition (destroyed)
Had 2006 KJ Sport 4x4
Have 2007 JK 4-dr Sahara 4x4 (tow package so stock 4.10s!!)
AEV 3.5" RS Lift; Schrockworks FR bumper and Warn 9.5ti winch; Cobra 75 CB; Rigid 50" LED light bar; Adventure Trailers (AT Overland) JK Kitchen setup in the cargo area.
Southern L.O.S.T. # 236487

I would hold on to your curent jeeps, they could be collecters items. Diamler made it clear that it wasn't going to allow chrysler to drag it down. Benz quality has suffered since the merger, chrysler has 80,000 unsold units setting in storage from 06, the union won't allow concesions. The experts say chrysler won't exsist in another 10 years. Jeep allready doesn't exsist, thier just dodges with jeep grills. You have the last of the jeep liberty's, the new ones will be jeep nitro's. They don't have to give the compass to dodge, they allready have it, it's called a caliber. In fairness, they need the patroit for the rav-4, escape market and it will have an offroad package, better than anyone else in that class, but the compass, it's a fish out of water. 06 is offically the last year of a real jeep, the 07 kj's are just carry overs any way. But with all the jeeps around, I'll allways have one, just not a new one. Give me a willy's, cj, yj, tj, mj or xj, even a GC, "YEP"i'LL ALLWAYS HAVE A JEEP TO PLAY WITH.

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06 jeep liberty 4x4 65th aniver edition

04 ranger xlt sc 4x4, 4.0 sohc, 5-speed, gibson dual sport, cai, udp, bama tune, BFG's, and tru-trac

07 redfire mustang GT, 4.6 3V, 5-speed

Does anyone think that if we all emailed Jeep about the direction they are heading, that it would have any effect on future production lines? I'm afraid if DC keeps taking Jeep in this direction it may go the same way Plymouth did if someone, some group, doesn't step in to show them the errors in the their ways. Maybe we could combine efforts with other groups such as JU, ROC, etc...

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Pete
L.O.S.T. #PC050458
'04 Timberland Green Sport w/stuff...
'08 105th Anniversary H-D Dyna Low Rider
OH-58D Kiowa Warrior

I don't think it will work... all they are looking for is money... and serious 4x4 rigs are just not mainstream anymore... it's all about thinking that you live in the ghetto, pretending that you're a gangster, and wearing your baseball cap with the brim flat and the stickers still on it.

My next vehicle will be a Land Rover...

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<b>Brenden Gibson</b>

<b>2004 VW R32</b>
I know, it's not a Jeep... but I'm still showing the L.O.S.T. love!

I think it could be worth a try...?

Hasn't anyone seen the LOST pictures in the Jeep Liberty brochures at the dealerships? They endorse this site and the many LOST groups...I would think that with our combined efforts we could attempt to steer them in the right path. We can't just let them do away with the Jeep line...as they are already starting to do. I'm not saying it would work...but you'd think if they started getting enough emails and phone calls...they'd atleast consider listening to what we have to say.

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02' Frankenlifted White Sport on 31" TrXus M/Ts

89' 2 Dr. Khaki XJ- Waggy 44's, 4.88s, 35's, 3-link on 5.5" coils.

I think the only hope for Jeep really turning around is the bankruptcy sale Chrysler is going to have three years from now. I would bet you that every Jeeper out there would dig up money from under the mattress to buy Jeep stock and take it back (like Harley Davidson employees and fans did). I would also bet you Toyota would sell their left you know what to get Jeep from Chrysler... and they would probably do a better job with it than what is being done via the Compass, the Patriot and the associated "Trail Rated" booble head marketing crap.

The FJ may not be anyones cup of tea here, but its sales numbers and marketing strategy are an unmistakable slap across Jeep's face-- and Jeep does not even seem to realize it-- they are too busy making urban bobble head commercials. Bulemia here I come... gag. If Jeep needs to make cars to meet the EPA's CAFE requirements then they should bring back the Willy's trademark for them and not call them just Jeep. It would also not hurt to make the cars worth a crap to start with. The Compass is very underwhelming. It is like they were jealous of the Pontiac Aztek's title of the worse looking piece of crap ever made-- and decided to compete with it. The "rally" car concept got totally lost in the shuffle-- there is no way that fat pig could keep up with any Subaru in a rally race unless you put a JATO on it and entered the Darwin Award contest at the same time. But none of that matters when your company is driven by marketing and fairy pixie dust.

