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Red Top v. Yellow Top v. Odyssey batteries
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10550		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  AdamIsAdam [ Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:15 am ]
Post subject:  Red Top v. Yellow Top v. Odyssey batteries
OK, I hate to do it, but here goes:

Which battery to buy? Optima Red top? Yellow Top? blue top? or the Odyssey (specs here).

I very respected Jeeper told me he's known of failures with Optimas, and in his stockade of Jeeps, he runs that Odyssey. It's got a better warranty (4 years full replacement) and as best I can tell, it's on par with the Yellow top in terms of reserve power and CCA.

The Red top has a much better warranty and is much cheaper than the Yellow top.

I DO NOT have a winch or a big stereo. I just have the stock Renegade roof lights and the high output Renegade alternator (165 amp as I recall).

If money is no object, which is the BEST for these conditions:

- TONS of short trips as a daily driver
- lots of on/off on the trail, with ACC left on
- No winch or aftermarket stereo.

Any thoughts? Please feel free.

And yes, I did do a search on the topic and found misc comments and threads, but thought I'd start this thread in hopes of it becoming a good resource for others (sticky worthy?).

TIA.
Author:  Jeepjeepster [ Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:35 am ]
Post subject: 
Ive heard some talk of the red tops going dead and would not take charge. I was washing my jeep one day and ran my red top down and just boosted it and its been fine. This october it will be a year old and its doing great. The yellow top is more for dis-charge and re-charge(winch, stereo, stuff like that). Ive never heard of an Odyssey?
Author:  uvalax236 [ Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:39 am ]
Post subject: 
Yellow Top is if you need lots of CCA for a winch/stereo/lights etc. Go with the Red Top.
Author:  Cowcatcher [ Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:56 am ]
Post subject: 
Not sure this applies in your application but my diesel New Holland hay swather has had two redtops for the last six or more years and they don't get optimal use. They sit there 11 months of the year then get used. Once I left the ignition key on a couple of years ago and ran them dead. Charged them up and away they went. My '06 CRD came with a red top.

Before the swather I had not had an Optima before. Might not buy anyting else in the future unless someone can convince me otherwise.
Author:  AdamIsAdam [ Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:23 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well, I sent an email off to Optima thinking I'd get the straight scoop directly from the scooper.

I wrote:
"I'm planning to buy a new Optima battery for my 2003 Jeep Liberty Renegade. I use it off road a lot. (My stock battery cracked the case at the terminal.)  I do not use a winch, but do have some extra lighting.  I also do a huge amount of short-trip driving both on and off road.  My alternator is 165 amps.  I generally don't let the Jeep sit for more than a day or two without being driven."

They replied as follows:
"For your application of a 2003 Jeep Liberty Renegade, we recommend our Yellowtop D34."

Then just for kicks, I called their #800. They told me to go Red. I asked again just because I was starting to think I'd go Red for the better warranty and since I don't have a winch, and it's actually got a sligthly better CCA.

So I'm back to square one.

So tell me if I've got this right: my main concern is that it starts, even if I use the battery for some accessories for a while. It's got to start with lots of short trips, and lots of idling in between starts. This is what I see when I'm off road. Idle or close to it for a LONG time, then turn it off/on/off/on as we move the convoy up a few feet. etc.

For this it seems the Red is better suited, no?
Author:  AdamIsAdam [ Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
I just came across this chart. I think this about sums it up for me:

Image
Author:  Jeepjeepster [ Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
When you are out 4wheeling, why not just leave it running while you are out spotting someone or doing whatever you do? Whats the use in turning it on and off when just moving up and putting that much more wear and tear on the starter+battery? I would use syn oil though to help protect the engine since it does idle so much. If you get the red top Im sure it would be fine since its made for starting.
Author:  AdamIsAdam [ Tue Jul 18, 2006 2:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
I generally do leave it running, unless I think I'm going to be outside for a while. On some runs, we've got 20 Jeeps so an obstacle can take a while for everyone to clear it! And I'm, all the while, trying to film and take pics for jeeptales.com and run around after my 6 year old!

Also, I try to turn it off if I'm sitting on a steep hill since I don't like to idle for too long on a steep incline (lower oil pressure combined with all the oil on one side of the pan strikes me as a bad idea).

