Mechanic says "front diff moving"!? (please help)

RespectMyLibertay · **Posted:** Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:15 pm

Awhile back Meinke told me my inner tie-rods (the ones you can't see) are shot. Just today I took it into Big-O for an alignment and asked them to check out the front. They called me awhile later and said they wouldn't do an alignment because the "front diff's trac bar is moving". I didn't ask question till I arrived on location and then talked with the alignment tech. He said that the front diff is literally moving sideways (towards each wheel) and that the bushing holding it place are shot. He then pointed out my totalled CV axle boot on the side that I had been hearing noises from. He said he had tightened loose ends but it still moved a lot.
What the heck do I do?!?!?!? Honestly, this is RIDICULOUS. I have never done anything with the front diff at all (front desk guy at Big-O wanted to blame the lift) and now I have to replace the darn bushings? Does anyone know where I can get replacements, if it's possible to do it myself, and if not, how much a dealership would charge me?
ANY HELP WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED...I have never heard of anyone having a problem like this ever before, and I've been on these boards for at least 3 years.

EDIT: I just realized the Jeep is still covered under a 7/70 POWERTRAIN warranty. What are the odds a dealership would cover this? My lift doesn't affect the front diff at all (like almost all other lifted KJs), but larger tires could give them a reason to deny it. Local guys, what dealership would be most likely to OK fixing this under warranty? The warranty brings a new aspect into fixing this, but I'd still like to hear from the board on the problem I'm having with my KJ.

Guest · **Posted:** Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:24 pm

the KJ doesn't have a trac bar, that's a coil sprung/solid front axle thing. I'll admit, I never looked too hard, but I thought the D30A was bolted directly to the frame, not via bushings? Also...I wouldn't be surprised if your inner tie rods are gone. how many miles are on your KJ? it could also be playi n your steering rack bushings if they don't know how to tell the difference. You can't tighten tie rod ends, however, so I think somebody's full of something, or don't really know what they're doing.

the 10 plies on your KJ offer the front end a beating it'd never see with a stock-size 235/70-16 standard load tire. these are the sacrifices we make when we make 'em bigger and badder;)

RespectMyLibertay · **Posted:** Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:28 pm

I know it doesn't have a trac bar, that's just what he called it. There are bushings, take a look under the Jeep. He showed me the passenger side of the diff, the bracket that is right there, where the long part of the diff meets the CV axle on the passenger side. This is what he said was loose (he spoke little English). I just got underneath there with a screwdriver and pryed at a bunch of the mount points for the diff and its bracketry and the whole thing can move abount a half inch either way. I can watch as my CV axle shafts move with my whole diff as I pry it. It is very loose and is moveable a lot less by hand; obviously the screwdriver gives me much more leverage.

elephantrider · **Posted:** Sun Dec 30, 2007 7:21 pm

i would get a 2nd opinion at the dealership, with someone who speaks fluent english so you can be triple certain you understand what the issue is.

you can go from there and decide what the next step is.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Sun Dec 30, 2007 7:42 pm

On the '02-'07 KJ's the front diff is mounted with 3 brackets and all have rubber bushings,and they do wear out.Common things that leed to acelerated wear are high salt areas and not washing the under carrage good enough at least once every 2 weeks.If theses bushings are bad it does not effect the alignment or setting the alignment at all since all the alignment is done through the 4 cam bolts holding the LCA's on,nothing to do with the front diff.The inner CV can move in/out for any play and suspension compression/droop.So in short the front diff sould be alble to be moved a little since it is not hard attached to the cradle,but may want to check the bushings for cracks showing alot of wear.You can get the bushings,though you need to buy all the brackets also,about $200 or so for all 3 brackets from a discount parts place on the internet.You may need new rack&pinion bushings also with those worn inner tie-rod ends,cheap but about 12 hours to replace.

RespectMyLibertay · **Posted:** Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:18 pm

How do I check to see if I infact need to replace my inner tie-rods rather than replace the steering rack bushings?

What is the place online that carries the replacement diff bracketry? I checked worldpartsexpress, rockauto, and others to no avail, but I may be searching for the wrong thing, as you said I need to replace the bracketry to replace the bushings.

I was thinking a good dealership (I'm not sure which one, though :oops:

) would probably honor my 7/70 powertrain warranty and do the front diff bushings and/or replace the bracket if they can't do just the bushings. The steering would obviously not be covered. I already have MOOG inner tie-rods but I still don't even know if that's what I need.

KJ04 · **Posted:** Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:33 pm

RespectMyLibertay wrote:

How do I check to see if I infact need to replace my inner tie-rods rather than replace the steering rack bushings?

What is the place online that carries the replacement diff bracketry? I checked worldpartsexpress, rockauto, and others to no avail, but I may be searching for the wrong thing, as you said I need to replace the bracketry to replace the bushings.

I was thinking a good dealership (I'm not sure which one, though :oops:

) would probably honor my 7/70 powertrain warranty and do the front diff bushings and/or replace the bracket if they can't do just the bushings. The steering would obviously not be covered. I already have MOOG inner tie-rods but I still don't even know if that's what I need.

See what the dealership comes up with, and then figure your options from there. I'm guessing a do it yourself weekend tear down would be the cheapest route to go, unless you have a load of money for labor costs.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:36 pm

Quote:

I was thinking a good dealership (I'm not sure which one, though ) would probably honor my 7/70 powertrain warranty and do the front diff bushings and/or replace the bracket if they can't do just the bushings. The steering would obviously not be covered. I already have MOOG inner tie-rods but I still don't even know if that's what I need.