I suppose the new Jeep Patriot "Act" will come with a "Trail Rated" badge and 4 inches of ground clearance on 25 inch tires... and it will cost only $2000 dollars to get a 2 inch lift for it-- with no higher lift available... but the point will be moot because then the diff and transmission will explode... the weak motor would not power it and nothing would be covered under warranty. Business as usual at the new Jeep.

Jeep Compass/Patriot == your Jeep's resale value going down the tolliet.

Quoted for truth

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L.O.S.T. #31000

'03 KJ Freedom Edition - 4" JBA Coilover Lift w/ 32" Cooper STT PROs
'98 XJ Sport - 6" Full-Traction 4-Link Long Arm - Jeepspeed #2731 (Race Jeep)

DobermanRacing.com - Team Driver
Sponsored by UltRanger & CellTech

DCX does listen to it's customer base, it just takes a few years for it to trickle down to mean something. They can't reverse what's already in motion and they have invested time and money in this direction they are going now so it would take a bit to get anything new started. And yes, DCX only cares about money, but if they loose a lot of customers and fans, that is money to them.

And no, Jeep isn't going anywhere and any "expert" that says they will be gone in 10 years is full of crap. I'd also like to see some sort of backup that there are 80,000 units in storage. There is a large pool of leftovers, but no where near that many, lol. If the Jeep name survived the farce that was AMC, what DCX is doing will be a cakewalk. Did AMC make anything like the Rubicon? Better yet, did AMC really do anything new for Jeep that was worth anything? No, they basically copied the Kaiser era and their one saving grace is the XJ, but even then it took the buyout buy Chrysler to make that something worth owning. a unibody with a GM 2.8L V6? Give me a break. It's a wonder Chrysler could do anything with that. As for the demise of the 4.0L, blame the Government as it was emissions regulations that killed it. It was simply going to cost too much to redesign it to be more efficient and that cost would be passed on to the buyer. It is much better business sense to use an engine platform that was already in production and was modern enough to meet the EPAs new regs.

As far as Jeep leaving the Compass to Dodge, sorry, that is where they got it since it's nothing but a Caliper clone, as is the Patriot as they share the same platform. A friend of mine bought a 5 speed Compass today. It's like riding in a small box lined with the finest plastic. But it is selling to someone as we can't seem to keep them on the lot very long.

Let's face it, you are saying DCX is ruining Jeep, but DCX is looking at sales figures and is thinking the opposite. It will take a lot of noise to make them think otherwise, so if you are going to do something, make it big. An organization like LOST is just the thing, but you will have to hound Jeep to make it through to them. A similar thing happened with Dodge and the new Challenger. People raised such a stink about it that it's going into full production. Same with the Viper, and other concept models. DCX knows they have to build something the public wants, so they have to follow the trends that are out there. That's how we got the Rubicon, the Dodge Power Wagon, and sad to say, the Liberty. If suddenly the Wrangler stopped selling and everyone bought a Patriot, or a CRV, or any of the other mini SUV-ish vehicles then we would see no more off road Jeeps. The market is driven by the consumer and if the consumer decides it wants something different, all the manufacturers are going to follow suit. Jeep isn't going to read your minds, you have to let them know that you don't like what you see and you want a change and you are willing to back it up with money. Just my .02

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#074642

Friend, it's been in the news over the last couple of weeks, where have you been ? Just because you don't think chrysler is going anywhere, don't make it so, business is reality. It's not carved in stone, but the rumblings are there, "Yes", 80,000 unsold rams, suv's and comanders are setting in storage as of last week on fox and cnn. I don't make the news, I just report it. To the public, diamler deny's dumping chrysler, but insiders say it is an option and being descussed. The merger was a mistake and it's causing quality control problems at benz, resulting in recalls. I don't know why it would cause control problems for benz, but thats what thier saying. Thats why your seeing the like of a compass and patriot and more ride friendly jeeps, thier trying to go mainstream to stay a float. The hemie, the great savior has now become a liability with 3.00$ a gallon gas prices and thier trying to stick it in everything but the caliber, that may be next. The most popular car that chrysler had was the neon, thier cars aren't big sellers, they're trying to change that with new models, Chrysler's future is very much in dout at this point, as is ford and gm. To say chrysler is fine or not going anywhere in these trying times is more wishful thinking than reality. Jeep had the cj for over 30 years without much change, it was a nitch vehicle with it's own small customer base, that was good for us loyalist, but why jeep kept being sold through out it's history. DC needs it to be a mass consumer vehicle for it to be profitable, thats thier aim and as jeep loyalist, we don't like it, but thats the reality of the modern auto industry. Just buy older jeeps and you'll have a part of the real jeep history, future jeeps won't be jeeps as we have allways known them, it will be just a name. If jeep were to be bought by a smaller concern as sugested, they wouldn't have to sell a blue million and could build a real jeep, but as long as thier owned by any major car company, high sells figures will be the name of the game. The avanti and studebaker are still being built in small numbers for people that still want them by a small private companies, studebaker is out of Georgia. There is still a willy's overland company operating out of toledo ohio that makes jeep bobies, now if someone like that could get the rights to jeep with a few more investers, who knows.

