Jason, I don't like auto for many reasons....
I'll get into a few in no particular order:
1) Automatic trannies are much more expensive to fix than manual should they break.
2) My wife basically has a subaru WRX (Saab's version, same engine, same interior, different sheetmetal) and it's a DOG with the automatic tranny. I have driven turbocharged cars with manual transmissions and they respond much better if you know what gear to be in.
3) All I have ever owned has been manual (I'm from england, and that's all my family has ever owned)
4) I don't like how autos creep forward if they are in drive withthe foot off the brake. I was driving my former bosses truck and rolled into the person in front of me because it was an auto.
5) Automatics leave more room for the mall crawling multi-tasker in traffic... at least with a manual tranny, that person will be amused by driving over needing to be on the cel phone, doing make-up, picking his nose, etc....
6) Using gears to slow the vehicle down.... can't do that in an auto (at least not near as effectivley)
7) pulling away in the snow (2wd) you can control the vehicle much better using the clutch to modulate the torque to the wheels and drive away, versus relying on a transmission to do it for you.
Gas mileage is usually better in a manual tranny.
9) No problem (that some have experienced) reversing....
10) No ATF to have to monitor..... no tranny filter to mistake for an oil filter (Dad's partners son-in-law drained the tranny fluid, changed the tranny filter (replaced it with an oil filter) and put an extra 5 quarts of oil in the vehicle, blew the tranny and head gasket).
11) Less likely that someone will be able to jump in my vehicle and drive off with it (theft prevention)

That is a partial list of things off the top of my head, but when it comes down to it, I feel safer in a manual transmission because I have more means to control my vehicle than a loud pedal and a brake.
-Mark

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2008 VW Rabbit- 5-speed 5-cylinders
2000 TJ 4-cylinders 5-speed I'll let you know when I figure it out.
2006 Liberty SOLD.

all are valid points for on road but off road trust me auto is better
and as far as #6 I will guess that you have never drove a TJ/YJ with a 4.0 and the 3 speed auto with proper gears?
I know that mine will hold back as good as any with a 5 speed to the point that the tires start to slip

It comes down to the fact that all the manfactures are trying to produce what the public thinks they want. If you look at all the wranglers produced say over the last ten years how many are taken off the road even 10 % of the time? I know of several that have 80,000 to 100,000 miles on them and except for pulling over into the yard never are off road. More automatics are bought than manuals, everyone seems to want power windows/air/cd and big speakers to boom the music while out on the trail, (mall) I live in Toledo home of the JEEP, wranglers and Liberties are made here (and now the Nitro )I have a guy who lives up the street that was on the line to build the very first Liberty, he says mine looks like what they wanted to build but the main stream public would never buy it. Only reason that the Rubicon got the 245/75X16 was because they wanted a little bigger tire and that the 245/75 was 30 inches but it was 16 inches but they ended upgoing with it. PLUS any 4wd is built not bought! I have had Jeeps, Fords, GMs etc and always changed suspensions, etc. Everyone has what they think they must have in a vehicle so it comes down to a comprimise anyways

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MUDD'S MOTORSPORT'S We do IFS lift installs ,
03 OVERLAND EDITION /Kilby-Skidrow-Mopar-4XGuard skids/ 2.5 inch TOTAL CONTROL JBA coilovers -JBA Arms/MOABS-31 FALKEN WILDPEAK AT3W / 4.10's etc, 04 Kilimanjaro Edition loaded, plus 05 KJ limited

I don't know if it's *better*, but I agree completely with the preference for an auto trans offroad. For me anyhow, wheelin in the difficult stuff with a manual is very much harder than doing the same obstacles with an auto. For those of us that are not too good at using the brake and gas with one foot, auto is a much easier route. The first time I ever wheeled my KJ was at Jeep Jam back in '03. I was teased pretty good that day for havin the stinkiest Jeep. (burning clutch) I've always wondered in the back of my mind how much clutch lifespan I used up those two days

Knock on wood, the OD is at 80,000km and so far no signs of trouble....

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Steve

NOTE: I am not attacking you, just discussing your listed reasons.

DonkeyKong......I see a lot of those reasons involving bad experiences due to lack of experience or just being opinion and not fact.

#'s 1, 7, and 8 are the only +'s for Manual.

Let's stick with the KJ and not the Subaru or Saab so #2 is left out.

#3 - Just because that is all your family has ever owned, doesn't make the Auto less than Manual

# 4 - With a Manual, if you forget and try to start it in gear, it jumps forward and can hit people. So this one is negated.

# 5 - Two hour traffic jams and manuals suck. I'll take an auto. People still drive and talk on cell phones regardless of auto or manual. (Not saying I'm proud of this) but when I had a stick for 12 yrs, I still ate and drove. Sorry, no makeup here. Not a Metro-man.

#6 - Come to the mountains of Colorado and you will learn how to use Auto effectively to slow yourself down and keep it under control going down the mountains

#9 - Not sure what you are talking about here. Are you saying people with Manuals have issues with Reversing? No problem Reversing in my Auto.

