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Illegally wheeling on my own land!?
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=20474		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  rubigade [ Sun May 06, 2007 11:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Illegally wheeling on my own land!?
Listen up. I need help! I got a ticket for wheeling in my dad's creek!!!!!!!!! Tonight I was at my parents in the country and decided that my Liberty needed to attempt a very tricky hill coming out of their creek. Granted, we've had alot of rain but... what the heck. Going down into it, I was impressed by the grip of the MTRs on the bank. I got down, turned around to come up and it was slicker than snot. As I said, it's in the country so there were some people out walking, saw me drive down into it and began watching. A few minutes later, my dad and I decided that he needed to get the 4x4 John Deere out of the barn and give me a tug. By the time he got back from the 1/4 mile hike and drive, the local EMT, two different cities firetrucks and about 20 people were looking down from the bridge above. Next came the TX Highway Patrol!!?? I was in a creek on my dad's land, named for my family, "Little Creek", in a city where my brother has been Mayor for 6 years and a Jerk of a Highway Patrol cop (I wouldn't usually say this) comes over with an attitude and tells me that driving in a "Freshwater-way" is ILLEGAL and an ARRESTABLE offense!!! I was in disbelief as he wrote me a ticket and turned his back to me and walked away while I was still talking!!!
Not only was/am I pissed, he also listed on the ticket 2 more offenses: No proof of liability insurance (I'm my own insurance agent! doh!) and not changing the address on my Driver's License (I sold my house 2 weeks ago).
My point is this: 1. is this right/legit? 2. if so, we have problems. Not only are nuts trying to close public land, evidently they are now telling us what we can and cannot do on our OWN LAND!!
Help! Talk to me!!
Author:  Gringo Loco [ Sun May 06, 2007 11:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
Rubigade, here is some info.

As of January 1, 2004, all motor vehicle access to approximately 1,000,000 acres of riverbeds and streambeds within Texas is now prohibited under legislation that was passed last year and known as "Senate Bill 155". This law prohibits the use of ATVs, Jeeps, 4 x 4 trucks, motorcycles and effectively bans all boat and PWC launching by trailer and RV camping within a riverbed or streambed area.

Here is a link to a petition to repeal SB 155

http://www.petitiononline.com/svetrail/petition.html
Author:  renegadekj [ Sun May 06, 2007 11:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yeah they have the same law in nova scotia for atv's and 4x4's also.How far will it go?? :?
Author:  Sir Sam [ Mon May 07, 2007 12:04 am ]
Post subject: 
Gringo Loco wrote:
Rubigade, here is some info.

As of January 1, 2004, all motor vehicle access to approximately 1,000,000 acres of riverbeds and streambeds within Texas is now prohibited under legislation that was passed last year and known as "Senate Bill 155". This law prohibits the use of ATVs, Jeeps, 4 x 4 trucks, motorcycles and effectively bans all boat and PWC launching by trailer and RV camping within a riverbed or streambed area.

Here is a link to a petition to repeal SB 155

http://www.petitiononline.com/svetrail/petition.html


It sounds like they may have him there, even if its on public or in this case private land. However if he was not operating a vehicle on public roads then having proof of insurance and an updated DL should not matter.
Author:  rubigade [ Mon May 07, 2007 12:04 am ]
Post subject: 
Hey thanks for the quick response. I just read all of SB155 and although all this is true, it says NOTHING about owners of their own land getting in their own creeks. I've just emailed the author of the bill, a local lawyer. I'll tell you what he says!
This is rediculous!!!
thanks again.
Author:  spencevans [ Mon May 07, 2007 12:59 am ]
Post subject: 
Did he have a warrant to be there? It is private property and even cops have to respect private property.
Author:  USAFCOP [ Mon May 07, 2007 1:05 am ]
Post subject: 
OK, did the stater ask for insurance and give you a chance to provide it?
Texas has a one month grace period for the changing your license address, (most of the states are the same).
So the first two things if you go to court, especially after you change the address on your license, you can get both of those thrown out.
Now for the creek issue, if your dad owns the water rights, then that will most likely be thrown out as well.
I would definetly take those to court. Also if the trooper doesn't show, they get thrown out anyway.
Author:  desertkj [ Mon May 07, 2007 9:21 am ]
Post subject: 
spencevans wrote:
Did he have a warrant to be there? It is private property and even cops have to respect private property.


If it is an actual offense and it is viewable from the highway, I think that falls under not having a "reasonable expectation of privacy" and he can ticket you.
Author:  chetos [ Mon May 07, 2007 9:57 am ]
Post subject: 
The land may belong to your family but I believe the 'water' belongs to the state.
Author:  Gris [ Mon May 07, 2007 11:09 am ]
Post subject: 
chetos wrote:
The land may belong to your family but I believe the 'water' belongs to the state.


That brings up another question...

