Help me get over the paranoia!!

Pote · **Posted:** Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:21 pm

Do any of you guys beat yourself up over getting routine maintenance done?? I am at 70K on my 03 sport...I am the second owner. Let me first say this Jeep runs like a dream and has absolutely no strange sounds, no hiccups whatsoever but I am itching to get all the diffs, tranny and T-case fluids changed over to synth. I have no idea if the original owner (a 3 year lease vehicle) did the maintenance required while they had it. I took ownership at right around 55K miles and have put on about 15K...and every time I look at my odometer, I'm reminded that the fluids "SHOULD" have been swapped at 60K. :shock:

So getting back to my question/paranoia...I'm one of those skeptical guys of our beloved local 'fix-em" shops let alone dealers...I wont go to them....imagine that. anyhow, I have ingrained in my brain that if it aint broke, dont fix it and I hear the horror stories of how people's Jeeps ran perfectly until they went in for a routine scheduled maintenance and pandora'x box was opened...from not doing the work correctly, to stripping threads, to leaks, to additional engine/tranny problems AFTER a maintenance visit. I don't tow (neither did the previous owner) and I rarely get offroad, so as a DD driver that is humming along like its brand new, how do I get over the paranoia hump and trust that my local guys who have been doing my synth oil changes, that they will do me right...I know many of you will say to go ahead and do my own change, but I dont have the goods, garage and tools to tackle it right now....

I know I'm being silly, but this KJ runs sooooo good right now I hate to mess with success, but my common sense is screaming at me to get those fluids changed before I hit 75K miles... Is my thinking flawed? I am so worried that opening things up will also open up chances for something to go wrong...am I worse off still driving on what "could be" the original fluids, or worse off just letting my local mechanic tackle it an hope he does it right...again, my concerns stems from the fact that my KJ is purring along like a kitten...and I only find myself in 4x4 in slick winter weather and not out on the rocks like many of you. The system does not get taxed that much as I primarily rack up 99% of its miles on the highway. What to do.

I'm fully preparred for the "buck up and get it done" responses, but are there any of you that think I shouldn't mess with this KJs fluids yet? I know I know....it NEEDS to be done, but the KJ sure doesn't let me know it by its perfect driving and smooth as silk running.

Let me add that I sure as heck would like to do this myself but for the reasons above can't...maybe some of you NE Ohio guys do it yourself and would like to lend a fellow KJ-er a hand in showing him how...regardsless, I need a little push to send me in the right direction.

WoodysKJ · **Posted:** Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:51 pm

The synthetic switch should have been done a long time ago. Around NEW or under 25,000 miles.

Doing it now will only increrase the chances of finding leaks and issues. Keep it on Fissil based oils. Beside unless you drive in like a fleet car, (25,000+ a year) synthetic don't do anything except drain your wallet.

JMHO.

Do regular maintenance but with the type of lubes you currently have in the KJ. Forget the Synthetics.

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:40 pm

2 points
1st - I tend to agree that if you're going to have a shop do work - you need to find a good shop - I've tried several with different vehicles and while I haven't found any that are flat out crooks - I have found many that aren't technically competent even if they have their certifications. They know how to run the equipment - but they don't know how to think through a problem. And the guys that only get paid minimum wage to change oil - should never touch a vehicle you want to keep.
2nd - Maintenance is important, all oils will breakdown from heat and will built up contaminants - both will cause wear to bearing surfaces, and transmission clutches wear shedding particles. So unless your 70K was driving though an airconditioned cleanroom with the trans in lockup - you need to change fluids on some basis - The factory recommendations do tend to be averages for what kind of driving they expect - but unless you're pulling regular samples for analysis - you don't have any other guidelines.

scarletbegonias · **Posted:** Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:46 pm

sounds similar to my situation...I bought it at 57K off a 4-yr lease and it has been smoothly-purring since day1 of purchase. at 64k I got the required (60k) overhaul, you know..fluids, hoses, belts, spark plug, oil, the works. Well it still runs and sounds just as it did prior to getting everything done so I would say just do it! (well, with the exception of the a$$hole that changed my oil..he didn't tighten the drain cap enough and it kept peeing a little :shock:

luckily not too much tho before I pin-pointed the leak. I really reemed the guy out too about it (that was kinf of fun!) but geesh, "professionals" :roll:

you would think...

