High Mileage Oil

Guest · **Posted:** Sat Apr 25, 2009 5:35 pm

I have over 150K on my kj and am thinking of going with a high mileage oil product. I was thinking of switching to synthetic but i seem to be consuming oil between oil changes. Last time i had to add a quart. There is no visible oil leak but the oil level does drop. I would think a synthetic would make this worse. That is why i am thinking high mileage oil which is supposed to condition the seals and help stop any leaks. Any one have any experience or thoughts on this?

CRD Joe · **Posted:** Sat Apr 25, 2009 5:52 pm

Synthetic oil is eons ahead of dino in its protection capabilities. With that said, if there is a leak someplace synthetic will find it! All that means is that
it's a leak you should fix!

Dont let people tell convince you not to switch to synthetic because it costs more. It does, but it also allows you to extend your drain intervals three times normal dino. Just remember to change your engine oil filter every 3000 miles. Nowadays filtration is the main concern. Synthetic oil last a very long time with proper filtration.

jeepkj02 · **Posted:** Sat Apr 25, 2009 6:44 pm

Get a good quality full syn oil (amsoil, valvoline, mobil 1) with a good filter and you should be good to go!

Guest · **Posted:** Sat Apr 25, 2009 6:57 pm

I agree that synthetic oil is a better quality oil. I use it in my new car. But my concern is for higher mileage vehicle like my kj that has used dino oil all its life and consumes oil regularly that the synthetic will cause an expensive oil leak somewhere.

CRD Joe · **Posted:** Sat Apr 25, 2009 7:45 pm

icarl wrote:

I agree that synthetic oil is a better quality oil. I use it in my new car. But my concern is for higher mileage vehicle like my kj that has used dino oil all its life and consumes oil regularly that the synthetic will cause an expensive oil leak somewhere.

As I said, if synthetic oil finds a leak it was there before you used synthetic oil. Fix the leak!

JeepinJarhead03 · **Posted:** Sat Apr 25, 2009 7:54 pm

icarl,

i had that same concern and discussed it with Tom and the others,

I believe tom mentioned that he's switched from dino to synth at over 150k before, i'd have to find the thread again because i'd hate to misquote tom

but i do distinctly remember him mentioning that with our engines (newer) it shouldn't cause such a "springing leak" as it could with older engines

i'll try to find the thread so that you can read it if you haven't already

edit:

here's that thread

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... 61&start=0

should try to find your "current consumption" problem imo first the best you can, maybe start with cleanin everything real good with some purple stuff degreaser

roughly how much do you think you're losing per change interval??

JJsTJ · **Posted:** Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:13 pm

No filtration concern if you run a high quality oil filter like the Amsoil Ea series filters. No worries running them 10K+ miles.

InCommando · **Posted:** Sun Apr 26, 2009 11:02 pm

Chrysler 2.7 V6's have a chain/tensioner set-up like our 3.7's. The 2.7 is a time bomb, or at least they were before they were alledgedly "improved" a few years ago. Anyhoo, researching the death of my '00 2.7 in '04, many people had their 2.7's fail after switching to syn oil. For me, the engine lasted about 1,000 miles after I switched from Castrol dino oil to full syn at around 70K. There was nothing scientific about it, but my experiences & the things I read from others made me believe that the oil change had a bearing on my 2.7's failure.

Guest · **Posted:** Mon Apr 27, 2009 2:16 am

You're saying that synthetic oil caused your engine to fail? I thought usually engine failure is from having not enough oil in the engine. Perhaps you had a leak and your oil was low. I can't see how synthetic would cause it to fail. After all synthetic is supposed to lubricate things better than dino oil.

JJsTJ · **Posted:** Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:35 am

InCommando wrote:

Chrysler 2.7 V6's have a chain/tensioner set-up like our 3.7's. The 2.7 is a time bomb, or at least they were before they were alledgedly "improved" a few years ago. Anyhoo, researching the death of my '00 2.7 in '04, many people had their 2.7's fail after switching to syn oil. For me, the engine lasted about 1,000 miles after I switched from Castrol dino oil to full syn at around 70K. There was nothing scientific about it, but my experiences & the things I read from others made me believe that the oil change had a bearing on my 2.7's failure.

And how many failed w/out switching oil types?

Regardless, (based on some reading about it) sounds like their failures were related to sludge build up in the engine and a small pick up tube in the oiling system leading to lack of oil to moving parts. Could be that any oil change w/ a high detergent oil could have caused loosening of the sludge and further clogging of a small pick up tube.

So how big is the 3.7L's pick up tube/screen? Anyone had one apart and taken pics?

sleeve84028 · **Posted:** Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:27 am

Not to derail this thread even further, but from my own personal experiece my 2001 Sebring with the 2.7L does just fine when the oil changes are performed at regular 3000 mile intervals. I have, obviously, a long way to go on the car (only 50K miles) before I can say for sure that the Sludge can be avoided with proper care for your vehicle.

