is steering wheel resistance in 4wd part time normal?

MadDog81 · **Posted:** Sat Dec 02, 2006 3:56 pm

Hey Guys- new to 4 wheelin- I was on off wet/dry pavement yesterday in 4wd part time- on dry pave, it seemed like their was resistance from the wheels as i would make a 90 degree turn. The resistance would actually stop the vehicle when i would idle through the turn.

On the other hand- in 8"of snow that hit Chicago the other day- I tooled right through it like a snowmobile when I was in 4 wheel high- What a great feeling that was! All these low rider camaros and fast and furious rides were sitting there with their wheels spinning- Ha what a great time I had :!:

The Liberty is an absolute blast!

Skyjump136 · **Joined:** Tue Jul 05, 2005 6:50 pm **Posts:** 1633

NEVER EVER use your 4 part time or 4 Low on dry pavement. Yes, what you describe is usual and is called "binding." It is very tough on your driveline. Get out the ole owners manual and get acquainted with the proper use of 4 wheel drive. The only time you would run 4 wheel drive on dry pavement is if your transfer case has a 4 Full Time option.

BTW, welcome to LOST!

bugnout · **Posted:** Sat Dec 02, 2006 5:19 pm

Check out this link for an explanation of how your drive line works.

http://www.jeep.com/4x4/

Jeepjeepster · **Posted:** Sat Dec 02, 2006 7:09 pm

Skyjump136 wrote:

NEVER EVER use your 4 part time or 4 Low on dry pavement. Yes, what you describe is usual and is called "binding." It is very tough on your driveline. Get out the ole owners manual and get acquainted with the proper use of 4 wheel drive. The only time you would run 4 wheel drive on dry pavement is if your transfer case has a 4 Full Time option.

BTW, welcome to L.O.S.T.!

x2. You should never use part-time on any surface that does not allow the wheels to slip.. :wink:

MadDog81 · **Posted:** Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:16 pm

Guys, I appreciate the advice- you are a most helpful bunch of folks. Glad I came across your forum! I knew something was not right.....
Thanks again!

PitViper · **Posted:** Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:42 pm

Now that you know not to... Now you should know why you feel the resistance.

I'm assuming you understand the reason for differentials. (Because the inside, and out side wheels, turn at different speeds when making a turn.)

The same thing applies to your transfer case. In this case you have a part time transfer case that locks the front and rear wheels together. (No differential so the wheels are binding because they can't turn at different speeds)

Thats the difference between Part Time 4wd and Full Time 4 wheel drive. (Full time has a transfer case differential)

jason thompson · **Posted:** Sun Dec 03, 2006 12:35 am

This is always a funny topic for me to read cause every body talks like you should NEVER run in 4lo or 4hi for that matter if your wheels cant slip when you turn
By that logic when you are wheeling out in say Moab and you are going up a very steep hill all 4 wheels are getting traction and then right at the top you have to turn you are going to put it in 2wd to turn? I think not

Yes I know that you are not susposed to drive down the highway in 4hi but I dont think it is so world ending
Also if one front whel can turn faster than the other and one rear wheel can turn faster than the other that is enough diffirential to negate the terror that most fear about driving on pavement for few seconds in 4wd

Look my ARB's in my TJ do the same thing only left to right not front to back but if I am out wheeling and the trail is dry and I needed to lock up to make it to one point I am NOT going to unlock just to turn ,the tires will slip and chirp along if they need to

Good common sense will go along way

MadDog81 · **Posted:** Sun Dec 03, 2006 2:37 am

Thanks Pit Viper- and Jason- I hear you on the common sense issue-
I thoroughly understand the differential concept I just didn't know how the jeep 4wd system actually operated. I do now. Furthermore, I am very glad to hear to realize- based on the Jeep animation that Bugnout shared, that when I am in 4 wheel drive-I am truly turning 4 wheels! I found this out in the snow at stop lights- I left 2 wheel drive vehicles in my rear view mirror as my Libby took me through 8 inches of snow like it wasn't even there! What a great feeling that was! Thanks for the info sharing guys- it's truly helpful.

