Just heard this on the Toledo news that Forbes magazine just announced their list of poorly performing autos. Topping the List
Chrysler Sebring, Dodge Nitro , Jeep Liberty, Dodge Caliber, Dodge Magnum, also said on the news cast that they didnt like the looks of the Nitro or the "new" Liberty but didnt see that in the article. Oh well so what do they know some of their choices I agree with but others??

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MUDD'S MOTORSPORT'S We do IFS lift installs ,
03 OVERLAND EDITION /Kilby-Skidrow-Mopar-4XGuard skids/ 2.5 inch TOTAL CONTROL JBA coilovers -JBA Arms/MOABS-31 FALKEN WILDPEAK AT3W / 4.10's etc, 04 Kilimanjaro Edition loaded, plus 05 KJ limited

I guess chysler is on Forbes doo doo list or something? I always wonder where they get the info for these reports. Probably from people that trash the car saying "its such a pos because it needed a new engine at 20k miles and the dealer wouldn't warranty it." they dont tell you that they never changed the oil in it.

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02' Sport- SOLD

07' Dodge Ram Quad Cab 1500 4x4
Yeah it's got a hemi!

Forbes and Consumer Reports are loads of crap when it comes to autos. I'm sure they would gladly "up" Chrysler's ratings for a nominal fee...

Car and Driver: the most trusted source in automotive news. And it's entertaining too!

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Ryan
<B>'03 Limited 4x4</B>

Amen on Car & Driver.

You always have to consider an author's bias, and I'd say that author had one. The other thing you have to look at is criteria. If you are looking for a tall wagon with a Japanese nameplate, then the Liberty can't compare to the Rav4 & CR-V. But if you are looking for an actual SUV in that size class, the Liberty wins hands down.

Four Wheeler touted the new Liberty as being pretty darn good. And maybe the electronic traction control will keep the front end from grenading.

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LOST # 633
'05 KJ 3.7L/6spd/241 245/75/16 MT's
'88 MJ 4.0L/AW4/231 SWB HPD30 & trac-loc D44 w/3.73's
A dirty Jeep is a happy Jeep

I read the article last week. It was based on (if I remember correctly) the number time the vehicle had to be serviced, and resale value. In my experience the Liberty would fair badly by both those standards. That doesn't mean I don't like it.

The resale value can be traced back directly to Chryslers (and all the domestic manufacturers) habit of selling them well below sticker at the end of the year. My 2003 renegade stickered at just over $30,000. I paid $23,000 at the end of the year. That sure hurts the guy that paid $30,000 a few months earlier.

The number of visits to the dealer for service is both a quality control problem, and a problem with the dealers. First you have the problems like the ball joints and window regulators that causes multiple visits. Then, in my experience you have the chrysler dealers who can't seem to fix anything right causing repeat visits.

I think the recalls were heavily weighted...

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2007 Jeep Liberty Sport 4x4 3.7L 6 Speed
Synthetic in Differentials, Transfer case and Transmission
K&N, 245/70/16 Brdgestone Dueler A/T

for the 07- 08 liberty i was not aware of recalls

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06 kj 3.7 nsg 370 np 241 dark khaki

In my honest opinion, Car and Driver magazine is one of the most one sided and biased magazines I have ever read. I WAS a subscriber for a number of years until I just couldn't take it anymore. In the car comparos if there was a BMW in it they would win. Every time! I would see the cover and say, "oh looks like BMW wins again, lets see who gets second." They do not stick to criterion on the tests either. Often times the best performer in test doesn't win due to a subjective call made by the author of the test. These subjective calls are very inconsistent which only serves to exacerbate the issue. But like I said, my honest opinion.

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-Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. -Einstein
-'07 KJ Sport
-Skink Super Sliders, Mopar Skids, Huskys, 245/70 16 Grabber AT2s, Hooks, Warholamo Rails, Black Widow Roof Rack
-Up Next: Lift?

There's a simple explanation as to why BMWs always win Car and Driver comparos: they're better than all the other cars being tested! Have you ever driven one? It's a magical experience.

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Ryan
<B>'03 Limited 4x4</B>

I love C&D's editorials & articles. Yes, they are very BMW biased in reviews. Pro-ricer,too. Yes, I have driven a few BMW's. One brother has an M-roadster, another has the plain jane four-popper z3, for example. The M is decent, the four popper is a dog.

Using the classic formula of a big engine in a small car nets you a killer M3. But every BMW is not an M-series, even if the owners seem to think so. Hey, if you want to pay sky high prices for a Focus sized 318 ( or whatever the bottom end is now) then go for it.

But if Ford tried to sell you a $35,000 Focus, you'd laugh your butt off. And if they souped it up and wanted $50k, you probably need an ambulance.

Don't even start on the bangle-butt styling or the 6-series.

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LOST # 633
'05 KJ 3.7L/6spd/241 245/75/16 MT's
'88 MJ 4.0L/AW4/231 SWB HPD30 & trac-loc D44 w/3.73's
A dirty Jeep is a happy Jeep

Magical? Like I-drive?

Hey it crashed again... Hold on while I reboot it... ah the magic is back... What the h3ll is it doing now?