InCommando · **Posted:** Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:04 am

Yeah, you would think the reguler oil changes would prevent it, but you would be wrong.

People swear by the 3K interval despite it having been debunked as a tool of the dealerships & oil industry to sell more oil changes. But it is your money and your car, so do what you want. I am sure that changing it every 500 miles would be even better for you. I will follow the service pattern listed for my usage of my vehicle.

There are many anectdotal stories of higher mileage engines failing after switching to synthetic oil. Believe them or not, that it is up to you. That is why I included that the info was not scientific. But I would bet the title to my jeep that not all of those failure involved folks switching from an inferior or off-brand dino oil. The sludge issue is also not the only issue as many of the failures started as chain tensioner issues that caused catastrophic valvetrain damage that killed pistons, etc... immediately after a switch to syn oil and not lack of oil pressure due to what i can only assume people are assuming was caused by sludge blockages. Low oil pressure is indicated by a warning light. The light never came on until after failure in my and many other cases.

Best of luck on the 2.7 if it you ever decide to start driving it. :lol:

j/k. But yeah, at 50K you are not yet in the mileage range of the issues. My advice, and take it for what it is worth, it to replace the chain & tensioners by 75K miles.

ICarl, engine failure is caused by any number of factors, with low oil levels only being one of them. Everything from poor design to mechanical failures to overheating kills engines. No, engine failure is not caused by one condition. But in your own statement where you say that only leaks/low oil levels cause engine failures, there are plenty of claims that syn. oil will be more apt to leak in high mileage engines than dino oil, creating what you say is the one reason engines fail. Please keep in mind that most of the claims about syn. oil's performance come from people wanting to sell you expensive syn. oil.

Most testing that i have seen indicates that regular changes with dino oil will provide the same protection. I don't know for sure either way as so much of each side seems to be propaganda and sales promos. If switching to syn. oil is a danger to engines unless you know 100% of its service history, why aren't the syn & "high detergent" oil folks saying " For God's sake, don't use our junk unless you know your oil was changed every 3,000 miles for the life of the car or it will kill your engine!!!"

A big caution for me on syn. oil claims is that ,except in a very few cases where they want owners to feel "special", the manufacturers do not require or suggest it. On initial install, they would pass the cost on to the buyer. The owners would pay for any increased cost in servicing the engine. So, if syn. oil was markedly better and would reduce the manufacturers' risks of warranty claims by its "suprior" performance, why aren't they using it/requiring its use when it would cost the manufacturer nothing to do so? Curious, huh?

The OP wanted opinions on the switch to syn oil on high mileage vehicles. I provided a cautionary tale from personal experience ( not internet rumor) and tied it to real world examples instead of " they say" or " you always hear" BS. Let the OP decide how much weight, if any, to give it.

Guest · **Posted:** Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:20 am

sleeve84028 wrote:

Not to derail this thread even further, but from my own personal experiece my 2001 Sebring with the 2.7L does just fine when the oil changes are performed at regular 3000 mile intervals. I have, obviously, a long way to go on the car (only 50K miles) before I can say for sure that the Sludge can be avoided with proper care for your vehicle.

Just FYI, ThunderbirdJunkie's brother's 2.7 in his 2001 Intrepid puked at 56,000.

HAVE FUN ON YOUR NEXT TWO OIL CHANGES :lol:

ATF is your friend;)

Guest · **Posted:** Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:52 pm

I looked online and couldn't find any synthetic oil related 2.7l engine failures. They all seem to recommend switching to synthetic oil and changing every 3000 miles for the intrepid.

I haven't heard of many failures of the 3.7L engine yet. I haven't heard of any failures after switching to syn on the 3.7L. So i'm not too concerned about that. I was only concerned about leaks.

i was thinking about trying amsoil 5w30. but then there's also mobile 1 high mileage 10w30 i'm also considering. If i was to switch to amsoil they say to do an engine flush first to try and get any sludge out. What do you guys recommend for that?

JJsTJ · **Posted:** Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:13 pm

Amsoil has there own engine flush you can use before switching over.
Info here> http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/aef.aspx

Not a whole lot to gain at this point from switching over but won't hurt either. My XJ got switched to Amsoil 10w30 at around 150K miles and it runs smoother and quieter since switching, currently at just over 186K.

L.O. · **Posted:** Fri May 01, 2009 10:48 pm

Dunno, my friends: "Debunked" or not I have 269,472 miles on my XJ's original engine with the dino oil changed every 3000 miles. My advice is the old line: if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

belvedere · **Posted:** Sat May 02, 2009 9:07 am

Most of the HM oils are very high quality oils, and are synthetic blends. I wouldn't hesitate to use one.

As for not running syn in a 2.7: some of the remanufacturers have a specific condition in their warranty for the 2.7. They won't warranty it unless a syn oil is used.

