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Chrysler Suicide Watch 12: Give Me Liberty or...
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Author:  Black_Dog [ Thu Apr 12, 2007 2:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Chrysler Suicide Watch 12: Give Me Liberty or...
Today ttac.com published an editorial I wrote regarding my cynical outlook for the success of the new '08 Liberty. In the article I referenced L.O.S.T. and a poll that I put on the site a couple of weeks ago.

Link to Article: http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=3505

Passages that references L.O.S.T. members and the poll:
Quote:
...To test my suspicions I turned to L.O.S.T. (Liberty Owners Special Team). Most of this club and web forum’s members are apex users; they modify their cute-faced grocery-getter with lift kits and larger, knobbier tires and take them to places that SUV critics say SUV owners never go. The members’ antics prove that the current Liberty’s solid frame, low gear transfer case and stout-hearted rock crawlin’ engine make it a “real” Jeep.

Granted, this hardcore owner group’s behavior doesn’t represent the mainstream suburban Liberty owner. But L.O.S.T. members are living the dream that draws all of the lifestyle wannabes to the brand. I submit that their leading-edge opinion is a good bellwether of the platform’s future. So I polled their website’s visitors about the new Liberty’s place within Jeep’s lineup.

Although the survey was unscientific and the sample population small, the results were decisive. By a factor of two to one, L.O.S.T. members said they prefer the new four-door Wrangler Unlimited over the forthcoming KK Liberty (62% Wrangler, 29% Liberty)...
Author:  scoobybri [ Thu Apr 12, 2007 2:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
Nice editorial. Sums up the situation quite succinctly.
Author:  jcphoto20 [ Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:20 pm ]
Post subject: 
yea nice,


"The model’s sold to well manicured urban and suburbanites seduced by the Jeep’s round-eyed headlights and smiling bumper; buyers so smitten by the Liberty’s cuteness that they ignore the harsh ride, heavyweight handling, cramped quarters and horrendous gas mileage."
Author:  Skyjump136 [ Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
jcphoto20 wrote:
yea nice,


"they ignore the harsh ride, heavyweight handling, cramped quarters and horrendous gas mileage."


Those points are valid...and also hint at the fact that our beloved KJs are REAL Jeeps and capable off roaders. I haven't seen too many Escalades or Rav4s out on the trails. I'm sure the cushy ride of the Caddy and the gas mileage of the Rav4 are superior to that of the KJ, but give me a serious off road contender over those heaps any day. :D
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:04 pm ]
Post subject: 
Skyjump136 wrote:
jcphoto20 wrote:
yea nice,


"they ignore the harsh ride, heavyweight handling, cramped quarters and horrendous gas mileage."


Those points are valid...and also hint at the fact that our beloved KJs are REAL Jeeps and capable off roaders. I haven't seen too many Escalades or Rav4s out on the trails. I'm sure the cushy ride of the Caddy and the gas mileage of the Rav4 are superior to that of the KJ, but give me a serious off road contender over those heaps any day. :D
Dangit I bought a Jeep and want(more like expect) a harsh ride and bad MPG.If I wanted good MPG's I would not have bought a Jeep.If I wanted a good ride I would have bought a Caddy.It's a Jeep thing,they don't understand! :lol:
Author:  dieselenthusiast [ Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
Skyjump136 wrote:
jcphoto20 wrote:
yea nice,


"they ignore the harsh ride, heavyweight handling, cramped quarters and horrendous gas mileage."


Those points are valid...and also hint at the fact that our beloved KJs are REAL Jeeps and capable off roaders. I haven't seen too many Escalades or Rav4s out on the trails. I'm sure the cushy ride of the Caddy and the gas mileage of the Rav4 are superior to that of the KJ, but give me a serious off road contender over those heaps any day. :D


Very much agreed!
Author:  jcphoto20 [ Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
valid points? mine rides nice and smooth, has lots of room for my wife and i and whatever we buy at costco or moving college kids stuff. and i get good gas mileage, sure it handles like an suv, its an suv, but its better than an FJ or H3 by a ton.
Author:  kolesy [ Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
tjkj2002 wrote:
Skyjump136 wrote:
jcphoto20 wrote:
yea nice,


"they ignore the harsh ride, heavyweight handling, cramped quarters and horrendous gas mileage."


Those points are valid...and also hint at the fact that our beloved KJs are REAL Jeeps and capable off roaders. I haven't seen too many Escalades or Rav4s out on the trails. I'm sure the cushy ride of the Caddy and the gas mileage of the Rav4 are superior to that of the KJ, but give me a serious off road contender over those heaps any day. :D
Dangit I bought a Jeep and want(more like expect) a harsh ride and bad MPG.If I wanted good MPG's I would not have bought a Jeep.If I wanted a good ride I would have bought a Caddy.It's a Jeep thing,they don't understand! :lol:


Amen!

Awesome article!
Author:  Skyjump136 [ Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
jcphoto20 wrote:
valid points? mine rides nice and smooth, has lots of room for my wife and i and whatever we buy at costco or moving college kids stuff. and i get good gas mileage, sure it handles like an suv, its an suv, but its better than an FJ or H3 by a ton.


It may be better than an FJ or H3 in the "smooth ride" department. I'll grant you that, but in stock form both those vehicles could hand a KJ its lunch going up a rocky trail. The KJ is a fantastic mix of grocery getter and off roader, but it isn't the best in either department (and there's nothing wrong with that).
Author:  DarbyWalters [ Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
Skyjump136 wrote:
jcphoto20 wrote:
valid points? mine rides nice and smooth, has lots of room for my wife and i and whatever we buy at costco or moving college kids stuff. and i get good gas mileage, sure it handles like an suv, its an suv, but its better than an FJ or H3 by a ton.