#10 - My ex-wife tried to pour oil in through the dipstick hole on her Manual car. Some people should not be allowed to touch what's under the hood. Anyone that plans to off-road should get educated on basic engine mechanics/repair/maintenance before driving it. Education regardless of Auto or Manual. + for not having to deal with ATF temps though.

#11 - Doubtful.

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New KJ Gear - Desert Armor Flak

2004 Renegade Light Khaki - 4" JBA Lift - Rock Lizard Products: Komodo Dragon Rear Bumper, Prototype Winch-mount Front Bumper, Super Skink Sliders - All J's Super Tranny Skid II - 31" Firestone Destination AT's on Moab wheels - Cobra 75W CB w/ stock Antenna mod

[b]Retired, US Military

#11 really makes it easier to steal a stick shift. all the thug needs is power to the coil and a little push and Zoom Zoom.

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LOST #-169388
'79 CJ-5
32x11.50x15
304 V8

'08 Chevorlet HHR
Victory Red
Stock for now.

I just want to add:

A manual transmission is great for entertaining yourself on the daily drive to and from work, in traffic and on road trips.
I prefer the auto for towing, off roading but you know what they say about opinions and noses...


Just as another aside: DCX is trying to eliminate the use of manual transmissions in as many vehicles as they can.

I would disagree with DCX in doing that to the people. Manual and Auto's both have their +/-'s. Leave the personal choice to the people.

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02 Liberty Limited
Silver Outside & Taupe Inside
Heated Seats, Sunroof & Infinity speakers
USA Spec I-Pod adaptor, Mopar Sub, Garmin GPS
Tow Package, Select-Trac
Rock Rails, Tow Hooks

I live in Colorado too, and believe me, the manual is WAY better going up I70 or 285. The only thing an automatic has on a manual is for the unfortunate types who have a long commute in stop and go. Well, towing is better on the auto as well. But in my opinion, that's it. Lower initial cost, will outlast the 3.7(except the clutch of course), better fuel economy, it all adds up to a better system.....unless you are lazy.....
Manuals rule

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'06 3.7 sport 6 speed (long live manual tranny's)
tinted windows, cruise, midnight blue
Mopar roof rack
Royal Purple Synchromax in tranny
Royal Purple Maxgear in pumpkins
Full mopar skids, front diff collar
Future mods: Rock rails, B.F. Goodrich all terains. (In my dreams: Frankenlift)

from what I see you have the 6 speed
I would also guess that you have not or do not know of the problems with them as well
I know 3 people with them and all 3 have had to have a rebuild with less than 30K my KJ auto has 42k+ and my TJ has 40K+
both are fine I know a few folks with 150K+ on the same 3 speed auto and some KJ guys with the same on the 4 speed auto
also when it comes to highway auto is hands down safer I know I am wrong right?

drive down the road and slam on the breaks ,not knowing that you are going to, what happens? engine stalls when that happens you loose
all power wich includes steering and breaking
and to the better fuel economy 1 mile to the gallon is not good enough for me to say a manual is worth it

like I keep saying for my wheeling needs the auto is better in my TJ
I wheel it quite often and know that it is 10 times better than the old 5 speed I had I can go way slower and I beat the jeep up a lot less than with the manual even with the hand throttle

I knew I would rag some people off with my above post. I imagine for every 3 people with the 6 speed who need a rebuild, there will be 10 times as many rebuilt automatics. Of course I am speculating, and time will tell on my 6 speed. I like it. No, I love it.
One nice thing on the 6 speed, is that in 4Lo, if you stall out, you do not need to have the clutch depressed in order to restart. You can keep the left foot on the brake when straddling an object, fire the ignition, and off you crawl. Pretty nice feature really.
Why do all the hard core Rubicon drivers all own sticks? because they are better.......
To each his own. Sometimes I wish I had an auto too, but am very pleased as of now...

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'06 3.7 sport 6 speed (long live manual tranny's)
tinted windows, cruise, midnight blue
Mopar roof rack
Royal Purple Synchromax in tranny
Royal Purple Maxgear in pumpkins
Full mopar skids, front diff collar
Future mods: Rock rails, B.F. Goodrich all terains. (In my dreams: Frankenlift)

For me, for the most part, I have been happy with the Liberty. The 3.7L has enough power to get on the road, the Selec-Trac is awesome in storms, it can tow 5000 lbs, its comfortable, it can go offroad, mine's prelowered, has the good tranny, still looks new even though its five years old, and you get to be a part of the Jeep world. Also, at my age, girls tend to think its a luxury car

On the downside, it is not lift friendly, people still think of it as a chick car, the factory sound system isnt worth the money, and it has IFS. Also, the Dana 30 could be improved and skid plates and rocker protection should be standard. Oh, and the unibody thing is still kinda undecided with me.

As far as another, I REALLY like the new Wrangler Unlimiteds. Pretty much an open top Liberty with more modifications available already.