WoodysKJ · **Posted:** Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:37 pm

ATXKJ wrote:

2 points
1st - I tend to agree that if you're going to have a shop do work - you need to find a good shop - I've tried several with different vehicles and while I haven't found any that are flat out crooks - I have found many that aren't technically competent even if they have their certifications. They know how to run the equipment - but they don't know how to think through a problem. And the guys that only get paid minimum wage to change oil - should never touch a vehicle you want to keep.
2nd - Maintenance is important, all oils will breakdown from heat and will built up contaminants - both will cause wear to bearing surfaces, and transmission clutches wear shedding particles. So unless your 70K was driving though an airconditioned cleanroom with the trans in lockup - you need to change fluids on some basis - The factory recommendations do tend to be averages for what kind of driving they expect - but unless you're pulling regular samples for analysis - you don't have any other guidelines.

I agree with this except the whole point is to avoid problems in the first place and Switching a moderately to hiugh milage engine and drive train over is just asking for some problems. Stuff just cleans out all the funk and in many cases on mod. to high milage engines and drivetrains you find leaks.

JJsTJ · **Posted:** Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:48 pm

I have switched many moderate to higher mileage older vehicles over to Synthetics and experienced No leaking unless it was already there before and even had one customers rear main leak get better after switiching. I attribute that to the full syns additives that condition seals and it must have swelled it just enough to slow the leak some. My 150+ K Cherokee responded fine to full syn and no leaks to this day after about 35K w/ syn.

On OLD vehicles that had worse seal technology than more recent vehicles it Could be a problem but as mentioned, usually only if the seals/gaskets had issues to begin with. I wouldn't worry abot a newer vehicle having leak problems and the benefits of full syns can be realized on any vehhicle regardless of mileage.

Jeepjeepster · **Posted:** Thu Mar 27, 2008 3:41 pm

I wouldnt worry about it pote.

Just get the oils changed and be done with it.

Im not a fan of tranny flushes. I usually just drop the pan.

bugnout · **Posted:** Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:17 pm

I"m paranoid as well, won't trust my beast to just anyone. Anyplace that won't let you talk to the mechanics is definitely out. Avoid the fluid change places and the muffler shops. Gas stations that still do service are a possibility, small garages with a couple of mechanics usually make their reputation off the quality of work. Ask at the local napa store who they recommend.

I know you said you didn't have the tools, garage etc. to do the work yourself, but you'd be surprised at how easy this is to do. Once you do this, you'll be ready to tackle the diff fluid changes.

Oil change should only take about an hour including cleanup. You need a couple of hand tools, Oil and filter. Well worth the satisfaction of doing yourself. Don't buy a tool set, just buy the exact tools you need to really see the payoff. I have a CRD so I don't know what size the drain plug is, maybe someone else here could chime in.

Drain pan to hold about 6 quarts - nothing fancy, walmart <$5
wrench for the drain plug Walmart <$5
oil filter wrench/strap Walmart <$5

just remember right is tight, left is loose when removing drain plug and filter. (clockwise is tight, counter is loose when your looking at the head of the bolt or end of the filter)

Buy your oil in the gallon jug or save a gallon milk jug to put the used oil in. Drop it off at autozone or napa and your done.

Rush345 · **Posted:** Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:55 pm

I agree with JJsKJ. When I bought my 2002 KJ in 2006 the first thing I did was convert the whole Jeep made synthetic from bumper to bumper. It was just getting ready to roll to 90,000. Still no leaks and purrs like a kitten. Matter of fact, by performing this task right after purchase I found a leaky radiator, and a gernaiding rear differential. So I found all the things that were wrong within the first 2 weeks of ownership and had everything fixed under warranty. Synthetic is one of the best things you can do for your Jeep

Pablo · **Joined:** Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:06 pm **Posts:** 1201

You could always just do it yourself (at least the fluid changes).

tommudd · **Posted:** Fri Mar 28, 2008 12:48 am

go ahead and switch everything over to full synthetics, I have done it to other vehicles with no problems, easy to do we can walk you through it no problems, if you need help give me a shout!
Know waht you mean about starting something since it runs so well now, thats why I have new belt, brake pads, etc laying in the garage nothings broke so not fixing it! :lol:

But fluid changes are different, do them

Pote · **Posted:** Sun Mar 30, 2008 11:25 am

thanks guys...you all rock. well dgnabit...now you threw a wrench into my already paranoid thought process...don't go synth...go synth!!! argh..... I think I am leaning towards synth, but can you guys explain what is NOT good about going to synth this far into the mileage? what happens to enable leaks to show up? is it due to the viscosity? or the seals and such being saturated with regular oil?