Jeepjeepster · **Posted:** Sun Dec 03, 2006 3:14 am

jason thompson wrote:

This is always a funny topic for me to read cause every body talks like you should NEVER run in 4lo or 4hi for that matter if your wheels cant slip when you turn
By that logic when you are wheeling out in say Moab and you are going up a very steep hill all 4 wheels are getting traction and then right at the top you have to turn you are going to put it in 2wd to turn? I think not

Yes I know that you are not susposed to drive down the highway in 4hi but I dont think it is so world ending
Also if one front whel can turn faster than the other and one rear wheel can turn faster than the other that is enough diffirential to negate the terror that most fear about driving on pavement for few seconds in 4wd

Look my ARB's in my TJ do the same thing only left to right not front to back but if I am out wheeling and the trail is dry and I needed to lock up to make it to one point I am NOT going to unlock just to turn ,the tires will slip and chirp along if they need to

Good common sense will go along way

I see your point. And ive even had a personal conversation with a Lost member on this.. Wheeling on rocks puts alot more strain on your drive train than wheeling in say mud or sand. Many people do break axles and drive lines out in moab.. :wink:

Having a locker in the rear axle is different than a locker in the tcase. The ENTIRE drivetrain is NOT under strain when the rear locker is locked.. Its just the rear axles.. And it does more more wear and tear on the bearings and tires.. Keep you jeep in part time its entire life and get back to me on how things go. I bet your cv joints and u-joints will need replacing soon.. :wink:

Jeger · **Posted:** Sun Dec 03, 2006 7:19 am

If you are running in 4wd on a dry road and take a long sweeping turn at 40MPH it can build up some tension very quickly, and you will never have better, more even traction than you do with all 4 wheels than on dry pavement, that tension has to go somewhere. You dont want it to come out the side of your transfer case.

When you are offroad, even on rocks, the amount of traction available to each wheel will vary more than on pavement and allow a wheel to scrub in a turn, relieving driveline wind up (usually) before some part of your drivetrain does.

What causes this whole problem is that while turning the front wheels travel a different track then the back wheels, just look at you tracks in the dirt. This means the front driveshaft turns more than the back driveshaft unless you are driving perfectly straight. If your transfer case is locked it is easy to see where things become a problem.

jason thompson · **Posted:** Sun Dec 03, 2006 12:18 pm

Look guys I under stand what you are saying but I think the extreme way it is said is realy blowing it out the water
yes part time any thing down the highway is bad part time off the trail and turn on to the highway going at a reasonable speed to get the wheels straight
is not bad

jason thompson · **Posted:** Sun Dec 03, 2006 12:21 pm

MadDog81 wrote:

Thanks Pit Viper- and Jason- I hear you on the common sense issue-
I thoroughly understand the differential concept I just didn't know how the jeep 4wd system actually operated. I do now. Furthermore, I am very glad to hear to realize- based on the Jeep animation that Bugnout shared, that when I am in 4 wheel drive-I am truly turning 4 wheels! I found this out in the snow at stop lights- I left 2 wheel drive vehicles in my rear view mirror as my Libby took me through 8 inches of snow like it wasn't even there! What a great feeling that was! Thanks for the info sharing guys- it's truly helpful.

just a quick correction you are not turning 4 wheels but realy only 2 ,1 front ,1 rear
Unless you get lockers front and rear then you will 1 day see what I call "1 wheel peel"
1 wheel on the ground doing no good cause the other is in the air and of no help to you

Skyjump136 · **Joined:** Tue Jul 05, 2005 6:50 pm **Posts:** 1633

jason thompson wrote:

Look guys I under stand what you are saying but I think the extreme way it is said is realy blowing it out the water
yes part time any thing down the highway is bad part time off the trail and turn on to the highway going at a reasonable speed to get the wheels straight
is not bad

Actually, I'd rather be going straight down the highway in 4 part time than turning on to it at any speed. It is the turning that creates problems. And I agree with the above...rocks create more opportunities for relieving tension than does a flat piece of blacktop or cement.

