Say Goodbye to a Real "Trail-Rated" Liberty by ~2013

blackwidowkj06 · **Posted:** Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:31 am

dieselenthusiast wrote:

Yeah, I love my KJ too............ That's the problem, the Liberty is being transformed.

The way you're talking doesn't seem like it. :roll:

I would never own a JK or JKU. For one, I could never own one. Two, I'd much rather own a TJ with the 4.0L. I have a family member with a '97 Wrangler with 300k on the original motor and 5spd tranny.

Now I will not bash on the JK or JKU off-road capabilities because I've never taken one off-road before. However, I can say the KJ can keep up with some of those with built TJs and JKs running 35's. My Jeep Liberty made it through BlackMountain without getting stuck or breaking down; and I was only running a Daystar spacer lift, mopar skids and Trxus MTs (aired down to 20 psi). No lockers and no 4.10s. May of had to change my pants on the last obstacle but I had fun.

With all that said, the KJ is very capable off-road and nothing Chrsyler puts out will make me abandon my KJ. As soon as it gets paid off, my KJ will be going under durastic changes and will still be just as capable or more than capable.

I know one thing, if the big heads at corporate changes the Wrangler to IFS, there will be millions of Jeep Enthusiasts in a nice way "very upset". I'll be one of them.

Cobalt-60 · **Posted:** Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:46 am

dieselenthusiast wrote:

That's the driver's problem, not the JK's fault. Plus, a JK isn't much longer than a XJ, WJ, KJ, and KK, if any.

Wheelbases:
-----------
CJ7 = 93.3 in
YJ = 93.4 in
TJ = 93.4 in
LJ = 103.4 in
XJ = 101.4 in
ZJ = 105.6 in
WJ = 105.9 in.
KJ = 104.2 in
KK = 106.1 in
JK = 95.4 in
JK Unlimited = 116.0 in

The math is that the wheelbase of the current 4-door Wrangler is 10-15" longer than it's nearest Jeep 4-door predecessors (XJ, ZJ, WJ, KJ, and KK). First hand observation has shown to me that it does not get into or out of the tight places that the smaller vehicles can without jockeying back and forth. Add the additional almost 3" width of the JK Unlimited (73.9") compared to the KJ (71.1") and the JKU starts to look like a boat...

YMMV, but for me it is not a contest... Now if they had only given us a SFA from the start... ~sigh~

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:57 am

blackwidowkj06 wrote:

dieselenthusiast wrote:

Yeah, I love my KJ too............ That's the problem, the Liberty is being transformed.

The way you're talking doesn't seem like it. :roll:

That’s because you are missing the point. It’s important that you read comments within the context in which they are written. Let me reiterate one more time. The Liberty was a adequate transition from the XJ platform to the KJ/KK platform. However, Jeep appears to be making another “transition” (transformation) to a more car-like platform with less off-road ability. This is all speculation until we know for sure what the specifications for the new 2013 Liberty are. The aftermarket community barely recognizes the KJ and doesn’t recognize the KK. The only reason why your KJ is adequate for off-road use is because you modified it. People who own KK’s are that much more disadvantaged in the aftermarket arena. The new 2013 Liberty will probably be ignored completely.

I’m also saying that the KJ met my needs as an off-road enthusiast and someone who lives in mountainous terrain with substantial snow fall. This brings me back to my next point. If I were to buy a new Jeep for 2013/2014, I would go with the JK because it’s one of the few Jeeps left with substantial off-road capability and in a modest price point.

Cobalt-60 · **Posted:** Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:02 am

dieselenthusiast wrote:

[...]If I were to buy a new Jeep for 2013/2014, I would go with the JK because it’s one of the few Jeeps left with substantial off-road capability and in a modest price point.

Which is really the "sad" bottom line...

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:11 am

Cobolt-60 wrote:

dieselenthusiast wrote:

That's the driver's problem, not the JK's fault. Plus, a JK isn't much longer than a XJ, WJ, KJ, and KK, if any.