Synthetic might be a good idea. I've been running dino just so I can change it every 3k to satisfy my extended warranty's requirements. But that company went belly up, so that point is moot. Hmmm.
Author:  Jeepjeepster [ Tue Jul 18, 2006 2:28 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ahh, I guess it does take awhile to get 20 jeeps over a rock. :lol: The syn isnt that much more at walmart. I get the 5quart jug of mobil for $21 and a purone filter for $7 at advance. Not that much in my book and I still change it every 3k, but it takes me 6months to get that much. :wink:
Author:  AdamIsAdam [ Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yea, I get an oil change about every 2-3 months and don't usually have time to do it myself. So $29 at Jiffy is better than going 4 or 5k on old oil. At least that's what I keep telling myself.
Author:  Jeger [ Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
I have had experience with the red top in a case skid loader. That sucker took forever to get started yet the red top never slowed down. It was covered in a mix of oil, mud, diesel fuel, and hydraulic fluid constantly has been underwater several times. It gets bounced around very badly and it is the battery I took out to get other equipment started. I dont have any experience with the others but I am very impressed with the red top.
Author:  JFortier777 [ Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
The uses for these batteries are VERY straight forward.

Red - starter, TONS of starting power

Yellow - Dual Purpose, better than average starting power, and better than average A/Hr rating (time you can spend using things without the engine running.) Yellow tops are the battery of choice for almost all of high current accessory automotive applications.

Blue - Deep Cycle, Lots of A/Hr life. Not the greatest starter. Deffinetly not for extended high current draw but good for extended moderate current draw.


I have found that two yellow tops can handle 90% of excessive battery usage situations. A single yellow top kept my old Geo prism running and lively even with a 140A draw from my amp on top of the draw from the vehicle running. The thing had a 90A alternator

If you have big engine that really needs the juice to crank (almost any and every diesel) than you should deffinetly throw a red top in it (us gaser KJs really dont need the red top since our engine is so puny, but it wouldn't hurt for the winter I suppose)and then a yellow to use as a backup source of power if you get stuck somewhere for a while(or as a winch battery).

All brands of battery generally have these same battery divisions and they are basically going to act the same.

However. If you do get a different brand; make sure it is VIBRATION RESISTANT. Especially if you spend lots of time offroad.

For my situation an Optima is not an option, it is a requirement. The phenomenal vibration resistance is essential for preventing battery death by bass.

If you are just gonna get one, I would reccommend a yellow top just for its exception versatility in all situations.

Just remember, the bad booty red top is just that, but only for starting.
Author:  Jeepjeepster [ Tue Jul 18, 2006 6:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
You say our engine is puny? Id think it would take alot to turn an engine over with almost 10:1 compression wouldnt it? :?
Author:  JFortier777 [ Tue Jul 18, 2006 6:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
Jeepjeepster wrote:
You say our engine is puny? Id think it would take alot to turn an engine over with almost 10:1 compression wouldnt it? :?



Dont get me wrong, if the libertys didnt have an amazing engine they would be completely useless. I say puny only comparitively speaking; to say a much larger diesel engine with a starter that needs a F*&^ton of juice to turn. Powerwise, its not really so tough to crank our 3.7s

Since you had the gas compression ratio, would you happen to have one for the dearly departed 2.8 crd as well for comparison sake.
Author:  Jeepjeepster [ Tue Jul 18, 2006 6:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
I didnt mean anything by it, was just wondering. I may of been wrong on our 3.7 engine. I was looking for the diesel compression and cannot find it, but I think ours is 9.1:1. I read somewhere that is was 9.7:1 but cannot find it now.

Just found it, 17.5:1!!
Author:  phxtoad [ Tue Jul 18, 2006 6:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Red Top
I just had my Red Top die a in a big way. I've had it two years and it worked perfectly till failure. Once dead, it wouldn't take a charge. I couldn't even boost-start off my charger with it.

The Phoenix summertime tends to eat batteries - so I'm not real surprised.

TL
Author:  kolesy [ Tue Jul 18, 2006 7:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
I have had the same red top Optima for almost three years now. I had it in my passport before I got my KJ. I we=heeled the crap outta that passport and had a decently big stereo(1200W Fosgate amp 3 12"boston pros, 500W 4ch and components) in it and the red top never gave me a problem. When I traded the pasport in for the KJ I swapped batteries among other things and the battery now in its bout 8 month in the KJ is working still like new. For your use I would definitley go with the Red top. Price and performance hands down.
Author:  DaveKJ02 [ Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:20 pm ]
Post subject: 
Red Top. No winch. No probs.
Author:  AdamIsAdam [ Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Red Top
phxtoad wrote:
I just had my Red Top die a in a big way. I've had it two years and it worked perfectly till failure. Once dead, it wouldn't take a charge. I couldn't even boost-start off my charger with it.

The Phoenix summertime tends to eat batteries - so I'm not real surprised.

TL


3 year replacement warranty, and I believe another 3 years prorated. That's another reason I'm gonna go with Big Red.

Pep Boys has it for $129 in stock. I just finished changing/flushing my antifreeze (also changed both hoses and the thermostat while I was at it) so tomorrow, it's battery time. THEN AFTER THAT, IT'S LOCKER TIME! It's sitting here next to me begging to be installed!!!!
Author:  kolesy [ Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:57 am ]
Post subject: 
Git er done!
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