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06 jeep liberty 4x4 65th aniver edition

04 ranger xlt sc 4x4, 4.0 sohc, 5-speed, gibson dual sport, cai, udp, bama tune, BFG's, and tru-trac

07 redfire mustang GT, 4.6 3V, 5-speed

Well I have to say that from the viewpoint of a small dealer in a small town, we aren't going anywhere. And I am still doubting that there are 80K units in the sales bank. As far as old Jeeps, I have a 1967 Kaiser-Jeep M715 1 1/4 ton military truck. It doesn't get anymore Jeep than that so I have the old stuff covered. You couldn't pay be to buy an old CJ. With their weak axles, they take too much work to make into a trail vehicle. Similar to the Liberty, it's useful but you have to know it's limitations. The Hemi is selling very well in both the cars and the trucks here. With the multi displacement system, the Hemi gets better mileage than most people think. If I had known that I would only have gotten 16MPG out of my Renegade, I would have bought a new Ram instead. Hell, diesel is higher than gas and we can't keep a Cummins on the lot for very long. I agree with the thought on Jeep going mainstream, it's been coming for a long time and just proves that a manufacturer will follow it's market. And while there may be a company operating under the Willys Overland name, the Jeep name is a trademark of DCX and they aren't going to let go of it anytime soon. I will say that the economy could be a lot better and that I will blame more on oil companies than anything, but compared to the Ford dealer on the corner opposite of our dealership and the GM guys down the road, we are doing quite well.

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#074642

I'm glad to hear your doing well, cause everybody isn't. At the dodge dealer where I use to work, the ram is setting on the lot on an average of 62 days, when it use to be 24. Diesels are moving well in all three brands. I agree, the oil companies have brought alot of heart ack to the american auto industry. My theory is, people will allways need trucks, the slump won't last. The yuppies might stop buying them and switch to crossovers or something. Real truck people will keep buying trucks, they need them. It doesn't help that we have to work under the uaw contracts and the japanese companies don't. I don't know what you were doing with your cj's that the axles weren't strong enough, the amc 20 had a 2 piece axle, change to a 1 piece and it's plenty strong and the dana 44, thats a given. I've wheeled stock cj's and cj3a's with no problems, I even use to wheel a 52 willy's jeep p/u with stock rough tread tires. We still use those old flat fenders every deer season back in W,Va where I'm from. The biggest tire I ever ran on a cj was a 30" and they took me whereever I wanted to go up in the mountains. I've found those old jeeps to be about indestructable and you can fix them with a piece of baling wire and duck tape ha ha. You may be into boulder climbing or some other extreme stuff, but I've had stock cj's in places where I wouldn't try and drag a chain. I love all jeeps, just not the new dodge jeeps. It really doesn't matter if jeep survives, if it turns into something we don't reconize anymore. No offense, but you need to check out the news more, you may be a round for a long time, but you may not be selling chrysler products. All 3 are in trouble, but the experts say that within 10 years there will only be 2 american car companies left and thier pick wasn't ford or gm to go. I'm doing my part to save 2 of them, I buy fords and jeeps. If you are a jeep dealer, you need to tell DC that they need a real motor in the new wrangler, that 3.9 isn't cutting it when folks were use to the lowend torque of the awesome 4.0, maybe a diesel or the new 4.0 would be much better. Good luck to you buddy and I wish you the best, who knows, if detroit gets thier act together, we may be able to save all 3, I truly hope so.

