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 Post subject: Put me at ease please. (I think I started something else...)
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:03 pm 
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Ok, I live in the land of 6-7 month winters, w/ roads being cruddy for most of that if not into spring as well. Last winter wasn't really that bad so I only ran in Full-time 4WD a handful of times. This year on the other hand, has been pretty bad so I have lived in Full-time. I know the manual/website/ect all say that F/t is fine for all-year and all road condition use but what are the effects, if any, on the transfer-case, ect by using F/t all the time? I'm still getting use to my Jeep and I want to have her around for awhile so give me your thoughts on running F/t all winter? and what precautions I should be using? Thanks folks.

**edit** As I mentioned in a later post of this thread I felt left out for not having ESP/ABS. So I'm now inquiring w/ a couple dealers on a '06 Renegade. We will see how it all goes as I still owe a bit on my '05 and there is about a $7-8k (cdn) price jump from my Sport to the Renny. I don't want a huge increase in my pymts. But the real reason for me to trade up is my daughter's safety. We're going to be up north for awhile and I need to know she's safe and I totally beleive in this ESP from the vids and this boards testimonials. Wish me luck guys.

-Mike

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Last edited by mikekj_cda on Sat Dec 09, 2006 6:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:09 pm 
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You should have no concerns running in fulltime all the time. All the AWD rigs do, the systems are the same. I'd be looking at the hard use mainteance schedule though.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:16 pm 
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If its constantly bad, use part time, like say during a storm.

There is a clutch for full time mode that allows slippage between the front and rear diffs to prevent binding when there is no slippage at the wheels. I fried that clutch in the transfer case of my 2000 Sierra, from then on with that truck, and now my Jeep I use Part Time when the roads are consistantly bad and full time say the day after a storm when your transitioning from dry, to wet to snowy, slippery roads.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:38 pm 
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I would say if you need it, be safe and use it, as action said part time mode might help save some wear, but if you cant remember to switch back to full time when necessary then it might not be worth it. Like others said keep the fluids changed, and use a good quality fluid when you do.

What kind of a clutch do we have for full time mode? I cant seem to find that out.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 5:33 pm 
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action wrote:
If its constantly bad, use part time, like say during a storm.

There is a clutch for full time mode that allows slippage between the front and rear diffs to prevent binding when there is no slippage at the wheels. I fried that clutch in the transfer case of my 2000 Sierra, from then on with that truck, and now my Jeep I use Part Time when the roads are consistantly bad and full time say the day after a storm when your transitioning from dry, to wet to snowy, slippery roads.


There is no clutch inside the KJ t-case. Just a open differential.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 5:38 pm 
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That is what I thought, but wasnt sure, thanks Eddo!

So run it in full time all you want, basically all of those parts are spinning anyhow, you are just putting power to them when you put it in full time.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:08 pm 
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action wrote:
If its constantly bad, use part time, like say during a storm.

There is a clutch for full time mode that allows slippage between the front and rear diffs to prevent binding when there is no slippage at the wheels. I fried that clutch in the transfer case of my 2000 Sierra, from then on with that truck, and now my Jeep I use Part Time when the roads are consistantly bad and full time say the day after a storm when your transitioning from dry, to wet to snowy, slippery roads.


The sierra has automatic 4wd not full time.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 7:09 pm 
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Thanks guys. I'm always a little timid to go into part-time unless I know for sure I won't be touching pavement. So if I`m not in dirt/deep snow/sand, ect, I'm in full-time so I don't have to worry.

Now what about aggressive starts while in full-time? Not that I drag race my libby but sometimes I like to punch it. As long as I don't jack-rabbit all the time, again stress on the t-case, ect, should be alright?

-M

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 7:33 pm 
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mikekj_cda wrote:
Thanks guys. I'm always a little timid to go into part-time unless I know for sure I won't be touching pavement. So if I`m not in dirt/deep snow/sand, ect, I'm in full-time so I don't have to worry.

Now what about aggressive starts while in full-time? Not that I drag race my libby but sometimes I like to punch it. As long as I don't jack-rabbit all the time, again stress on the t-case, ect, should be alright?

-M


Should be fine.. Thats why its called fulltime.. :wink:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 9:20 pm 
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I've used full-time for three winters already. Usually I just put it into full-time when the snow starts to fly and take it out in spring. Unless there's a warm spell and the highway dries off for a while. Then I just use 2wd. The limited amount of off-roading I do is usually in summer, and that's when I get to use 4-hi and 4-lo.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 10:51 pm 
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snowsport wrote:
I've used full-time for three winters already. Usually I just put it into full-time when the snow starts to fly and take it out in spring. Unless there's a warm spell and the highway dries off for a while. Then I just use 2wd. The limited amount of off-roading I do is usually in summer, and that's when I get to use 4-hi and 4-lo.


That's what I thought. I just needed to hear it from all of you, thanks. Last winter a friend of mine kept telling me to keep it in 2wd unless a situation came up where it required 4wd. :shock: My thinking was/is, by then it's to late. Avoid getting stuck or losing traction althought by being in full-time. This friend is also a Toyota freak so I take what he says w/ a grain of salt, no offence to Toyota fans :) . I guess this is how you do it w/ a manually engaged 4wd system.

Now here's another question for the floor. What would have better overall control, 4wd no ESP or ABS vs. 2wd w/ ABS and ESP? Say in winter w/ slick conditions? I feel gipped for not having ESP/ABS on my '05 but it came std on '06 models. I should just trade mine in for an '06 Renny :? .

