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Drive-By-Wire (Kill it Now !!!!) UPDATE: TRADED IT IN !!!
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Author:  BoyNamedSue [ Mon Apr 02, 2007 2:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Drive-By-Wire (Kill it Now !!!!) UPDATE: TRADED IT IN !!!
I ended up getting a 2007 Libby with the Manual transmission, and man oh man am I frustrated with it.
I just spent a while cruising the internet and have narrowed down my problem to one thing and one thing only:
DRIVE-BY-WIRE (technology?)

Here's how it works: You shift into a gear and then you wait, and then it reacts. You shift into another gear, then you wait, then it reacts. You pull out in front of traffic and shift into gear, and then you wait, and then it reacts. Doesn't this sound wonderful?
Gone are the days of getting the nice direct, crisp acceleration from your manual transmission. Now thanks to this great new technology you can just about die if you pull out in traffic at the wrong time.

There are currently no TSB's to fix this, no reflashes, nothing. I just have to live with it.
Does anybody know anything to help with this?
My only hope is that it gets better as the computer learns, but I highly doubt it. :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Mon Apr 02, 2007 2:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Drive-By-Wire --- (Kill it Now !!!!)
BoyNamedSue wrote:
I ended up getting a 2007 Libby with the Manual transmission, and man oh man am I frustrated with it.
I just spent a while cruising the internet and have narrowed down my problem to one thing and one thing only:
DRIVE-BY-WIRE (technology?)

Here's how it works: You shift into a gear and then you wait, and then it reacts. You shift into another gear, then you wait, then it reacts. You pull out in front of traffic and shift into gear, and then you wait, and then it reacts. Doesn't this sound wonderful?
Gone are the days of getting the nice direct, crisp acceleration from your manual transmission. Now thanks to this great new technology you can just about die if you pull out in traffic at the wrong time.

There are currently no TSB's to fix this, no reflashes, nothing. I just have to live with it.
Does anybody know anything to help with this?
My only hope is that it gets better as the computer learns, but I highly doubt it. :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x
Sucks not having a cable conected between the gas pedal and the throttle body doesn't it?Your screwed if it fails to.
Author:  Se7enLC [ Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Drive-By-Wire --- (Kill it Now !!!!)
BoyNamedSue wrote:
I ended up getting a 2007 Libby with the Manual transmission, and man oh man am I frustrated with it. I just spent a while cruising the internet and have narrowed down my problem to one thing and one thing only:
DRIVE-BY-WIRE (technology?)


Is that new for 2007? My 2005 6-speed doesn't do anything strange like that. I put it in gear and it's IN gear. And I know it's not drive by wire because I've been sloppy with the shifter and let the clutch out before putting it into gear and made 2nd gear buzz a couple times.
Author:  Maximum Carnage [ Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
To those L.O.S.T. members who have purchased a manual transmission Liberty. I have read a few posts about how the manual transmission sucks. Didn’t you test drive a Manual Liberty before you made your purchase :?:

He is what my old room mate did. He wanted a stick Mitsubishi Eclipse but didn’t know how to drive stick. He had the guys at the dealership test drive it for him. He made the purchase right their and then, some how managed to drive the car home. Well he put up with the draw back like he called it of owning a vehicle with a manual transmission. He beat himself for about a year and the decided to sell it.
Author:  BoyNamedSue [ Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
"Maximum Carnage"]To those L.O.S.T. members who have purchased a manual transmission Liberty. I have read a few posts about how the manual transmission sucks. Didn’t you test drive a Manual Liberty before you made your purchase :?:

I did the test drive and was told that the "computer" would learn my driving habits after a few hundred miles and it would smooth out. I also attributed the lurchy ride to just not being used to a new clutch and new transmission. I love manual transmissions--------hate automatics because of the hesitation and lack of control. But now I'm stuck with a manual that hesitates like an automatic and lurches like a bad manual. I have the worst features of both transmissions. Nice ! (I do take partial blame, but I had never heard of drive-by-wire, and the computer that learns your driving habits, so I didn't really know what exactly to expect when test driving and how it would change once broken in).
I guess I'm stuck with it now.
Author:  hyedipin [ Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
Manual tranny is good only for sports car in my opinion, why have the hassle of shifting gears in an SUV. Yes it is great to control the accel/engine braking, etc.. but really... or maybe we got very lazy.


BoyNamedSue wrote:
I did the test drive and was told that the "computer" would learn my driving habits after a few hundred miles and it would smooth out.


never believe what you are told at the dealer.. although it may be true, I tend to just IGNORE the salesperson at the dealers. Do my research ahead of time, and just go and bargain, that's it.
Author:  McMoney [ Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
I did the test drive and was told that the "computer" would learn my driving habits after a few hundred miles and it would smooth out. .[/quote]

Got to love what the stealer will tell you in order to sell you a car :wink:
Author:  Se7enLC [ Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
McMoney wrote:
Got to love what the stealer will tell you in order to sell you a car :wink:


My dealer told me that the liberty could "pop a wheelie" in 4-low.
Author:  BoyNamedSue [ Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
I thought I had researched the hell out my purchase before going.
I read all about the OBD2 computer that learns your driving habits, so when the dealer mentioned it would learn and get smoother it sounded pretty reasonable to me. The rest I just attributed to a new clutch, new engine, etc....

