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Hella 500FF wires heating up?
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=32037		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Crazygade [ Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Hella 500FF wires heating up?
I just installed a pair of Hella 500FF's on my Liberty. I used the supplied wires that came with the kit.

I have to admit losing patience with the whole relay and live wire on the high beam so I did the following: I ran the live wire via the provided green switch directly to the + terminal of the battery with the fuse between the + terminal and the switch. It runs directly off the battery with no relay.

Wires and fuse get super hot... Is this normal or does the relay have something to do with keeping amperage/heat down?



Thanks! :?:
Author:  tommudd [ Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:22 am ]
Post subject: 
need the relay in there
Author:  Wasatch15 [ Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:40 am ]
Post subject: 
Relay is just a switch closed by magnetic force, the contact rating of the relay and wire have to be rated for the current you are trying to run through them. If not, they heat up so your only choice is to increase the wire size and make sure the relay contact is rated for your application.

Ron
Author:  WoodysKJ [ Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hella 500FF wires heating up?
Crazygade wrote:
I just installed a pair of Hella 500FF's on my Liberty. I used the supplied wires that came with the kit.

I have to admit losing patience with the whole relay and live wire on the high beam so I did the following: I ran the live wire via the provided green switch directly to the + terminal of the battery with the fuse between the + terminal and the switch. It runs directly off the battery with no relay.

Wires and fuse get super hot... Is this normal or does the relay have something to do with keeping amperage/heat down?



Thanks! :?:



This is why we read and follow the directions.

The switch and the wires and the fuse for the switch are NOT rated for that kind of current draw. you are DAMNED lucky you didn't have a nice little warranty voiding bonfire there.

Get new wire, RE-DO it correctly and don't be so lazey. I could be life threatening if you decide to cut corners next time.

Sorry to be so harsh. But I can't stand laziness. Especially when a forum like this exists to supply you with CORRECT info to do most things safetly.
Author:  tommudd [ Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:12 am ]
Post subject: 
but he stated he used the wire that came with the kit so only thing he did not do was use the Relay is that not correct? So everyone is saying the supplied wiring is the wrong guage? So Hella does send out cheap wiring kits?
Author:  Crazygade [ Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:29 am ]
Post subject: 
Thats the thing. I used the supllied wires, switches and fuse. I am just trying to figure out if the RELAY reduces the current running threw the wires to the switch and the lights. I can hold my own doing electricity in my home but this whole relay thing... does it act like a transformer? Does it cenvert the electric flow? I searched all over the forums and do not see any clear description of why it is used besides the fact it prevents the lights from staying on by accident.

I am far from lazy! hehehehehe :D
Author:  WoodysKJ [ Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:32 am ]
Post subject: 
tommudd wrote:
but he stated he used the wire that came with the kit so only thing he did not do was use the Relay is that not correct? So everyone is saying the supplied wiring is the wrong guage? So Hella does send out cheap wiring kits?


The quality of the kit is not in question.

IF you wire straight to the battery/switch/lights, I guarantee the wires to and from the switch as well as the switch itself are under rated for that wireing set-up. With copper being as high as it is and a supplied relay for the PROPER wiring, there is no need to send 12 guage wire for the whole set-up when you only need 16 or 18 for the switch to relay activation.

NOW if the whole thing is 16 or 18 ga. wire then yes there is an issue with the kit. I suspect that the wires leading OFF the relay to the lights are two (2) 14 ga. wires. If there is only one power lead from the relay to the lights, it should be at least 12 ga. to the first light then it can step down to 14 ga to the second one from the first one. I would run two seperate leads one to each light. Now the wires leading from the ground post of the relay is also at least 14 ga. the wires off the switch need to be between 18 and 14 ga. these are not designed to handle the load the lights require as they are only to activate the relay which does all the heavy lifting.

How many watts are the Hella's? 55 watts each? H3 bulbs, right?

If you direct wire the switch without the relay you are asking for trouble. no need to put that kind of power through the switch.
Author:  Crazygade [ Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:33 am ]
Post subject: 
BTW... the wires that go into the stock headlights seem to be of similar diameter as the ones Hella gas on its kits... if it is just the Relay thats my problem then I will redo it all tonight...

