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Thinking of buying a Libby
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16853		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  CJ10chris [ Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Thinking of buying a Libby
Well guys & gals I've been lurking around this site soaking up as much info about Liberty's as I can jam into my brain. I'm really interested in buying one but I've been hesitant or you could even say scared. I've owned almost every model of jeep's from CJ2A's, 3B's, FSJ, CJ5/6/7's, TJ, YJ, MJ, ZJ and two CJ-10's, but my favorite of them all is the XJ. Just now thinking back I've owned 14 of them..... and I can not think of one time that one of the XJ's have let me down other than just being neglected or worn out. I only own 2 XJ's right now, a 96 with 377,000 miles and a 98 with 147,000 both with 4.0's and they still run great. I guess some of my problem is until I found this site there was no source of information out there about KJ's except the magazines. I only get JP because it is the only "Jeep Only" mag out there and to honest I have newer renewed my subscription after the first year and they keep coming (5 years worth :lol: ). Anyway, I would like to know from you people how you would rate it compared to an XJ. I understand there might be some biased towards the KJ here but would like some feedback from people who have perhaps owned both... modified or not. I like to wheel but I don't do rock crawling. I would like to know about durability, common problems (like the BJ's.... yes I searched), what to look for and what to avoid (years, motors, options... whatever). Design wise I like the Libby alot more than the XJ, more headroom and not so dated look. So before I go and plop down some money I'm looking for some advise from some people who actually own KJ's and not the fluff from people who don't (read every jeep site).
Thanks in advance,
Chris
Author:  JJsTJ [ Tue Jan 23, 2007 2:23 pm ]
Post subject: 
Welcome!
I own a 94 XJ and two KJ's. I have wheeled all three of them on pretty much the exact same trails or similar and I say they have performed as expected or better. My XJ is lifted 6" and on 33's and while I can take some tougher lines, My 2.5" lifted, 30.5" tire shod KJ's still get me to the end of the trail. I will say that there is more challenge/fun in wheeling the KJ's on the tough trails. My biggest concern with the KJ's is the D30A aluminum front diff housing that has been a problem for a few on this forum including me. Ever since breaking one, I have been more cautious on the lines I choose where in the XJ it is pretty much point & shoot. The ball joints should also be watched closely even if replaced w/ the greasable Moogs. BTW, on the diff, I know of many Hard wheeled KJ's that still haven't experienced a front diff failure so I would say that overall it is a fairly isolated issue.

OVerall, I wouldn't hesitate to buy a KJ if your wheeling is easy to moderate and you plan to keep it that way but if you are looking to step up to the even tougher trails (those that require the ground clearance provided by 33's/35's), it is going to take more seriou$ mod$ to get the KJ up to the task and survive Vs. an XJ, TJ, etc.

I also question if the KJ can make it to the 300,000 mile mark and still pass smog, run well, etc. The 377K on your 96 is outstanding! :shock:
Author:  sleeve84028 [ Tue Jan 23, 2007 2:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thinking of buying a Libby
CJ10chris wrote:
Anyway, I would like to know from you people how you would rate it compared to an XJ.


I can't help on this one - the Liberty is my first Jeep. Although, as a daily driver, it has never let me down or left me stranded somewhere


CJ10chris wrote:
I would like to know about durability, common problems (like the BJ's.... yes I searched)


Common problems:

Multifunction switch that controls the interior lights wears out - causing flickering
Valve Springs are sub-par and can break after 100K+ miles of use
Alternator failures around that same time
Radiator cracks (on the plastic tank)
Battery terminal corrodes (on the mopar battery at least)
There are issues of different tensioner pulley diameters - it's hard to figure out which one you have
Filler neck (oil fill) allows for a great deal of condinsation to build up
Breaks are decent - but warpage of the front rotors is a common result of panic stops
My transmission "Bangs" into second when I lift the throttle coming out of first (pet peve)
Beware the CRD models IMO
Gas mileage can suffer if you live in a Major metropolitan area (observation)
Squeaky front sway bar (observation)
you can hear the rear blinker from the drivers seat while you wait at a light (observation)
Back seats don't fold truely flat (pet peve)



CJ10chris wrote:
what to look for and what to avoid (years, motors, options... whatever).