But throughout all of my research I never came across the "drive-by-wire" technology, so I wasn't really looking for a problem with it when test driving. Unfortunately I know more than I want to know about it now.
Author:  Maximum Carnage [ Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:45 pm ]
Post subject: 
For the record I wasn’t ripping on anyone.
I’ve heard that about the computer I just can’t believe that the computer will “eventually” learn your driving habits. That really sucks so maybe in a month or so depending how many miles you put on the Liberty it will have learned your habits and you might like it. But for know like you said you are stuck with it.
Author:  Mango~Ridge [ Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:21 pm ]
Post subject: 
You know, I test drove a 07 JK Rubicon and it did the same thing. I really didn't pay attention to it since I was just trying it out. Man that snaps big time. I'm glad I got a manual. :D

edit: I thing the OBD2 computer needs a huge memory upgrade! Needs to think and react quicker!
Author:  DnA Diesel [ Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
I have a hard time thinking it's the DBW at fault. I have a '01 TDI that's DBW from the accelerator pedal onwards and you wouldn't know the difference between that and a cable to governor link. The computers modules that poll the TPS (throttle position sensor) do it at a very high rate (commonly 30 times or more per second) so unless your changing throttle positions faster than that, you're not having any less throttle information going to the ECM.

FWIW, consider that every car with an ECM/ECU is DBW to some degree (i.e. anything without a throttle plate or injection pump input lever, that is), it's just a question of where the mechanical linkage stops and the electronics start. This sounds more like the engine mapping and some timing events programmed into the ECM to limit clutch wear.....and I thought this kind of shenanigans was limited to the de-torquing of the CRDs to save the RFE545 tranny.

Do you have ESP? If so, does turning it off change the characteristics of the Jeep?

Cheers,
Duey
Author:  Marlon_JBT [ Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well what the dealer said IS TRUE, but it only applies to the automatic transmission.
Author:  BoyNamedSue [ Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Do you have ESP? If so, does turning it off change the characteristics of the Jeep?

Turning off the esp didn't have any effect. I've never even seen my esp light come, not even when I try.
I'm positive it's the drive-by-wire. I've spent the morning reading countless complaints about it from people having the exact same problems as I'm having. Not just Jeep, but other manufacturers also.

My only hope is the magical computer learns my driving habits and makes it all better, otherwise I'll just have to get used to it.

I've already modified my driving style somewhat. After I shift into gear instead of pushing the accelerator down steadily, I will push it down a limited amount and just hold my foot steady until the power kicks in. It is quite strange and not as fun as a manual used to be.
Author:  jason thompson [ Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
I must agree DBW sucks
I drive a big truck , 4 axels with 15K# on each, and will tell you drive by wire was the dumbest thing they ever put in a car/truck
it "gets dumb" at the wrong time
our old truck ,same size, had a cable to a "buterfly" but a smaller engine and it did a better job of getting out into traffic this one we have now will some times not go with the throtle all the way to the floor it just sits there at 600 rpm and slowing down and traffic is on its way
I dont care if they hit me but I dont want any part of trying to explain that one to the cops

me
"Oh I had plenty room but the truck decided to have a brain fart"
cop
"sign here please"
Author:  boxhead [ Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:28 pm ]
Post subject: 
Guys, I've got to tell you, drive by wire is being greatly misused in this conversation. True drive by wire, in an auto, provides no mechanical connection between the steering wheel and the wheels that steer.

It's true we have no mechanical connection between the accelerator and the engine controls. It's true the auto transmissions "learns" your driving habits to some degree. I don't know if the manual tranny is a mechanical or hydraulic connection to the clutch petal, but I think it was hydraulic.

In a previous job, I spent a lot of time discussing drive by wire with SAE automotive engineers, and the difficulties of developing and actually bringing to market drive by wire steering control.
Author:  LiLredLibby [ Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
When did you but it?By law you have three days to return or exchange anything purchased new if your not satisfied with it.
Go back down to the dealer you bought it from,make the MANAGER drive it for a while,then nicely ask him if he would drive with his family in it until it learns his habits.Just remember to BE NICE,cause you'll draw alot more bees with honey than you will with salt. :wink:

Ron
Author:  Mango~Ridge [ Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:21 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yes I agree it's great technology. I just don't wan't it used on my throttle at this point in it's development.

Looks like we have no choice! :roll:
Author:  DnA Diesel [ Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
It's the engine mapping, the throttle position sensor simply reports the accelerator position...the mapping determines how the engine (and an electronic transmission if so-equipped) will respond to the driver's demand. The electonic throttle is, IMO, getting a bum rap here.

Note below that the TPS in the info page's example is being polled at 20kHz or 20,000 times/second. Some CAN-based systems (controller-area-network) in cars are polling beyond 50kHz with data rates amongst components beyond 500kBPS.
http://www.picotech.com/auto/applications/electronic_throttle_control.html

Cheers,
Duey
Author:  Gris [ Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
I have to argue two points based on my '02.

1. The manual 5-spd responds exactly like I tell it too. No lag or delay at all.

2. The computer DOES learn, even in the manual. When I had that speed-sensor problem few weeks ago, I fixed it without disconnecting the battery. for 2 weeks the car was being driven but not thinking it was going anywhere. Between the time I fixed it and 2 days later when I finally reset the comp, the exhaust coming out of the thing stank so bad of gas I can't imagine how rich it was running.
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