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Exhaust, lift, rims painted black, Duralined, roof basket, and Renny light bar to come!
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Last edited by mikekj_cda on Thu Dec 07, 2006 11:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 10:56 pm 
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By the way, I'm sure you've discovered a great part about owning a Liberty in a cold climate: they have unbelievable heaters... :D


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 11:08 pm 
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snowsport wrote:
By the way, I'm sure you've discovered a great part about owning a Liberty in a cold climate: they have unbelievable heaters... :D


She heat's up pretty quick. I also had the dealer install after-market heating units in my cloth buckets. There 2 settings, low which feels HOT and high which I like to refer to as the "surface of the Sun" :twisted: . You grow to love it when driving to work in at -35C. Honestly though, I have to investigate and see if there is a control or way to regulate the heat b/c after 5 -7 mins on high and a swear I can smell pork cooking :D

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Exhaust, lift, rims painted black, Duralined, roof basket, and Renny light bar to come!
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 11:40 pm 
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mikekj_cda wrote:
snowsport wrote:
Now here's another question for the floor. What would have better overall control, 4wd no ESP or ABS vs. 2wd w/ ABS and ESP? Say in winter w/ slick conditions? I feel gipped for not having ESP/ABS on my '05 but it came std on '06 models. I should just trade mine in for an '06 Renny :? .


ABS will save your bacon on the ice. That is all there is too it. It stinks on dirt roads though. The ESP... I would say from what I have felt of it it will also help you on the ice, almost as much as the ABS. 4wd helps you get across snow/mud where you would loose traction-- it does nothing to help you on a sheet of ice as all tires will have equal traction-- near 0. I drove though South Dakota, Minnesota and Wyoming for several winters with little econo box cars-- and never used chains as we were not allowed to use them (fleet vehicles). The cars I drove with ABS proved ABS's worth to me in the wintery conditions (I drove through many, many blizzards). ABS is of far more worth by itself than AWD/ 4x4 without it-- because it can keep you under control on some nasty stuff and still allow you to stop. It does you no good to get moving if you cannot stop or control where you vehicle is headed. You simply cannot pump a break fast enough to get the maximum amount of stoppage without lockup like ABS can. Unintentional wheel lockup on ice means your screwed and something very bad is about to happen. The ESP, well I have not had the opporunity to drive in winter with that, but I bet it is almost as good as the ABS.

As for 4wd-- I can't tell you how many 4x4's ended up in the ditch during blizzards. Most of them rolled. When you see pictures of a car in a ditch in the winter news-- do you usually see the rubber down? Yes. What about 4x4 SUV's? NO-- they are usually on their side or rolled. Our '4x4''s have a much higher roll over risk than any car-- and on ice ESP may save your butt. A 4x4 in a cross wind on ice will do nothing for you. It might help you get out of the ditch you get blown into, if you don't roll over first. A vehicle with less of a profile probably would not have been blown off the road to begin with.

Now when it comes to bucking snow drifts and crossing nasty spots-- weight (for momentum), traction, and ground clearance are then your friends and a 4x4 SUV will help you. If you only have 4x2-- then you tend to make up for it the best you can with a little more speed into the drift. I would also say that 4x2 with ESP or traction control is better than 4x4 without here as well. You will usually find that one side of the vehicle (left or right) has traction, and one does not. It is rare that the front half will have traction and not the rear (unless you slid your bum off the road). So the ESP again wins this, as it gives you what you really need-- side to side traction.

Of course, what I just said may not be popular, but I am certain for myself that it is so. And yes this means that if you really want a vehicle for travelling on the road in the winter-- you are best off with a Subaru AWD or some other station wagon (hate to say it because I am otherwise no fan of it... Jeep Compass uggg...). A higher center of gravity vehicle such as the Liberty is much more likely to roll over and get blown about-- so you must go slower. The good thing about the Liberty is it is heavy-- the heavier a vehicle, that less likely it is to get blown around. Those little cute ute's are just death-- high, skinny, and light. I can't think of a worse combo.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 12:15 am 
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I can see where esp would help you keep control. But I could never make it in the snow in 2wd with traction control. 4wd is a must for me in the snow.. :?

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:29 am 
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"Now here's another question for the floor. What would have better overall control, 4wd no ESP or ABS vs. 2wd w/ ABS and ESP? Say in winter w/ slick conditions? I feel gipped for not having ESP/ABS on my '05 but it came std on '06 models. I should just trade mine in for an '06 Renny ."


Pablo, part of the ESP system is ABS. So a 4wd with ESP is going to be the absolute best.

Didnt 05's have ABS, or was that an option?

Anyhow what you are asking is a tough question. Traction control will get you a long way especially if you are not dragging anything through the snow. But I still believe 4wd is going to keep you moving in many more situations. The stopping and control part is where the ESP & ABS is going to save your butt. I would say on ice I wold go with the ESP/ABS just for the safety factor, For really deep snow where you are going slow anyhow 4wd wins out.

Double check, I think you could have ABS already.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:27 am 
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[quote="Eddo
There is no clutch inside the KJ t-case. Just a open differential.[/quote]

Cool, so how does the transfer case distribute power to the front and rear ends with an open center diff??? By the logic of the way an open diff works in a front or rear end, if the front had less traction then the rear, most of the engine power would go to the front end.


BTW: I understand that the Sierra is labled Auto 4x4, its really just differnt words describing the same thing.


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