Bushings are not covered under the powertrain warrenty since they are a wear item,heck the water pump is not even covered un der the powertrain warrenty.

To check the rack bushings and inner/outer tie rod ends is to have someone turn the steering wheel back and forth(with engine off,key turned to the run postion) while you look at the rack itself(if moving more then 1/8" ) then the inner/outer tie rod ends,if the rod ends move more/before the tires they are worn.

Oh and worldpartsexpress.com does have the brackets,posting a link to there has never worked for me but they are,just hard to find,call a dealer and get the part#'s and then type them into there website to get them if needed.

And finally a little play with the front diff is okay,about a 1/4" either way should be fine,anymore and there maybe a problem.Again having bad front diff mount bushings can not effect your alignment nor effect the ability to align your KJ.

RespectMyLibertay · **Posted:** Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:11 pm

I found all three brackets and the bushings for the steering rack, all shipped to my door for $160, but haven't bought anything yet. How hard will it be to drop the diff and replace the brackets? Time-figure?
Take off the wheels, disconnect the UBJs and tie-rods, take out the hubs, compress the strut assemblies and disconnect the clevis's from the LCAs to take out the CV axles. Then disconnect the front driveshaft, take out the axle, put new brackets on, bolt it back up into place then put it all back together and get a darn alignment already! Sound right???
I'll end up replacing my inner tie-rod ends and/or the rack bushings while it's all apart, assuming I go through with this.

Jeepjeepster · **Posted:** Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:32 pm

tjkj2002 wrote:

Bushings are not covered under the powertrain warrenty since they are a wear item,heck the water pump is not even covered un der the powertrain warrenty.

There are a few guys on here that have gotten the water pump covered under the power train warranty. Ive never heard of anyone being denied that work.

Tjkj is right, the diff has nothing to do with an alignment. You need to find another shop to do your work.

I would allow a FULL day to get the front diff out and back in. Ask Tommud. :lol:

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:46 pm

RespectMyLibertay wrote:

I found all three brackets and the bushings for the steering rack, all shipped to my door for $160, but haven't bought anything yet. How hard will it be to drop the diff and replace the brackets? Time-figure?
Take off the wheels, disconnect the UBJs and tie-rods, take out the hubs, compress the strut assemblies and disconnect the clevis's from the LCAs to take out the CV axles. Then disconnect the front driveshaft, take out the axle, put new brackets on, bolt it back up into place then put it all back together and get a darn alignment already! Sound right???
I'll end up replacing my inner tie-rod ends and/or the rack bushings while it's all apart, assuming I go through with this.

Your looking at a all day project for the rack bushings alone.

The drivers side and front diff bracket needs no disassembly of the suspension but the front skid needs to be removed,the passenger side braket needs the CV removed.The inner/outer tie-rods are easy,the inners are even easier if you have the special too;s to remove/install them.

tommudd · **Posted:** Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:53 pm

Tjkj is right, the diff has nothing to do with an alignment. You need to find another shop to do your work.

I would allow a FULL day to get the front diff out and back in. Ask Tommud. [/quote]

Find a shop that really knows what they are doing, ask them first to make sure they have worked on KJs etc. . I have been under quite a few KJs that have always been in Ohio and have never seen any bad enough yet to replace the bushings or do what they are saying. Something maybe wrong but ....well find a good shop first.
As far as R&R the front , yes if you have not done one then allow 6/7 hours, but its not at all hard at all to do. I could do one on the trail now if need be if that helps any.
Tom

RespectMyLibertay · **Posted:** Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:06 pm

What takes so long with the rack bushings? Like I said, I'm not sure what needs to be replaced in the steering, hopefully it's just the inner rods since I already have them.
That's real nice about the one CV axle since that'll mean I'll only have to deal with the spring compressors once.
As much as this pisses me off real bad, this is looking a lot brighter than it was this afternoon. Thanks guys! Seems like time and sweat will be the only issues.

tommudd · **Posted:** Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:11 am

Spring compressors ??? What are you using them for ? Shouldnt need any for what you need to do, heck we changed out the front diff on jerbachers and never took the spring / strut assembly out.

RespectMyLibertay · **Posted:** Mon Dec 31, 2007 3:40 pm

Do you just remove the clevis from the LCA, then from the strut assembly, and let it just spring down? I've always that that would hit the CV axle during the pop.

Jeepjeepster · **Posted:** Mon Dec 31, 2007 7:14 pm

RespectMyLibertay · **Posted:** Mon Dec 31, 2007 8:01 pm

OK The picture helps but I'd like a little more definite answer about a, what 300 lb. spring that could take my hand off. What is actually done first to not need spring compressors? Obviously disconnect the UCA, tie-rod end, and take off the whole knuckle deal. But do you just disconnect the clevis from the LCA or loosen the strut-end of the clevis and kick the LCA down with the clevis still attached? Neither sounded like a good idea to me which is why I used spring compressors, but if you guys are saying I can indeed do that I would definitely like to make this easier.

tommudd · **Posted:** Mon Dec 31, 2007 8:27 pm

Picture jeepster posted is of when I (we) did jerbachers front diff, Popped the upper control arm off, the tie rod end, lower ball joint , took the clevis off the bottom of the strut assembly and thats about it, took off brake calipers, knuckle of course, spring will not come loose its all fastened together by the strut assembly. In order to remove the front diff the left side lower control arm needs to come off the right side you just remove the front cam bolt and remove it.

I guess I should sit down and do a write up on this soon. Any questions PM me and I will help you through it and even give you my cell if you want to talk about it
I am here at your service :lol:

Tom

Mechanic says "front diff moving"!? (please help)

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