It may be better than an FJ or H3 in the "smooth ride" department. I'll grant you that, but in stock form both those vehicles could hand a KJ its lunch going up a rocky trail. The KJ is a fantastic mix of grocery getter and off roader, but it isn't the best in either department (and there's nothing wrong with that).


But use the price as a deciding factor and both the FJ and especially the H3 give us a lot of $$$ to work with for modifications.
Author:  Skyjump136 [ Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
Very true. All I'm saying is that no vehicle will be all things to all people, and while the KJ does not lead the pack in either area it is a pretty darn good mix right off the showroom floor.

Funny thing is, the more capable mine becomes (through modifications) the less cushy the ride and worse gas mileage I get...and I love it. :D
Author:  jcphoto20 [ Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
thats wierd, the more i modify mine, the better it rides, the better it is off road, and the better it is at gas mileage.
Author:  1300ZUK [ Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
you are william C Montgomery :D

awesome

i usually like reading your stuff on TTAC 8)
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
Skyjump136 wrote:
Very true. All I'm saying is that no vehicle will be all things to all people, and while the KJ does not lead the pack in either area it is a pretty darn good mix right off the showroom floor.

Funny thing is, the more capable mine becomes (through modifications) the less cushy the ride and worse gas mileage I get...and I love it. :D
You got that problem to!!!!!!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
Author:  1300ZUK [ Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
Skyjump136 wrote:
Very true. All I'm saying is that no vehicle will be all things to all people, and while the KJ does not lead the pack in either area it is a pretty darn good mix right off the showroom floor.

Funny thing is, the more capable mine becomes (through modifications) the less cushy the ride and worse gas mileage I get...and I love it. :D


yeah the KJ did offer a good mix, the new one won't. FJcruisers, Wrangler Unlimited, H3, are all better options now.
Author:  chefdab [ Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
If you think the Liberty has a harsh ride, maybe you should take it to a mechanic and have it checked out. My old Liberty was a plush ride compared to the Wrangler I have now. However I do agree on the point that Jeep has too many vehicles competing at the same price point with each other. It seems like they are just throwing new models out there so they can saturate the market. And by doing so they are forgetting their heritage. Jeeps have always been a niche market and now they are trying to mainstream them. You bought a Jeep for the capability it possessed, whether you actually ever used it or not. You just knew that if the time came, it would be willing to take you anywhere you wanted to go. Not true with the newer offerings which aren't "trail rated". And they offer the Wrangler in 2wd now? I remember reading somewhere that the Jeep engineers had to fight with upper management to keep the Wrangler solid axle on this redesign. If the Germans hold onto Chrysler and Jeep, they may not be so lucky the next time around. That would surely be the end of Jeep as we know it.
Author:  1300ZUK [ Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
well yes a liberty is plush to me, compared to a Samurai.


compare it to an Equinox (which is just garbage anyway) or some other SUV's its pretty "harsh".
Author:  Skyjump136 [ Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
1300ZUK wrote:
well yes a liberty is plush to me, compared to a Samurai.


compare it to an Equinox (which is just garbage anyway) or some other SUV's its pretty "harsh".


Exactly...it's all relative. I'd say in the "cute ute" department (which is the segment Jeep meant to compete in) it is one of the more harsh rides...
Author:  Black_Dog [ Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
Harshness, of course, is relative. However, I have driven a lot of SUV’s in the last 9 months since I have been writing reviews for ttac.com. From first hand experience I can tell you that the Liberty is much harsher than:
    Acura MDX
    Acura RDX
    Nissan Murano
    Honda CR-V
    Toyota RAV4
    Toyota FJ Cruiser
    2007 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited (yes, the new Wrangler’s really drives this well)
    Saab 9-7x
    Chevy Trailblazer
    Jeep Patriot
    Jeep Compass
    Dodge Nitro
    Kia Sorento

Note: I am comparing on-road driving dynamics, not off-road prowess. The Liberty dominates all of these off-road except the Wrangler and FJ Cruiser.

Harsh is not necessarily bad. Removing your sway bar makes the ride much smoother and a greater roll-over hazard. The firm (stock) suspension keeps the Liberty much more level when cornering - the Trailblazer (expecially bad), RAV4, Nitro and Murano have far more lean. This also helps the Liberty brake better than the Trailblazer, Murano or MDX.

So actually, I appreciate a little harshness. But your common Soccer Mom doesn’t, which was my point.
Author:  SavageUrge [ Fri Apr 13, 2007 4:05 am ]
Post subject: 
Personally, before I became a Jeep owner, several of my friends owned Wranglers. I used to love riding with them because something about the "Jeep ride" really appealed to me. Years later when it came time to purchase another vehicle, I realized that only an SUV would suit my needs, so after perusing all the "other" SUV's out there, I finally got down to the Liberty. As a side note: I didn't even consider the Liberty because I thought it was ugly as sin, until I found out everything else was WAY over-priced. Then I looked and saw the Liberty Renegade - I was instantly smitten when I saw those overhead lights and special wheels with the rugged looking fender flares! I priced it out rather extravagantly and found it was still within my price range! Jackpot! Anyway, after I worked all my numbers and finally decided what I was willing to pay for my new Jeep (as opposed to what the dealer wanted to sell it to me for), I decided it was time for the all-telling test drive. As soon as I got moving and felt the road beneath me - every little nook and cranny of it, that all too familiar feeling of "Jeep-euphoria" washed over me, and I new it was meant to be! There is something in the way a Jeep rides that just exudes driving confidence and a "get the hell outta my way, I got a Jeep and you don't!" attitude. It's like nothing else on (or off) the road. In other words, I wouldn't trade the ride for nuthin'! It's a Jeep thing, dammit!
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