ESP is bad enough... no thanks to having a Microsoft toy OS control a $75,000 BMW.

What's the old joke?

How come they don't fire the BMW engineers for the I-Drive debacle?

Oh, because they can't figure out how to control the I-Drive in the 7 series and can't make it into work to fire them!

I would take a Lotus Ellie or a Cayman S or a diesel Audi... but no thanks to I-Drive.

Yes but years ago they had a great article on the effects of smoking pot and driving after their drinking article of coarse a freind told me about it I didn't know what they were talking about?????

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LEAD FOLLOW OR GET OUT OF THE WAY
2002 Sport 4x4 3.7 L w/auto
Amsoil from bumper to bumper, Amsoil Air Filter
PIAA head light bulbs, Fog Light switched out to SilverStar 9005's
MagnaFlo Muffler, New Radiator, Rebuilt A/C system,Rebuilt Rear Diff, LBJ's twice
Dunlop 245/70-16 Rover AT

Car and Driver doesn't exactly praise BMWs for their computer gizmos either. I never really messed with iDrive in the few months that I had access to a 2005 7-series. All I know was that that thing could haul and the engine note was incredible.

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Ryan
<B>'03 Limited 4x4</B>

If you guys get BBC America, I reccomend watching Top Gear for euro-car
reviews. They seem to be pretty fair (only slightly biased toward Brit cars).
They regularly point out that you could buy a really super awesome BMW
or Mercedes at several hundred thousand pounds (UK) or you could buy
this other car, that performs equally as well, for a lot less. Minus all the
really super awesome accessories of course.
They also do a lot of really goofy challenges and stuff that I find entertaining.

Probably my favorite show on cable, next to Dirty Jobs.

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U.S. Army Retired

I wish I could get Top Gear, but I'll settle for some of their stuff that comes up on YouTube. Remember the Bowler wild cat? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLvlfAyduvA

Just because the 318ti and the new 1 series are Focus sized doesn't mean they're not worth the price. hell of a lot better build quality, better ride, better handling...no, I haven't driven one, but BMW doesn't eff stuff up. I have never driven a BMW I didn't like. Focuses are what they are...a $12,000 car that rides like crap and makes a bunch of stupid noises.

And the 6 series is gorgeous, both the old one and the new one. I haven't messed with I drive and i won't, because I don't care. I'll drive the dogcrap out of a 6 series, 7 series, 5 series, 3 series, or a 1 series..I'm driving a fast, good-handling car, why would I want to play with a computer?

Not to muck the waters, but my liberty has more miles and has had less problems than my mom's X5.

This weekend I have to help her figure out why the drives side floor gets wet every time it rains.... not to mention coolant problems, the in dash navigation system going kaput, window regulators, and switches, all sorts of problems that I haven't had with my libby. Heck I could have purchased two liberties for the price she paid for her one car, and gotten a lifetime warranty.
-Mark

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2008 VW Rabbit- 5-speed 5-cylinders
2000 TJ 4-cylinders 5-speed I'll let you know when I figure it out.
2006 Liberty SOLD.

Styling is truly in the eye of the beholder. But The Bangle Era will not be known as a dandy one in the years to come.

I'll take a Focus at $12k, put $10K in it, smoke your 318 ( which is not a fast car, not matter what anyone wishes) and still have $13k in my pocket. And I hate Focii and had one bought back by Ford in 2004.

Awww. Image is worth $13k to some. What was the old joke about porcupines and BMW's?

Yes, it was a set-up, but I drove a Caddy STS back-to-back for 8 hours against a 5-series in 2005. Car & Driver set it up. After proving that we could handle the car, we were turned lose on an SCCA-type cone-course to do our best. The Caddy was the better car, was faster around the course, and had a heck of a lot more room in the back, especially head room, which was lacking in the 5-series ( both had sunroofs.) And no Bangle-butt. The BMW had much better front seats. Aside from that, the reviews of the 30 people there put the Caddy ahead by a good margin. We did not play with the I-drive, as the Car & Driver people told us it was junk, in so many words. There was not enough time to try to show us crap on it. The Caddy had no such problems. The E330 Lexus was a joke and received no votes.

The 1999 M roadster has 240 hp. It is a neat car, but repair bills & even maintenance seems exceptionally high. The 1998 1.8L Z3, as mentioned above, is not overly impressive. I cannot see how wrapping that same engine in a coupe or sedan body would make it better.

It is my understanding that in much of Europe the little BMW's are sold for exactly what they are: smallish family cars. But they load them up with trinkets, send them over here with a slick advertising campaign, and sell them at a premium to the image-concious.

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LOST # 633
'05 KJ 3.7L/6spd/241 245/75/16 MT's
'88 MJ 4.0L/AW4/231 SWB HPD30 & trac-loc D44 w/3.73's
A dirty Jeep is a happy Jeep

I think the same is true to an extent with MB vehicles. I just dont think mercedes was ever able to cultivate the "normal" car catagory.

For some reason diesel mercedes sedans with manual transmissions, winders and hubcaps just never took took hold.

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http://www.Colorado4Wheel.com
"Its not about what you can DO with your Jeep, its about where you can GO with your Jeep."
Knowledgeable - But Caustic