Wheelbases:
-----------
CJ7 = 93.3 in
YJ = 93.4 in
TJ = 93.4 in
LJ = 103.4 in
XJ = 101.4 in
ZJ = 105.6 in
WJ = 105.9 in.
KJ = 104.2 in
KK = 106.1 in
JK = 95.4 in
JK Unlimited = 116.0 in

The math is that the wheelbase of the current 4-door Wrangler is 10-15" longer than it's nearest Jeep 4-door predecessors (XJ, ZJ, WJ, KJ, and KK). First hand observation has shown to me that it does not get into or out of the tight places that the smaller vehicles can without jockeying back and forth. Add the additional almost 3" width of the JK Unlimited (73.9") compared to the KJ (71.1") and the JKU starts to look like a boat...

That's my point, longer wheelbases don't cause you to hit trees. The total length of the vehicle hinders the ability to maneuver. The JK isn't any longer, in fact, it is shorter than the KJ/KK.

Total Length of Jeep Liberty KJ: 174.7
Total length of Jeep Liberty KK 176.9
Total length of Jeep Wrangler Unlimited: 173.4

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:26 am

Cobolt-60 wrote:

dieselenthusiast wrote:

[...]If I were to buy a new Jeep for 2013/2014, I would go with the JK because it’s one of the few Jeeps left with substantial off-road capability and in a modest price point.

Which is really the "sad" bottom line...

Yes, now that we can agree on. :mrgreen:

We traded our 2005 LJ for a new 2006 Dodge Ram Diesel. My wife loved the LJ, but at that time we needed a tow rig. I promised her that I would get her another Wrangler. She likes the 4 door wrangler, so that's what we'll go with. For now, the XJ and KJ are perfect. I made a decision a few years ago that I wouldn't sell or trade anything else. My new philosophy is to buy what I love and keep what I got. :SOMBRERO:

Cobalt-60 · **Posted:** Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:30 am

dieselenthusiast wrote:

That's my point, longer wheelbases don't cause you to hit trees. The total length of the vehicle hinders the ability to maneuver. The JK isn't any longer, in fact, it is shorter than the KJ/KK.

Total Length of Jeep Liberty KJ: 174.7
Total length of Jeep Liberty KK 176.9
Total length of Jeep Wrangler Unlimited: 173.4

~Sigh~ You are not getting my point... Longer Wheelbase = Larger Turning Radius. Larger Turning Radius = Less Maneuverable.

Go and search the JK/JKU boards and read about the JKU owners complain about their rigs ability to maneuver in tight places and make U-Turns. Apparently there is a 5' difference (41' vs. 36') in turning radius between the JKU and the JK. For comparison, I just looked up the KJ online... apparently it has a 36' turning radius also.

You can keep saying that the total vehicle length is what makes the difference in maneuverability but again, what I have seen on the trail speaks different. The JKU is not as maneuverable as the KJ in my experience.

Cobalt-60 · **Posted:** Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:31 am

dieselenthusiast wrote:

My new philosophy is to buy what I love and keep what I got.

We can agree on this too...

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:46 am

Cobolt-60 wrote:

dieselenthusiast wrote:

That's my point, longer wheelbases don't cause you to hit trees. The total length of the vehicle hinders the ability to maneuver. The JK isn't any longer, in fact, it is shorter than the KJ/KK.

Total Length of Jeep Liberty KJ: 174.7
Total length of Jeep Liberty KK 176.9
Total length of Jeep Wrangler Unlimited: 173.4

~Sigh~ You are not getting my point... Longer Wheelbase = Larger Turning Radius. Larger Turning Radius = Less Maneuverable.

Go and search the JK/JKU boards and read about the JKU owners complain about their rigs ability to maneuver in tight places and make U-Turns. Apparently there is a 5' difference (41' vs. 36') in turning radius between the JKU and the JK. For comparison, I just looked up the KJ online... apparently it has a 36' turning radius also.

You can keep saying that the total vehicle length is what makes the difference in maneuverability but again, what I have seen on the trail speaks different. The JKU is not as maneuverable as the KJ in my experience.

Ah, you should have said that you were comparing the turning radius, lol. Yes, the 4 door JK has a wider turning radius than the KJ/KK. I think that is a minor issue that most people are willing to overlook when looking at a capable off-road rig.

Say Goodbye to a Real "Trail-Rated" Liberty by ~2013

Who is online