I just did not want to tap into the high beams. Any ''easy to reach'' suggestions as to where to tap into the hot wire? (stock fog lights maybe?) :roll:
Author:  Crazygade [ Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:35 am ]
Post subject: 
2x 55Watts H3 yes...
Author:  WoodysKJ [ Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:42 am ]
Post subject: 
Crazygade wrote:
BTW... the wires that go into the stock headlights seem to be of similar diameter as the ones Hella gas on its kits... if it is just the Relay thats my problem then I will redo it all tonight...

I just did not want to tap into the high beams. Any ''easy to reach'' suggestions as to where to tap into the hot wire? (stock fog lights maybe?) :roll:


You do not even need to TAP into the other lights, unless local law requires it. That is so they only come on when the high beams or fog lights come on. AND that should not be your main sourse of power. Run the MAIN power straight off the battery, NOT the lights.

Okay here is the deal.

Mount the relay under the hood next to the battery on the fender. Run the One wire off the relay to the switch into the cabin through the firewall. There will be 3 wires needed for the switch (if iluminated) One is a ground which you can find inside the cabin. other is a source of positive power you can pigtail off the fuse block. This is the source for the switch that they say to run off the headlight/highbeam or fog lights. This gives power to the switch that then activates the relay. In some states and locallities they can ONLY be wires so they come on with the Highbeams. I have mine wired so i can use them ANYTIME i want to.

run the one or two wires to the lights (positive from the relay). There sjould be two more leads off the relay. One is a ground. I ran that either to the negative terminal of the battery OR just screw it to the fender UNDER the relay when you mount it. the last one is the MAIN power feed to the lights through the relay.
Author:  WoodysKJ [ Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:49 am ]
Post subject: 
This is a confusing thing to the first timer.

But not that big of a install.

Just take your time and think about it FIRST!

The main components are:

Lights
Switch
Relay

The lights are the heavy hitters. They draw a few amps, not too bad but way more than your turn signals.
The switch is only intended to allow you the convience of controlling the lights from inside the cabin
the relay is the work horse, that only does what and when you tell it to by flipping the switch.

Esentially you have 2 switches. One you personally activate and that one tells the other (the relay) to throw power to the lights in a controlled safe and propperly rated manner.

Sit and read the diagram that came with the lights. This part is important; UNDERSTAND WHAT EACH ITEM DOES. before installing. call someone, post here like you did.

not that big a deal to do, but can really screw things up if done improprely.
Author:  tommudd [ Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:57 am ]
Post subject: 
good job Woodys

Thanks for helping him out
Author:  WoodysKJ [ Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:11 am ]
Post subject: 
Okay,

at the risk of further confusing you and others...
here is a diagram for wiring your lights.

Image

disregard the wire colors on the diagram as i would bet they are different then the wires in your kit. The concept is all there. I would also advise to run a good solid ground FROM the lights back to the battery. This diagram does not do that. It ties just to a good body ground which is fine for H3 55 watts lights, but I would do that, others might not and not a priority. Anything larger then you should run a solid ground to the battery, just safer.

I added the 87a terminal on your relay, as i suspect there are five posts on the relay you have and not 4 as this diagram originally showed.

study this and compare it to the one you have and translate the wire colors you have. IF you still have questions, ask. now is the time. not when your local fire department is standing there with a booster line saying "Have any idea how this happened?"

Good luck and enjoy the lights AND the knowlage and pride you have gained from installing the correctly.

P.S. once you learn how to do it, this WILL NOT be your last set of lights.

Evidence:
Image
Author:  Jeepjeepster [ Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
Crazygade wrote:
Thats the thing. I used the supllied wires, switches and fuse. I am just trying to figure out if the RELAY reduces the current running threw the wires to the switch and the lights. I can hold my own doing electricity in my home but this whole relay thing... does it act like a transformer? Does it cenvert the electric flow? I searched all over the forums and do not see any clear description of why it is used besides the fact it prevents the lights from staying on by accident.

I am far from lazy! hehehehehe :D


Ive not read it all but the relay is not a transformer, inductor, resistor, none of that, its just a switch. When you flip the switch thats mounted inside of your Jeep it energizes the relay. The relay is able to handle the current while the wiring going to the switch and the switch on the inside is not able to. The only current thats going inside of the Jeep is the current it takes to energize the relay which is very, very little.

Go ahead and put the relay in the circuit. You do not need to splice a wire into the headlights, you can splice it into anything with +12v. The reason they want you to use the brightlight wire is so you cannot use the hellas without using the bright lights. Make sense?
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