2002 & early 2003 models -

Different power steering calibration
Taller Springs (but just barely)
Truck Transmission
No Sirus Satellite radio
No Ipod interface

mid 2003 models
Lower springs (stock)
revised PS calibration to increase assistance at low speeds
Different transmission
um....?

2004+
Sirius is an option
Remote start is an option
I-pod compatible

2005+ facelifted vehicles


Things I love:

Heated seats
Steering wheel controls
ABS
Select Trac TC
Smooth Ride even at 55K miles


CJ10chris wrote:
Design wise I like the Libby alot more than the XJ, more headroom and not so dated look. So before I go and plop down some money I'm looking for some advise from some people who actually own KJ's and not the fluff from people who don't (read every jeep site).
Thanks in advance,
Chris


Good luck with your choice
Author:  Jeepjeepster [ Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
sleeve84028, what do you mean by "you can hear the rear blinker from the drivers seat while you wait at a light?" :?
Author:  sleeve84028 [ Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:37 pm ]
Post subject: 
In my Liberty - I can hear the popping of the signal flasher from the front seat.. And I'm not talking about the clicking noise that comes from the front of the dash.
Author:  Tokyojoe [ Tue Jan 23, 2007 4:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
My 2004 Liberty Renegade. No problems what-so-ever. Of course, I just jinxed myself. No issues with mine that sleeve84028 mentioned.

My LBJ's weren't even bad when I swapped them out per recall.

14 XJ's? What in the world were you doing with 14 XJ's? That's almost one per year unless you owned them all at the same time.
Author:  sidewayskj [ Tue Jan 23, 2007 4:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
I have a 100 000km on my 02 liberty and expect a radiator replacement and the stupid oil sending unit sensor and a set of ball joints at around that. I love my liberty though mine is stock height 2002 liberty limited and it wheels nice and is really civil to drive. The one thing I notice is the seats make you sit up straight and my seat belts sometimes need a little help up to get them out of the way but other than that I love it. Never owned an XJ but a guy at work has one and been in it a few times and it has a lot more wind noise and driving noise and I know it is a jeep but the kj is quiter that is forsure.
Author:  LoganSix [ Tue Jan 23, 2007 4:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
If you want to buy new, the next version of the Liberty will be slightly longer to give you more cargo room. And based on pre-production looks, it may handle larger tires. But, the look of the new model isn't as unique as the current one, just a smaller Commander. I like the look of my Renegade, but if I had to, I could get used to the new look.
Author:  dirtykj [ Tue Jan 23, 2007 4:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
LoganSix wrote:
But, the look of the new model isn't as unique as the current one