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06 jeep liberty 4x4 65th aniver edition

04 ranger xlt sc 4x4, 4.0 sohc, 5-speed, gibson dual sport, cai, udp, bama tune, BFG's, and tru-trac

07 redfire mustang GT, 4.6 3V, 5-speed

Just remember, when the KJ was first introduced and the Grand was given IFS, the cries of Jeep not being Jeep anymore was yelled out loud.

Now look at us as we do it also. I will agree with the fact that Jeep selling a "car" and making the Jeeps and Dodges look alike is horrible, but roll with it. When they give the Wrangler/Rubicon IFS and make a Dodge look like it, then make a lot of noise.

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New KJ Gear - Desert Armor Flak

2004 Renegade Light Khaki - 4" JBA Lift - Rock Lizard Products: Komodo Dragon Rear Bumper, Prototype Winch-mount Front Bumper, Super Skink Sliders - All J's Super Tranny Skid II - 31" Firestone Destination AT's on Moab wheels - Cobra 75W CB w/ stock Antenna mod

[b]Retired, US Military

Man, those posts were hard to read. Ever notice that return key to the right of the alphabet keys?


But seriously. If the customers don't ask for it, the companies won't build it. They will go with the masses, plain and simple. Less than 3% of ALL Jeep owners take their vehicle off road. Jeeps on a whole are selling better than they have been in the past. It's a shinning point for DCX as far as the Chrysler side is going.

With the Caliber, Compass, and Patriot being built off of the same platform, it takes combined sales of the three to get to the break even point. After that, creating another vehicle on the same platform is cheaper and more likely to happen. Grand Cherokee and the Commander sales combined could help that platform get to the break even point and then produce something like the Rescue.

What do they make at the Jeep plant?
Money.

Companies are in the business of making money.

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O||||||O '04 Renegade L.O.S.T. #DL050292 - Life Time
Carolina L.O.S.T. Board of Directors
*** Stuff ***
CRS-Rock Rails * Rusty's Lift * *MTR's * Husky Mats * The 'Grill' and Shelf

FRS/CB (ch 6)

There currently only are 2 American car companies. DaimlerChrysler is a German company. If you disagree I can have some of my friends at the Chrysler Tech Center in Auburn hills call you and talk to you about who runs the show. There are no questions about it there.

With that being the case, can we simply get a jeep branded unimog? That would please a lot of wheeling fans

I know that the germans gobbled up chrysler during thier merger, but chrysler is still refered to as one of the big 3 american car companies, why the media pertrays them that way, I have no clue. My guess is because the uaw has control of them like they do ford and gm. I can handle the germans owning jeep, but if it would of been the japanese, that would of been it for me and jeep ha ha. It's weird, the germans own jeep and the americans own land rover. Speaking of land rover, I wish they would bring the defender 90 back over here, it's rough and tough + small like a wrangler and also as long offroad heritage like jeep. I think the comander is on the right track as is the patriot for it's class, but the compass is hanging out there by it's self, the odd ball. I wheel ifs all the time, that doesn't bother me, but you at least need a little ground clearance to start with. Even the amc eagles set up high and were pretty rugged for a 4x4 car. The patriot is taking alot of heat , but jeep really needed it to compete in that class and with the offroad package, I think people may get surprized. It won't be no wrangler, but I bet it does well. I use to wheel my wife's 4x4 escape and it wasn't bad on light trails, the patriot should be alot better and srill get decent mpg. Throw a jeep p/u in the mix and jeep wuld have a pretty good line up, even with the compass for the yuppies.

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06 jeep liberty 4x4 65th aniver edition

04 ranger xlt sc 4x4, 4.0 sohc, 5-speed, gibson dual sport, cai, udp, bama tune, BFG's, and tru-trac

07 redfire mustang GT, 4.6 3V, 5-speed

What I find hard to believe is when 2 companies merge, quality drops? Reminds me of Sprint and Nextel. People love to hate Sprint, just like no matter how good domestic cars are, they can do no right. Now, people say Nextel service $ucks. Funny thing, Sprint didn't do a thing to make that happen. My point? Chrysler didn't walk into a merc shop and wave a stick to make things go to crap.. it happened without their help... jmo..

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2009 Liberty Sport (black)
1.5 OME lift from JBA
Full Skids
JCR Offroad-Stage 2 Rock Sliders
Weathertech mats
Weathertech wind guards
Mopar bug shield/Roof rails/crossmembers
Hankook dynapro A/T 255/65 16's
Hidden Hitch w/3ball-1hook rcvr (knee cap killer)