Dang....I'm going to look hard at doing this myself. Could really use a hand from a NE Ohio LOST guys (hint hint HINT!!!!! - LOL) I am not a mechanical idiot and can swing a wrench when I need to, I guess I just need some extra essentials as stated above. what are the best type of "economical" stands to jack my KJ up and keep it there while changing? I see the cheapie oil drain pans...I have basic tools and sockets, and now that its getting nicer outside, I guess a garage is not absolute and the driveway will suffice..this would probably be a good time to also do the spark plugs. I just read a thread of the amazing improvement TJKJ got from changing all his fluids and doing a tuneup...that and all you guys are making me feel a bit better about just sucking it up and getting it done. or doing it myself.

anyhow, again,thanks for the replies...isn't it just a shame that it boils down to responsible consumers (that be us) not trusting mechanics as far as we can throw them...just lame that a GOOD mechanic is about as hard to find as a needle in a haystack!!! :shock:

WoodysKJ · **Posted:** Sun Mar 30, 2008 11:45 am

My previous experience with synthetics on OLDER or high to med. milage vehicles is that the detergants and cleaners in the synthetics clean the internal parts so well and disolve the leak sealing sludge then the leaks show up as a result.

Not sure about the newer versions and their ability to improve the seals. Just know that when synthetics hit the market many people thought it was a way to add life to an old car (as advertised) and found out the hard way that it showed previously hidden problems.

I do not plan to switch my new KJ or my wifes. I have a friend who is an automotive engineer and builds fleet trucks for the state and city govt.'s. He says that it is of NO benefit and only costs more money. UNLESS you are using it in vehicles that run hard (i.e. fleet vehicles who put on HIGH milage in a year or in extreme conditions) and then you need to basicly start the vehicle out that way, not switch in mid stream. He says they are great for extending the service intervals on the fleet vehilces, which saves the govts money in the long run, but for a daily driver family car it is basicly a waste of time and money.

KJ04 · **Posted:** Sun Mar 30, 2008 2:44 pm

Pote wrote:

thanks guys...you all rock. well dgnabit...now you threw a wrench into my already paranoid thought process...don't go synth...go synth!!! argh..... I think I am leaning towards synth, but can you guys explain what is NOT good about going to synth this far into the mileage? what happens to enable leaks to show up? is it due to the viscosity? or the seals and such being saturated with regular oil?

Dang....I'm going to look hard at doing this myself. Could really use a hand from a NE Ohio LOST guys (hint hint HINT!!!!! - LOL) I am not a mechanical idiot and can swing a wrench when I need to, I guess I just need some extra essentials as stated above. what are the best type of "economical" stands to jack my KJ up and keep it there while changing? I see the cheapie oil drain pans...I have basic tools and sockets, and now that its getting nicer outside, I guess a garage is not absolute and the driveway will suffice..this would probably be a good time to also do the spark plugs. I just read a thread of the amazing improvement TJKJ got from changing all his fluids and doing a tuneup...that and all you guys are making me feel a bit better about just sucking it up and getting it done. or doing it myself.

anyhow, again,thanks for the replies...isn't it just a shame that it boils down to responsible consumers (that be us) not trusting mechanics as far as we can throw them...just lame that a GOOD mechanic is about as hard to find as a needle in a haystack!!! :shock:

So, where are you in NE Ohio?

For just changing fluids I just use my car ramps. A set of cheap Wal-Mart car ramps will suffice and is easier than jacking and using jackstands. You'll also want to get a plastic hand pump from an auto parts store that screws on the gallon jug to pump the gear oil in the differentials for around $10.00.

Save up for a SUV-Pick-up 2 1/2 ton floor jack that raises to 21" and jack stands later. I just got a new 2 1/2 ton floor jack from Advance Auto for $54.00. Jackstands can be had for $10.00 ea..

WoodysKJ · **Posted:** Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:28 pm

on another post earlier there was a Hilift All cast 48" jack from Tractor Sulpply for 48.00

BUT what I found on the TSC website were 6 TON jack stands for 9.95 EACH.

Hell of a deal, Tall and 6 ton rated. My little 2 ton jobbers are useless since my OME lift.

Anybody wanna buy a pair of 2 ton Jack Stands?

C co Crusader 2/127 · **Posted:** Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:39 pm

JJsKJ wrote:

I have switched many moderate to higher mileage older vehicles over to Synthetics and experienced No leaking unless it was already there before and even had one customers rear main leak get better after switiching. I attribute that to the full syns additives that condition seals and it must have swelled it just enough to slow the leak some. My 150+ K Cherokee responded fine to full syn and no leaks to this day after about 35K w/ syn.

On OLD vehicles that had worse seal technology than more recent vehicles it Could be a problem but as mentioned, usually only if the seals/gaskets had issues to begin with. I wouldn't worry abot a newer vehicle having leak problems and the benefits of full syns can be realized on any vehhicle regardless of mileage.

it goes like jj said. maby 10 15 years ago a vehicle MAY(keyword) have had a problem with the switch. but now witht he quility of oils and seals it really doesnt make a difference.

Help me get over the paranoia!!

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