Oh, and another thing. You get a beefier transfer case with the part time manual as opposed to the part time transfer case with automatic tranny. It even holds about a pint more fluid. That has gotta be good.
I really cannot see how a manual would need to be overhauled before an automatic. They are so much simpler.Less moving parts=less wear,longer durability. No brainer.
They put those 6 speeds in Mercedes Benz(I don't know if that means anything, but it sounds good).
If you do own the auto, keep the fluid flushed every 2 years and make sure you use Mopar+4 or you are screwed.

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'06 3.7 sport 6 speed (long live manual tranny's)
tinted windows, cruise, midnight blue
Mopar roof rack
Royal Purple Synchromax in tranny
Royal Purple Maxgear in pumpkins
Full mopar skids, front diff collar
Future mods: Rock rails, B.F. Goodrich all terains. (In my dreams: Frankenlift)

Yeah so I think we are all pretty clear on your OPINION now.....

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Steve

Oh, o.k. it'sajeepthing. I guess you aren't supposed to give one's oppinion on this site... backatya

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'06 3.7 sport 6 speed (long live manual tranny's)
tinted windows, cruise, midnight blue
Mopar roof rack
Royal Purple Synchromax in tranny
Royal Purple Maxgear in pumpkins
Full mopar skids, front diff collar
Future mods: Rock rails, B.F. Goodrich all terains. (In my dreams: Frankenlift)

They also drive vehicles without roofs



A durability advantage of an auto is the lack of a clutch; one doesn't often hear of a torque converter failing....



Do you get an NV241 with the manual?


In the end, it's all personal preference and I'm sure both transmissions can be just as capable if the driver knows what he's doing.

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Jeep Liberty Wikibook
# cd /home/fuzzymuzzle.com

i think we picked up on it on your second and third statements

for me, stick is way fun, but a bit too tricky in some offroad stuff. For that reason, next time around it's an auto for sure for the off-roader. Now, give me a stick in a sports car, and I'm in heaven!!!!!!!

peace.

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Steve

To the part about durability:

The syncronizers on manual transmissions can wear out if you are not careful about how you shift so a manual transmission isn't perfect either.

I can understand that most people have a different preference about what they like and don't like, but if you took a poll of the general, car buying, public almost 75% of them would say they have an automatic transmission. That alone has to speak volumes for the progress that has been made to the torque multipling boxes that we used to know as a "slush box." Shoot, even the Jeep line up is dominated by the Automatic despite offering a manual in more platforms [JK, MK74/79 (compass / patriot) & KJ]. The Grand Cherokee and Commander are the only vehilces offered with an automatic only.

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02 Liberty Limited
Silver Outside & Taupe Inside
Heated Seats, Sunroof & Infinity speakers
USA Spec I-Pod adaptor, Mopar Sub, Garmin GPS
Tow Package, Select-Trac
Rock Rails, Tow Hooks

hooperswish
from your statement about "hardcore rubicon drivers" shows your lack of real trail experance
the reason that guys who buy rubicons buy a stick is the same reason you "love them" so much they just do not know what it is like out on a trail

I on the other hand I have "been there seen that"
I know guys with the REAL rock buggies and they are mostly going auto
dont beleve me see off topic and the video from the moris mt trip
V8's and autos or 4 bangers and 5 speed
one for the get up and over it with ease
the other for weight and still get up and over easy
you will also not one rubicon on the hard stuff

You can sing about how great the 6 speed is I know what I know and they are not that good
the 5 was by far better
and the 3 speed auto was the first auto put in to jeep wranglers and did not stop until '02

Wow this thread has definitly gotten VERY interesting over the last 2 pages!! Theres one heck of a debate going on with the Manual VS. Auto Tranny!

A note for Donkeykong....you wonder why Toyota made the auto standard and the manual an option on the FJ Cruiser (2K more..)...you answered that very question in your OWN post (about how Jeep has changed)....and as Tommudd stated....manufacturers are guna produce what the public wants (majority rules)....and MOST people are guna buy FJs in the auto version....and more than likely....MOST people will NEVER wheel them!! Just like you stated with how Jeep is starting to produce less offroad friendly vehicles and are catering to more ON-Road people (soccer moms, commuters, on and on) than offroad people. Jeep knows people wheel their rigs daily and Toyota knows people wheel the FJ as well as their other vehicles....but they are guna produce MORE of what they really SELL!!! Sorry to the hardcore offroad enthusiests (jason thompson being one namely person... )....and as HE even admits....they will make what the public buys. It's sad....but its the reason why Jeep is turning away from the more offroad-friendly rigs and producing the Patriot and Compass as others have stated too.

And another note......I LOVE MY KJ!!!

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02' Frankenlifted White Sport on 31" TrXus M/Ts

89' 2 Dr. Khaki XJ- Waggy 44's, 4.88s, 35's, 3-link on 5.5" coils.

As much as I love a Manual tranny, I must agree, for offroading an auto is the way to go. Now if you are just looking for more of a challenge then fine go with the manual, gear it low and it will make life much easier though.

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It may be that your only purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others.

06 CRD Sport
Built 5/11/06
Jeep Green
Rocklizard diff cover
V6 Airbox