Brighter 500s

kolesy · **Posted:** Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:36 am

I was shopping around here looking fo rthe cheapest prices on stuff for the rig so i can do some mods when i get back and came across some 100 watt replacement bulbs for the hella 500s for only 5.95 a bulb. Just thought some might want to know. It says that a relay is required fo rthe 100w part number bulb though. When you order the hellas they come with a relay right?

http://www.roversnorth.com/RRD04/RRD04_ ... page14.htm

W3CSX · **Posted:** Wed Aug 09, 2006 8:59 am

Yes a relay is included. But, the one that comes with the kit is not rated for the extra current draw 100w lights will need. If you go with the bigger bulbs you will need to upgrade the relay.

Jason

W3CSX · **Posted:** Wed Aug 09, 2006 9:24 am

Something else to concider. What gauge wire is used? For 100w bulbs x2 over 5-6' from the battery to the relay and relay to the lights you will need 12ga wire. This might need to be upgraded too. Otherwise the wires could heat up causeing problems. The lights will not light up as bright as they could with lower gage wire.

Jason

Jeepjeepster · **Posted:** Wed Aug 09, 2006 11:00 am

Thats right W3CSX, Im not to sure what guage wire the kit came with though. The relay that comes with the kit is 30amps, so it can handle those just fine. Ive already bought me another one from advance though, just in case.

100watt/13V=7.6Ampsx2=15.2amps :wink:

Kugellager · **Posted:** Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:00 pm

See the thread about my lightbar in my signature (just click it in the sig). You want a single standard 30-amp relay for each light. I used 10 gauge wire from the battery to a fuse block and seperate 14 gauge wire/relay to each of my 4 lights rather than wiring them as sets. There are other wiring tips and photos in that thread as well.

The parts that come with a set of Hellas are rated for both 55w lights at the same time...You will need one relay for each light as the power draw for each 100w light is about the same as two 55w lights.

The 100w bulbs work great and put out tons of light. Just had my first real-world test running my 4x100w Hella 500's with a sunset run up Jones Pass here in Colorado. Amazing is all I can say.

John
];')

Jeepjeepster · **Posted:** Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:39 pm

Why do you think you need more than one relay Kugellager? You could of used one for your setup if it could handle the amps and you wanted to turn them all on at one time.

SavageSS27 · **Posted:** Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:47 pm

I've got 10ga. wire that runs from the relay to the lights, i'm still using the supplied fuse and the supplied relay with Hella's 100W bulbs, i haven't had a single issue yet. Would i get more light or something if i went to two relays?

Kugellager · **Posted:** Wed Aug 09, 2006 1:23 pm

Jeepjeepster wrote:

Why do you think you need more than one relay Kugellager? You could of used one for your setup if it could handle the amps and you wanted to turn them all on at one time.

The reasons I used 4 of the 30 amp instead of just one are 1) Each Hella light set comes with one relay for two 55w lights. Wanting to keep the same level of robustness as the original manufacturer I decided to use one relay for each 100w lamp. Each 100w lamp is roughly equivalent to two 55w lamps in series on the same circuit. 2) The 30-amp relays used in the Hella sets are some of the most common 12v relays available and generally the most economical to use. By basically adapting Hella's tested and engineered electrical circuit design I have virtually no worries with my adaptations. 3) My method makes my setup even more robust. If I used one high-amp relay and it burns out while wheeling I would have no overhead lights. The way mine is set if one relay (or fuse) burns out I still have three lights. The lamps are the big current draw so I have over-engineered it on the side of safety and reliability.

EDIT: One other thing I forgot to mention. Rating of electrical components are usually rated for the peak loads they are able to withstand. Peak loads are not the same as continuous loads. When planning a circuit in which you want it to handle a certain load you usually double, at the very least, the load-ratings of the components you are including in the circuits. Sure two 100w lamps on the 30 amp relay draws about 15 amps contiunous...but that is about the maximum continuous you would want to run...I'd rather spend a few extra dollars ($12 for the two extra relays) and have a system that will be safe and strong.

@SavageSS27 No you won't get more light but you will get a more robust system IMO.

John
];')

Jeepjeepster · **Posted:** Wed Aug 09, 2006 2:04 pm

I see, you just like to be prepared. :wink:

Makes complete sense though.

JFortier777 · **Posted:** Wed Aug 09, 2006 2:15 pm

I am fabbing up a mounting plate for my 4 Hellas right now, and have 4 100W bulbs on order (8000k crystal blue; to match my headlights).

I will be using two relays. (1 30A is fine for even 4 100W bulbs, though it’s a little too close for comfort for me.)

I need two anyway because I want to control the number of lights on at any given time.

I will be installing all 4 on my ARB, between the bull bar in front of the grill.

Two of the lights will be connected to the factory fog wiring; and the other two will be connected to the 30 amp relay and a wireless relay controller.

There won’t be any improvement in your output if you put a relay on every bulb. But it’s not like it will hurt either, at least with 4 relays, if you short out on something you only lose one light. (Although adding a couple fuses would do the exact same thing; and fuses are much cheaper than relays.) But hey, to each his own right?

Kugellager wrote:

EDIT: One other thing I forgot to mention. Rating of electrical components are usually rated for the peak loads they are able to withstand. Peak loads are not the same as continuous loads. When planning a circuit in which you want it to handle a certain load you usually double, at the very least, the load-ratings of the components you are including in the circuits. Sure two 100w lamps on the 30 amp relay draws about 15 amps contiunous...but that is about the maximum continuous you would want to run...I'd rather spend a few extra dollars ($12 for the two extra relays) and have a system that will be safe and strong.