MadDog81 · **Posted:** Sun Dec 03, 2006 2:42 pm

MadDog81 wrote:
Thanks Pit Viper- and Jason- I hear you on the common sense issue-
I thoroughly understand the differential concept I just didn't know how the jeep 4wd system actually operated. I do now. Furthermore, I am very glad to hear to realize- based on the Jeep animation that Bugnout shared, that when I am in 4 wheel drive-I am truly turning 4 wheels! I found this out in the snow at stop lights- I left 2 wheel drive vehicles in my rear view mirror as my Libby took me through 8 inches of snow like it wasn't even there! What a great feeling that was! Thanks for the info sharing guys- it's truly helpful.

just a quick correction you are not turning 4 wheels but realy only 2 ,1 front ,1 rear
Unless you get lockers front and rear then you will 1 day see what I call "1 wheel peel"
1 wheel on the ground doing no good cause the other is in the air and of no help to you

HMMMM- I guess the Jeep animation is a bit misleading then- I suppose if the left front loses traction the right fron then kicks in? http://www.jeep.com/4x4/

Jeepjeepster · **Posted:** Sun Dec 03, 2006 2:52 pm

MadDog81 wrote:

MadDog81 wrote:
Thanks Pit Viper- and Jason- I hear you on the common sense issue-
I thoroughly understand the differential concept I just didn't know how the jeep 4wd system actually operated. I do now. Furthermore, I am very glad to hear to realize- based on the Jeep animation that Bugnout shared, that when I am in 4 wheel drive-I am truly turning 4 wheels! I found this out in the snow at stop lights- I left 2 wheel drive vehicles in my rear view mirror as my Libby took me through 8 inches of snow like it wasn't even there! What a great feeling that was! Thanks for the info sharing guys- it's truly helpful.

just a quick correction you are not turning 4 wheels but realy only 2 ,1 front ,1 rear
Unless you get lockers front and rear then you will 1 day see what I call "1 wheel peel"
1 wheel on the ground doing no good cause the other is in the air and of no help to you

HMMMM- I guess the Jeep animation is a bit misleading then- I suppose if the left front loses traction the right fron then kicks in? http://www.jeep.com/4x4/

nope.. If you had an 06-07 liberty that would happen. They have traction control which will brake the wheel that is slipping. In your case, with no Limited slips or lockers, if one front wheel is spinning and one back, your stuck.. :twisted:

A limited slip rear diff was a option on all libbys through 05. There should be a tag on the right side of your rear diff which tells you what you have.. :wink:

MadDog81 · **Posted:** Sun Dec 03, 2006 3:10 pm

Good call- What is the basic designation - do you know?- I have the Libby Sport- so I'm thinking it has just the basic stuff....

Thanks

sqliberty · **Joined:** Sun Mar 19, 2006 3:08 pm **Posts:** 207

I know what maddog is talking about, I too have a sport and also was driving in the snow we had in Hoffman Estates Friday. Even in the snow I felt every thing bind up when turning the wheel to park. If it wasn't in 4wd I most likely would not have been able to park where I did without spinning the tires or getting stuck. When it binds up it feels like 4 Low torque.

MadDog81 · **Posted:** Sun Dec 03, 2006 3:59 pm

Awesome Truck SQ! I basically want to build mine up to your standard-excellent job.

MadDog81 · **Posted:** Sun Dec 03, 2006 3:59 pm

Awesome Truck SQ! I basically want to build mine up to your standard-excellent job.

Jeger · **Posted:** Sun Dec 03, 2006 9:31 pm

jason thompson wrote:

Look guys I under stand what you are saying but I think the extreme way it is said is realy blowing it out the water
yes part time any thing down the highway is bad part time off the trail and turn on to the highway going at a reasonable speed to get the wheels straight
is not bad

Im not giving you a hard time or anything Jason. I have left the tracker in 4 wheel a few times and nothing broke but it did not want to come out of 4wheel easily. I would say for the most part, if all of a sudden you realize you forgot to switch out of 4wheel, and something isnt already broke, then you did no harm. Just dont make a habit of it.

is steering wheel resistance in 4wd part time normal?

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