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Sat May 02, 2009 9:53 pm

Every engine is different and every engine abuses oil differently. And some engines are more dirty than others. I agree with Incommando that changing your dino oil every 1,000 miles is better than changing your oil every 3,000 miles. If you look at an oil analysis, it will blow your mind at the difference. Example: I run Amsoil 5W30 in my Dodge Cummins with a Amsoil full-flow and by-pass filter. My oil analysis shows that my oil is more stable and cleaner than the guy who runs Rotella T 15W40 at 3,000 mile intervals with Mopar filter and the same year of truck and relatively close in mileage. So in my situation, running synthetic is cheaper, more efficient, and better for the engine than someone who is running Rotella. I have a 13 quart capacity so oil does add up.

Icarl, if you are having to add a quart of oil between intervals, and you don’t see any visible leaks, then most likely you are burning oil, which means that your engine is seeing some wear. I don’t think switching to synthetic is going to hurt anything, but I don’t think it’s going to help either. I’m 100% for a good synthetic oil, (I personally wouldn’t run anything but Amsoil) but it’s best to start the switch over early, not after 150,000 miles.

Also, just because the bottle says “synthetic” doesn’t mean it’s better oil. I’ve seen oil analysis and lab tests that show certain dino oils out perform some synthetic oils.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Sat May 02, 2009 11:39 pm

InCommando wrote:

Yeah, you would think the reguler oil changes would prevent it, but you would be wrong.

People swear by the 3K interval despite it having been debunked as a tool of the dealerships & oil industry to sell more oil changes. But it is your money and your car, so do what you want. I am sure that changing it every 500 miles would be even better for you. I will follow the service pattern listed for my usage of my vehicle.

There are many anectdotal stories of higher mileage engines failing after switching to synthetic oil. Believe them or not, that it is up to you. That is why I included that the info was not scientific. But I would bet the title to my jeep that not all of those failure involved folks switching from an inferior or off-brand dino oil. The sludge issue is also not the only issue as many of the failures started as chain tensioner issues that caused catastrophic valvetrain damage that killed pistons, etc... immediately after a switch to syn oil and not lack of oil pressure due to what i can only assume people are assuming was caused by sludge blockages. Low oil pressure is indicated by a warning light. The light never came on until after failure in my and many other cases.

Best of luck on the 2.7 if it you ever decide to start driving it. :lol:

j/k. But yeah, at 50K you are not yet in the mileage range of the issues. My advice, and take it for what it is worth, it to replace the chain & tensioners by 75K miles.

ICarl, engine failure is caused by any number of factors, with low oil levels only being one of them. Everything from poor design to mechanical failures to overheating kills engines. No, engine failure is not caused by one condition. But in your own statement where you say that only leaks/low oil levels cause engine failures, there are plenty of claims that syn. oil will be more apt to leak in high mileage engines than dino oil, creating what you say is the one reason engines fail. Please keep in mind that most of the claims about syn. oil's performance come from people wanting to sell you expensive syn. oil.

Most testing that i have seen indicates that regular changes with dino oil will provide the same protection. I don't know for sure either way as so much of each side seems to be propaganda and sales promos. If switching to syn. oil is a danger to engines unless you know 100% of its service history, why aren't the syn & "high detergent" oil folks saying " For God's sake, don't use our junk unless you know your oil was changed every 3,000 miles for the life of the car or it will kill your engine!!!"

A big caution for me on syn. oil claims is that ,except in a very few cases where they want owners to feel "special", the manufacturers do not require or suggest it. On initial install, they would pass the cost on to the buyer. The owners would pay for any increased cost in servicing the engine. So, if syn. oil was markedly better and would reduce the manufacturers' risks of warranty claims by its "suprior" performance, why aren't they using it/requiring its use when it would cost the manufacturer nothing to do so? Curious, huh?

The OP wanted opinions on the switch to syn oil on high mileage vehicles. I provided a cautionary tale from personal experience ( not internet rumor) and tied it to real world examples instead of " they say" or " you always hear" BS. Let the OP decide how much weight, if any, to give it.

There are many vehicles that come with synthetic oil right from the factory,the Liberty CRD being one of them,along with Corvettes,Vipers,and even the older('90's models) Dakota's where Mobil1 factory filled.

The "when should I change my oil" topic can go on and on and on and on,it's personal choice.I change mine every 3000miles due to I am rather hard on my KJ and that does break down the oil faster,my KJ bounces off the rev limiter more times in one day then most will in there lifetime.The eco nazi's saying to longer on oil changes are trying to cause your engine damage,used oil if disposed of properly does not go to waste(used as heating oil in many places) and longer oil change levels does not decrease the demand for oil,the places that use and depend on used oil for other purposes will demand more when you use less,no less of a demand there.

Guest · **Posted:** Sat May 02, 2009 11:49 pm

Thanks for all your suggestions. I put some semi-synthetic blend i had in for now and we'll see how that goes. I'm thinking i'll probably try synthetic mobil 1 10w30 high mileage oil next. Right now i'm changing my tranny fluid. Then i'm going to get the stripped tc bolt out and swap the tc fluids.

this is kind of an interesting read about synthetics although its from 2005.

High Mileage Oil

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