John
];')

Edit: In response to the above edit by John.

The relay is made for 12V DC.
DC voltage (provided that it is coming from a battery or a regulator; which it is in your vehicle) does not alternate like AC (Alternating Current). So that means you will not have a fluctuating current as you would in an AC circuit, or a non regulated DC current. There will be minor fluctuations but they will be so small that measuring them would be an unnecessarily accurate undertaking.
Here’s a simple site with enough info on it to serve as a reference

Edit #2:

Also, in AC applications the RMS is 70.7% of the peak value.

Jeepjeepster · **Posted:** Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:32 pm

Were running lights here, not a winch with a motor. Lights do not have a peak load, when you turn them on, they are on. They do not have to start up...

JFortier777 · **Posted:** Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:44 pm

Jeepjeepster wrote:

Were running lights here, not a winch with a motor. Lights do not have a peak load, when you turn them on, they are on. They do not have to start up...

Read my post above yours.

A winch is also DC powered. Winches do not have a "peak" in the sense that you are saying either. The load varies, but its important not to confuse the terms. Peak means the apex of a wave in electrical terms. DC=no wave.

*Pokes jeepster in the eye*

kolesy · **Posted:** Wed Aug 09, 2006 5:23 pm

So basically from everyones response a I got this........ To be hands down safe run a 30 amp realy for each light with beefier wiring. Or to just use one relay for two lights and step up the wiring to 10-12 guage wire. I will be putting in three sets of the hellas, all on three seperate switches so if one does crap out i will still have four more working lights. Thanks for aall this info too by the way!

Jeepjeepster · **Posted:** Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:27 pm

JFortier777 wrote:

Jeepjeepster wrote:

Were running lights here, not a winch with a motor. Lights do not have a peak load, when you turn them on, they are on. They do not have to start up...

Read my post above yours.

A winch is also DC powered. Winches do not have a "peak" in the sense that you are saying either. The load varies, but its important not to confuse the terms. Peak means the apex of a wave in electrical terms. DC=no wave.

*Pokes jeepster in the eye*

You better not be poking my eye!!!

Well, thats was the same thing I was talking about. I was just agreeing with ya. A motor of any kind will still pull a bigger load when starting up.

*Pokes Miahs eye out*

W3CSX · **Posted:** Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:52 pm

How did you guys get 30amp with your lights? Mine only had a 20amp.

Jason

JFortier777 · **Posted:** Wed Aug 09, 2006 8:33 pm

W3CSX wrote:

How did you guys get 30amp with your lights? Mine only had a 20amp.

Jason

I bought mine used, they came with nothing but the actual lamps. I have 30A relays laying around because they are the most common type of relay.

Jeepjeepster wrote:

You better not be poking my eye!!!

Well, thats was the same thing I was talking about. I was just agreeing with ya. A motor of any kind will still pull a bigger load when starting up.

*Pokes Miahs eye out*

Just wanted to put emphasis on the AC/DC, (not the band), comparison there; so others would not be confused by the incorrect DC RMS statement.

*Removes Jeepsters index finger and places it in his shirt pocket*

kolesy wrote:

So basically from everyones response a I got this........ To be hands down safe run a 30 amp realy for each light with beefier wiring. Or to just use one relay for two lights and step up the wiring to 10-12 guage wire. I will be putting in three sets of the hellas, all on three seperate switches so if one does crap out i will still have four more working lights. Thanks for aall this info too by the way!

There is no safety gained by adding more relays. In fact there is no reason to; at all. At all.
It will not make your system more efficient, higher quality, or better in any way. It will not allow for better wiring, nor will it make your lights any brighter.
The only possible reason for having one relay per light would be the ability to turn off each individual light. (Which is fine if you want a switch for every light.)

Again, there is no gain of anything (except gaining clutter) by using more relays than you need.

So to reitterate:

Functional setup = 1 30A relay per set of, 100W or higher bulbs, or four 55W bulbs. 10-12AWG wiring all around (But not at the coil)

Safe setup = 1 30A relay per set of lights, and some 25A fuses to protect the relays. 10-12AWG wiring all around (except for the coil of course)

Super Ultra Mega safe setup= 25A fuse before relay, and a 10A fuse before each lamp. 10-12AWG wiring all around (Again, not for the coil)

Robust setup=750 relays per lamp. Plus an additional 43 relays to switch on the other relays. Also a 12THz laptop to monitor individual relay voltages and current. 0000 AWG wire all around. Minimum of 13 yellow top optima batteries, for added security and the ability to run the lights until the second coming of Christ.

Remember your light is literally the last thing that can possibly burn out in a short. The only thing you are protecting is the relay itself. You can connect the positive and negative leads from the lamp right to your battery and you will never burn out the bulb until it eventually reaches it's life expectancy. Relays are just high current switches, nothing more.

Jeepjeepster · **Posted:** Wed Aug 09, 2006 9:25 pm

Haha!!!!! I think Ill go for the Robust setup!!! :lol:

My hella light that I purchased at advance came with the 30 amp relay W3CSX. I thought it went bad one day and bought another relay, only to find out i had the switch wired wrong. The switch has a light in it and I had the power going through the ground for the light in the switch!! The buld finally burned out. :wink:

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