Did he actually see you in the water or just assume that you were because you were close to it?
Author:  2006KJSPORT4x4 [ Mon May 07, 2007 11:32 am ]
Post subject: 
We all know what assuming means too...
Author:  O_Dogg [ Mon May 07, 2007 11:57 am ]
Post subject: 
well he said the emt and firetrucks with 20 some people were looking at the jeep when they came back to get it out and the HP was on scene.

i know in PA all water except ponds on your property that are man made, are commonwealth water you may own the land but there is a leeway of 12-16 feet from the waters edge that is considered commonwealth waters. you can be in the water or on shore of private property and it is legal as long as your not squatting. so even if the crick runs through your land you do not own the water.
Author:  jg45 [ Mon May 07, 2007 1:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
[rant] First of all, get over the idea that you have private property or own anything. If the government can seize your assets including land and sell them out from under you for not paying property or income taxes or because someone can raise more taxes by building a mall there, then you are just renting. Secondly, sounds like the trooper,surprise surprise, had a serious attitude and superiority complex.[/rant]
Go to court, get it thrown out.
Author:  O_Dogg [ Mon May 07, 2007 1:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
odds are if it is a new law the trooper will show up so you will in the end pay more in court costs. 9/10 troopers show up if it were a towny i would say try to fight it
Author:  spoonplugger1 [ Mon May 07, 2007 1:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well, from the prospective of a fisherman if that is a creek that runs all the time I can see how you got the ticket. If it has water on it less often it may still be protected under state and federal wetlands legislation. It's a just creek to you looking from the top, but it's an environment full of creatures that depend on clean, non damaged streambeds to live, eat and reproduce, if not right there than downstream. Everyone says that just me going here doesn't hurt much, but multiply that by the millions of users and now we have a problem. With ownership and dominion over the earth, we also hold the responsibility of good stewardship.
Author:  jcphoto20 [ Mon May 07, 2007 2:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
all the more reason im glad i helped my wife escape texas and move [i]way[/i] back in the woods where we own the property, water and all mineral rights.

(yea i know they can use any excuse they feel like to take it away, outta sight outta mind)
Author:  myjeepwalks [ Mon May 07, 2007 9:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
Two of my buddies got fines of $750 EACH for having there trucks stuck in a steam in a state park in NJ. Those rangers did not find that funny at all.

If it were private property though i'd tell them to pound sand without a warrant.
Author:  RQuarte [ Mon May 07, 2007 9:12 pm ]
Post subject: 
Don't feel bad i got two tickets for trespassing and endengering the enviornment last weekend. There were no signs though, it was just a dirt road calling my name! I'm headed to court next month now.

Good luck with your battle! :lol:
Author:  rubigade [ Mon May 07, 2007 11:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
Wow, ya'll. Thanks for the response. There's alot of good points made here. Regardless of all of them, I just don't see how the legitimacy of an inaccurate DL and invalid insurance card have anything to do with anything. I WAS NOT ON A ROADWAY AT ANYTIME COMMITTING ANY VIOLATIONS. If he'd wanted to wait on me to get on one, then pull me over, that's another story! But he didn't.
I'll answer a couple of these interesting responses:
1. I was NOT near a highway by 1 mile. I was near a bridge that my dad built and paid for. There is NOT even a city police, only county sheriffs. The trooper came in from the call over the radio to check it out.. had little else to do. I, at no time, entered or exited the creek from anyone else' property or easements and the actual access to the steep banked creek was made BY ME. I had a Excavating Co. and because the local municipality couldn't get their equipment (mechanical) down there, I made a "ramp" with my "mechanical" bobcat.
2. If you've ever been to TX in the mid summer, you know that few creeks continue to flow all year round. The "living creatures" in the water pretty much die as a result of the evaporating/stagnent waters. I have little to do with that. The comment made about proper "stewardship" of creation is a little over the top. You're gonna suffocate that tree your huggin. :cry:
3. The officer came from the roadway to our property to do his business with me. The only way he even knew I was in the creek was because of my proximity to the bridge up stream.
Honestly, I can get those two tossed. And after talking with my bro today, he's run in tight circles with these Judges and it looks like he can get it tossed too.
Here's what really gets me... the fact that some pencil pushin attorney somewhere in some office can pass such a law so quietly and simply that no one actually KNOWS it's been done. I mean, it's not like there are signs posted along the "freshwater way" like speed limit signs indicating that I'm doing something wrong. Furthermore, that such a law can affect "private property". To my knowledge, the "warrant" or "search warrant" comment seems accurate. There was NO reason for him to even come on our land. He should have just seen what was up, if he was curious and either laughed or left, preferrably both.
Here's the bottom line: WE (OFFROADERS) NEED TO GET TOGETHER AND PROTECT/DEFEND OUR RIGHTS AS CITIZENS. EVERYONE KNOWS SOMEONE WITH SOME LAND TO PLAY ON AND IF THIS CRAP LEGISLATION KEEPS GETTING PASSED WITHOUT OUR KNOWING AND FIGHTING IT, BEFORE LONG WE WON'T EVEN BE ABLE TO GET IN THE DIRT SHOULDER OF THE ROAD LEGALLY!! NO REASON WILL BE ENOUGH AND WE WILL BE PAYING CITATION FINES FOR EVERYTHING FROM RIDING A "MOTORIZED" SCOOTER AT THE WRONG TIME OF DAY TO HAVING UNINTENDED MECHANICAL PROBLEMS!
ARE THERE ANY ATTORNEYS IN THIS VACINITY THAT CAN GO TO WORK FOR US INSTEAD OF AGAINST US??
Author:  Metrowest_Kev [ Tue May 08, 2007 12:13 am ]
Post subject: 
You should follow your dad's footsteps and run for office if you feel that strong about it. You should carry the wheeling vote!

It sounds like the statey has a poor interpretation of the law while enforcing it. Hopefully the judge will interpret it better. Be grateful for the USA judicial system, where you'll hopefully get it tossed out quickly. Fight it in court and set a precedent that other Texan KJers can use to defend themselves. Good luck.
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