Yeah. Our next Jeep, when/if there is one, will likely be a JK or maybe even the Gladiator ... not sure I like the length, but interesting all the same.
Author:  tommudd [ Tue Jan 23, 2007 5:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
I have owned 3 Cherokees and ran them all up into the 175,000/200,000 mile range with no problems and hope the Liberty does the same. I like the KJ better on the road, better ride even with OME Heavy Duty springs. Handles better, easier to control, and power wise about the same. As far as mileage its about the same as a Cherokee on the road and in city. KJ has better interior room or at least what you use on a normal day in day out driving. I still like the looks of the old Cherokees but after lifting my Liberty I think it looks about right. Transmission shifts fine ,I have over 70,000 on mine, still original brakes (NO WARPING) only thing replaced was the lower ball joints and rear u joints. Would I buy another one knowing what I do now, no question. Would I Buy the next version of the Liberty, NO! too ugly. As far as the radios, ipods, satelite etc, have no use for them in the Liberty so cant tell you about those things, I bought something to drive not a living room :lol: :lol:
Author:  CJ10chris [ Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks for all the info guys. On the 14 XJ's..... well most were in need of fixing or a good home. My wife says that our house is like a homeless XJ shelter. Anyway, I use to co-own a 4x4 shop here in Spokane, so I built alot of XJ's and TJ's. XJ's to me are the best of both worlds, great daily driver and great off road. I've had a few Wranglers and although they are awesome off-road they lacked in the daily driver catagory, like cargo area and security. I love the open top but when you have to park it for a bit they seem more prone to break-ins, (4 times :cry: ). I was looking at a used Libby at lunch at the dealership, and I can say that I am surprised. The one I am looking at is a 2004 3.7l, auto, 4x4, sage color, with 50k on it. They also have a 2004 Renegade pkg one, black, with leather. I don't really dig on leather or black paint, don't get me wrong I love black but branches and brush give it hell. Ride was better than I thought it would be and quiet. So might hit 'em up again after work for some more test driving. What is the difference on a Renegade to a standard Libby or is it just cosmetic, like the flares and rack and roof lights?
-C
Author:  2006KJSPORT4x4 [ Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
You get a bigger alternator...160 or 165 amp...not sure what the actual # is. You can also luck out with a skid plate package underneath and a few extra things here and there....It all really depends to be honest. But then again get the last 8 digits of the VIN and then visit jeep.com and have them send you a build sheet on it so you can see what it really came with.
Author:  Tokyojoe [ Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
My 2004 Renegade came with the following. I had a different package than other Renegade models:

Many of these are not options for Sport models. My KJ was like this at the dealer. I did not add any options.

1. Engine/Front Skid
2. Transfer Case Skid
3. Fuel Tank skid
4. Trac Lock Limited Slip Differential
5. Stronger Alternator
6. Roof lights (4)
7. Plastic Roof Basket
8. Power Seats
9. Leather Seats & steering wheel
10. Matching Flares with cool looking fake rivets
11. Matching bumpers
12. Select Trac
13. Radio with CD player
14. All-wheel Anti-lock brakes
15. Matching color 16" wheels (something like that - don't remember the real name)
16. Electric side mirrors
17. Large jar of Jif peanut butter
18. Fog lights
19. Tinted rear window and rear passenger windows (not front or windshield)
20. Rock Rails


Okay, so the jar was not really an option, but it should have been.

Just remember, this is what my Reny had on it. Not all Reny's got this.
Author:  sleeve84028 [ Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
I guess I want to add that the list I came up with, is just that a list of things that I remember from other people posting and through some of my own experiences. Especially the brakes - I am hard on my brakes between towing and heavy stop and go traffic so please take my list with a grain of salt. Jeep did a great job with the Liberty IMO because it's pretty much built like a tank (just without all the armor) and is a very well rounded machine.
Author:  FastTRX [ Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
Tokyojoe wrote:
17. Large jar of Jif peanut butter


Ah man....I got ripped off...my sport never came with this..... :? :(

hahaha... :lol:

The KJ is one tough little SUV...I love mine. I had the same feelings that you did before purchasing mine...but shortly after owning it I was thanking myself and patting myself on the back. 8) Yea I catch some flack over driving a "liberty" but it can do everything I want it to and more. The aftermarket scene lacks in a few areas but it's coming along. All in all...the KJ is a very nice little jeep and it can have many uses in any family or for any person in general.
Author:  CJ10chris [ Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well I picked up a 04 Silver Sport two days ago....... and I have to say I'm impressed. It is one of the nicest Jeeps I have ever owned. So I'll apologize for anything I my have muttered in the past few years about Liberty's :oops: . So I'm now I'm going to order the ARB bumper and Frankenlift for it. I do have a question for everyone with the Mopar skids, how do they hold up? I might just make some myself if I get bored this weekend and some rocker knockers if there is time.
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